[TSAVJason]

I've been following this thread via email again. Ok so rutter rubs people the wrong way. But he wasn't entirely wrong IMO. If I gave my honest 2 cents, I'd be disappointed too that a $4K set didn't wow me. If the demo is indeed using the wrong amp, they need to remedy that situation ASAP. But I've learned to also listen to headphones more than once to realize their benefits so I can't fault him for going back for a second try. Sometimes snap judgements or first impressions aren't the best or most accurate. I've had a few sets wow me right away though and believe it or not, those were not higher end sets. When using higher end, I do become more critical of a listener and start picking apart details. I don't think rutter was wrong to be more critical of a $4K set. If you're spending that kind of money, you'd better like it! If you demo the Utopia again under circumstances that you prefer and still don't like them, so be it. It just wasn't for you.

However, I also agree that hearing is subjective because taste and preferences can change, along with age. It's not BS when you think about it. I hate sibilance but some people seem to prefer it. I used to be a bass head but now if I hear way too much bass, I reduce it. I still love bass, just don't need to feel it reverberating on my ears or equipment. I also don't want it drowning out other frequencies. Thus some sets that I liked now need to go. I also learned that too neutral is a no go for me, but others swear neutral is best. I think you also need to figure out what your sound preference is and what you expected to get out of the Utopia.

Someone said these forums don't exist to guide you to the perfect headphone. Not exactly true IMO. I've received lots of guidance. It's just that "perfect" is also subjective. It's what's perfect for you. You really do need to try out sets for yourself. Sometimes it's trial and error but that's what makes the hobby interesting right?

Just a thought but if a product costs more than you feel is the right value, doesn’t that mean you shouldn’t buy it? It seems odd to me that a person decides the value of a product by how much they care to budget. It’s a little like saying I feel the Utopia is worth $500 because I like the Sennheiser 660. To me the answer is “than buy the 660”. The conflict you and he show toward the price seems to be saying you don’t agree with the price. If that is the case, take them off your list until your quality and price point are met by whatever manufacturer you like.

Doesn’t that make more sense?

 

[DivaFonda]

I didn't say I didn't agree with the price. Not sure where you read that.

What I said was I'm going to be more critical when spending $4K on a set. I'm going to be judging build quality, sound quality, etc. much more than a $300 set.

 

[tekkster]

I've been following this thread via email again. Ok so rutter rubs people the wrong way. But he wasn't entirely wrong IMO. If I gave my honest 2 cents, I'd be disappointed too that a $4K set didn't wow me. If the demo is indeed using the wrong amp, they need to remedy that situation ASAP. But I've learned to also listen to headphones more than once to realize their benefits so I can't fault him for going back for a second try. Sometimes snap judgements or first impressions aren't the best or most accurate. I've had a few sets wow me right away though and believe it or not, those were not higher end sets. When using higher end, I do become more critical of a listener and start picking apart details. I don't think rutter was wrong to be more critical of a $4K set. If you're spending that kind of money, you'd better like it! If you demo the Utopia again under circumstances that you prefer and still don't like them, so be it. It just wasn't for you.

However, I also agree that hearing is subjective because taste and preferences can change, along with age. It's not BS when you think about it. I hate sibilance but some people seem to prefer it. I used to be a bass head but now if I hear way too much bass, I reduce it. I still love bass, just don't need to feel it reverberating on my ears or equipment. I also don't want it drowning out other frequencies. Thus some sets that I liked now need to go. I also learned that too neutral is a no go for me, but others swear neutral is best. I think you also need to figure out what your sound preference is and what you expected to get out of the Utopia.

Someone said these forums don't exist to guide you to the perfect headphone. Not exactly true IMO. I've received lots of guidance. It's just that "perfect" is also subjective. It's what's perfect for you. You really do need to try out sets for yourself. Sometimes it's trial and error but that's what makes the hobby interesting right?

His comment didn't bother me or "rub [me] the wrong way"

I thought his reaction to the Focal line was sincere. I just didn't think it was worth questioning one's self just because one's own experience didn't match the overwhelmingly positive reviews that were out there.
I still don't, not really. The examples I gave are meant to illustrate my support of anyone who tries something out and finds he or she disagrees with the overwhelming majority view on a product.

To each their own.

And I conceded, after my first response, that, okay, maybe it does make sense to go again as it's possible, when I think about it, that music stores might not have idea setups.

No harm, no foul

 

[TSAVJason]

I didn't say I didn't agree with the price. Not sure where you read that.

What I said was I'm going to be more critical when spending $4K on a set. I'm going to be judging build quality, sound quality, etc. much more than a $300 set.

