[Needles]

Okay! I apologize in advance for trodding this well-worn path but I cannot seem to find a relatively recent thread concerning this issue, and with Win 7 now settled in and with up-to-date drivers across the board, I wonder if things have changed ...?

The old debate: ASUS Essence STX versus Auzentech Forte 7.1 for the purposes of gaming in a Windows 7 environment.

Now, before you get started, I've been up and down the block on this one and still I cannot come to a conclusion. Many people immediately suggest the Forte for gaming over the STX for various reasons (primarily because gaming is the Forte's forte). I've read numerous horror stories regarding the STX's inability to handle positional audio in gaming, and the EAX emulation being the worst thing since Hitler, but the reviews and comments are showing their age. And then come the inevitable cries of "EAX is dead/dying" and "if you don't use surround sound, don't bother with Creative/Auzen", etc. etc. To add to my puzzlement, I've even heard the STX referred to as the card to have for headphone gaming, based solely on the reviewers love for Dolby Headphone! So ... yeah. I'm confused. As soon as I'm convinced of a general consensus crowning the Forte as the obvious choice for a gaming rig, the discussion turns on a dime and suddenly the STX appears a serious contender, if not the obvious choice.

Some personal specifics, for your consideration:

1. Current soundcard: Creative X-fi Xtremegamer Fatal1ty Pro (not Titanium) complete w/ useless X-RAM and e-peen enhancing LED logo!!1

2. I game with headphones 99.9% of the time. I've been using a pair of mid-range gaming phones up to this point but a pair of Denon AH-D2000's are currently en route (should be here by the end of the weak). I now want/need amplification, hence my research into the STX/Forte to replace my Xtremegamer. I'm not expecting a huge SQ improvement versus the Xtremegamer but providing my new cans with headphone out amp is a key consideration (and ultimately the area I'm hoping will yield the greatest gains to overall listening enjoyment). I have heard rumblings that the amp on the Auzentech is superior to the ASUS.

3. I "enjoyed" Vista for years and recently made the switch to Windows 7 (love it so far). I would consider myself a hardcore gamer but I've NEVER once had Alchemy installed on my rig. So EAX? No so much a huge consideration for me. Hell, maybe the STX's emulation would be a marked improvement, coming from a Alchemy-free environment! Also, X-RAM is a non-issue. I do make extensive use of CMSS-3D, however. I don't mind it, seems to do a good job. Positional audio is extremely important to me. I've never experienced Dolby Headphone and reviews are mixed.

4. My rig is very capable. In terms of the STX not accelerating gaming audio, I run a Q9550 quad core processor. I'm not overly worried if the Essence requires more juice than the Forte (of course, I do prefer the idea of dedicated audio processing on the Auzentech). According to reviews, frames per second appear close if not identical when comparing the STX to the Forte.

5. I do listen to music, but not as often as I game and watch movies on my PC. I realize the STX is the crown prince when it comes to music, but that's not really a huge consideration for me.

6. The cost difference between the two cards has no impact on my decision. I'd be happy to save cash with the Forte, but beyond that money is not an issue.

7. Yes, I'm a gamer, and while I hesitate to label myself a full-fledged audiophile, I do have a very sensitive ear and cannot abide poor quality audio. I can readily appreciate the difference between good highs, mids and lows, tight/muddy bass, etc.

Have there been any new revelations/realizations with regard to this debate? Have new drivers shifted the general consensus one way or another? More to the point, IS there a general consensus? Considering my personal specifics, what do the Head-Fi gurus suggest? Thanks for reading!

 

[somestranger26]

Windows 7 and not using ALchemy? ASUS.

 

[Necrolic]

In different categories, here are the winners (basing this on STX vs. HTHD, the hardware on Forte and HTHD is essentially identical, so it's the same thing).

SQ: Forte by a long shot
Headphone support: Forte again by a long shot
Versatility: Toss up
Positional Audio (for gaming): Forte again by a long shot
Driver Support: Forte (just because Asus is such a pain to find the drivers for and get them set up)

In short, Forte is a LOT better.

EDIT: Don't listen to the above guy, positional audio on the Asus absolutely blows.

 

[Needles]

Well. I might do a reversal on the whole Alchemy thing. I never bothered to pick it up when it was first trotted out and as a result I got used to EAX-less gaming. I'm not morally opposed to Alchemy or anything ... just lazy.

EDIT: That said, I cannot find any mention of Alchemy working with Windows 7 + Forte. Apparently the Win 7 Prelude drivers come bundled with Alchemy, but there is no mention of it with regard to the Forte or the HTHD.

 

[leeperry]

yes, there's a huge Asus community that likes to rub each other in the back on this forum(not counting ppl who have commercial interests

)...the Auzen cards carry discrete headphones amps, automatically bit-matched/bitperfect drivers over ASIO(Asus doesn't support any of this, there's a fixed sample rate in the drivers that will resample everything..end of story) and for games, the X-Fi chips are a no-brainer...games like Q3 really stinked on the STX.

 

[ear8dmg]

Well - I much prefer Dolby Headphone to CMSS3D headphone - So I use and X-Fi with external Dolby Headphone processor. Best of both worlds. All the X-Fi positioning (elevation, MacroFX etc) and effects (EAX) with the added spatial cues that you get on Xonar.