Good then we agree. I think no matter how much you spend you should take the time to be a smart buyer. I don’t agree with his perspective and I found him very antagonistic to some very nice members trying to offer up suggestions but he preferred to get nasty with them. Sorry but I don’t think getting nasty with anyone here is appropriate.

 

[DivaFonda]

I get the feeling he believes some audiophiles are pretentious and name droppers. I found the email with the original post before the mod edited it and that's the impression I got when he said can you identify your favorite sets blindly without their names(something like that). I have to say that I'm guilty sometimes of buying sets because of the name or hype, but if it sucks, it's going back. It will stay if I truly like it.

 

[dontfeedphils]

Good then we agree. I think no matter how much you spend you should take the time to be a smart buyer. I don’t agree with his perspective and I found him very antagonistic to some very nice members trying to offer up suggestions but he preferred to get nasty with them. Sorry but I don’t think getting nasty with anyone here is appropriate.

Ditto. Give respect and you'll receive respect. The sort of lessons we learn in early grade school.

 

[PeteSTRADAMUS]

Holy moly, The Utopia forum battle rages on lmao. Here is my statement to put a stalemate on all these arguments, The "UTOPIA" is the best thing since sliced bread if the bread isn't your choice than sliced meatballs. If you don't agree then you saw that Cure car insurance commercial right? You get the point...

 

[PeteSTRADAMUS]

Happy to have joined the Utopia fanclub. How many hours of burn-in would y'all recommend? Cheers

300+.

 

[Justin_Time]

1

Happy to have joined the Utopia fanclub. How many hours of burn-in would y'all recommend? Cheers

Not much time at all, in my experie

With new silver cables, however, it may take over 100 hours or more before the cables are broken in..

 

[Justin_Time]

His comment didn't bother me or "rub [me] the wrong way"

I thought his reaction to the Focal line was sincere. I just didn't think it was worth questioning one's self just because one's own experience didn't match the overwhelmingly positive reviews that were out there.
I still don't, not really. The examples I gave are meant to illustrate my support of anyone who tries something out and finds he or she disagrees with the overwhelming majority view on a product.

To each their own.

And I conceded, after my first response, that, okay, maybe it does make sense to go again as it's possible, when I think about it, that music stores might not have idea setups.

No harm, no foul

I did not participate in the debate but followed it closely. One key point that you may not have picked up on and that TSAVjason also pointed out was that people did not object so much to what was said, but how it was said.

Perhaps it is time we put all this to rest.

 

[tekkster]

I did not participate in the debate but followed it closely. One key point that you may not have picked up on and that TSAVjason also pointed out was that people did not object so much to what was said, but how it was said.

Perhaps it is time we put all this to rest.

Yeah, I picked up on that, but I wasn't addressing his thought on the matter, only DivaFonda's, with whom I agreed, and wanted to clarify as such.

 

[TSAVJason]

I did not participate in the debate but followed it closely. One key point that you may not have picked up on and that TSAVjason also pointed out was that people did not object so much to what was said, but how it was said.

Perhaps it is time we put all this to rest.

Yup he was real rough on people and it was clear he preferred being rough over being appreciative of the people offering suggestions. I kinda have an issue with that.

 

[up late]

I did not participate in the debate but followed it closely. One key point that you may not have picked up on and that TSAVjason also pointed out was that people did not object so much to what was said, but how it was said.

Perhaps it is time we put all this to rest.

i picked up on it and the hypocrisy is galling

 

[336881]

The biggest issue I have with the new pricing is pricing the classic totl cans into the stratosphere.

When I first started lurking here the R10, Original Omega and even the Orpheus were in the new pricing $4-5k range. Now not so much. Started with the sr-009 in 2011 and has only gotten worse imo.

Compared to its speaker brethren there are waaaaay better deals to be had. My APM-4 speakers are more rare, expensive, and have more time with inflation than the R10. Set me back $4k with shipping and I over paid. The owner before me got them in 2013 from Canada for around $2k.

 

[ubs28]

The biggest issue I have with the new pricing is pricing the classic totl cans into the stratosphere.

When I first started lurking here the R10, Original Omega and even the Orpheus were in the new pricing $4-5k range. Now not so much. Started with the sr-009 in 2011 and has only gotten worse imo.

Compared to its speaker brethren there are waaaaay better deals to be had. My APM-4 speakers are more rare, expensive, and have more time with inflation than the R10. Set me back $4k with shipping and I over paid. The owner before me got them in 2013 from Canada for around $2k.

That is not true. Speakers don't have beryllium drivers that covers the entire frequency spectrum. So the Focal Utopia headphone is really something special, even in the speaker scene.