Gone from a Xonar D2 to an X-Fi Prelude. I realise that these are both a step down from the STX and Forte but it's the same principle.

Not installed W7 yet. I'm still on Vista.

Oh - DS3D-GX on Xonar is more of a pain to use than Alchemy in the long term. It has no game profile function so you have to change settings for each game every time you move from a game that requires it to one that doesn't. There are a lot of older games where it doesn't work with EAX..

 

[RallyMaster]

This thread is relevant to my interests. Considering I game a lot as well and listen to music, I think the X-Fi Forte might just be my next purchase.

 

[Needles]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ear8dmg /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well - I much prefer Dolby Headphone to CMSS3D headphone - So I use and X-Fi with external Dolby Headphone processor. Best of both worlds. All the X-Fi positioning (elevation, MacroFX etc) and effects (EAX) with the added spatial cues that you get on Xonar.

Ooooh. That sounds hot. What brand of processor are you using? How much? I'm gonna be honest, I had no idea such a thing even existed ... but it sounds magical ...

I'm definitely a "best of both worlds" kind of guy. I'd love to try something similar with my current X-fi card, if only to gauge the differences between straight CMSS-3D, Dolby Headphone and a combination of the two. If it pans out, I'd almost certainly pull the trigger on a Forte and keep my fingers crossed for eventual Windows 7 EAX support (not that I'm holding my breath, nor will I miss it should it never appear).

EDIT: Something like this?

 

[ROBSCIX]

Without getting into a long post, For Gaming the Auzentech cards are the way to go...

 

[ROBSCIX]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Needles /img/forum/go_quote.gif Ooooh. That sounds hot. What brand of processor are you using? How much? I'm gonna be honest, I had no idea such a thing even existed ... but it sounds magical ... I'm definitely a "best of both worlds" kind of guy. I'd love to try something similar with my current X-fi card, if only to gauge the differences between straight CMSS-3D, Dolby Headphone and a combination of the two. If it pans out, I'd almost certainly pull the trigger on a Forte and keep my fingers crossed for eventual Windows 7 EAX support (not that I'm holding my breath, nor will I miss it should it never appear). EDIT: Something like this?

I do you one better. A while back a few of us developed the Velbac application. This let you use two card and link them internally.
The whole idea was you could use a Creative card for the processor and another card for the output card.
The CL card does all the gaming audio processing and the audio is intercepted in digital form and sent to the output card.

So for instance, you could use a X-Fi X-Music and a X-Meridian 7.1 and have all the gaming features of the X-Fi chip and all the features and sound quality of the X-Meridian 7.1. There are many different configurations for this application but you see the idea as the application was written for gaming. The idea was to have all the features of the gaming card but have much higher sound quality then what was available from any one card.

Funny what you wrote, originally this application was called BOBW.....which meant the Best of Both Worlds. The applications worked perfect on XP and Vista but personally, I haven't had time to test it on Win7. Actually, I have been wanting to set the system back up...maybe I will give it a go tomorrow.

 

[Needles]

Wow, damn. That sounds interesting, ROBSCIX. So, you mean to say one could grab an STX and have an X-fi (such as my XtremeGamer) on the backburner for gaming purposes? That would be the ultimate, having the Essence for all-purpose listening and the X-fi there to power games, offer EAX for supported titles and provide proper positional audio. Veeeeery interesting ...

Of course, I'd have to be 110% certain your app was fully functional under Win 7 with all makes and models of sound card, otherwise I'd be a tad hesitant to drop coin on something as high end as the ASUS Essence. Even so, it sounds like a potential wet dream.

 

[ROBSCIX]

It was released before the Prelude came out. I always used it with a X-Meridian 7.1 for output.
You should be able to use any card for output...The idea is the software need a hardware gaming card also. I just mentioned it as it may have issues in Win7.
I have not tested it on that OS yet, so I cannot give that recommendation. I was just mentioning it for sake of conversation.

If I had to go with only one gaming card though I would take one of the Auzentech cards. Prelude, Forte, HTHD .7.1

 

[ROBSCIX]

To note, if you have the cash there are also quite a few guys in this fourm that have gaming cards connrcted to external DAC/Amps through S/Pdif.

This gives you all the effects and supports of the gaming card and the improved quality of the higher end DAC/amp.

You could always use the card you have and just add an external DAC/Amp on the S/Pdif output of your card. Would be amazing for headphones....

 

[Needles]

That would be the ideal. As it stand, though, while I do have *some* money burning a hole in my pocket, I can't say there's enough spare change to justify the purchase of a DAC/Amp. Seems sound card headphone out amplification is the cheapest route - and likely more than enough to power my 25 ohm Denon's. Even if I were then to buy an external solution to add Dolby Headphone to the mix, I'd still likely be coming in cheaper than a DAC/Amp (I think). Thanks for your input! It's looking more and more like I'll being picking up a Forte in the new future. If I thought the HTHD had any benefit other than HDMI out, I'd be considering that, as well.

 

[ROBSCIX]

The compass DAC/amps seem to be used quite a bit with soundcards...so that might be an option. I don't know your budget but if you think a card is the best way to go....Grab an Auzentech card. If you really want Dolby headphone buy a cheap card that has the features and digital input and conenct them up with S/pdif..