[TonyNewman]

Not all DACs have the proper impedance or current output to directly drive headphones from XLR line-out even if they have a volume control. I'd check with the manufacturer before considering this.

That said, I agree, at least with my DAVE (headphone out is basically driven from the line-out stage with the DAVE), that no amp is the most transparent and cleanest way to listen. Easily noticed with the Utopia.

 
Yep - I am aware. The Bricasti designer has stated that it is OK to run headphones in this way from the XLR outputs using the M1 DAC, so I am good with it.
 
That is certainly not the case for all DACs. My understanding is that the Dave has circuitry to detect this and shut the DAC down to protect it - users are meant to use the headphone jack provided.
 
Best state this out loud - please check with the manufacturer before running HPs direct from the XLR outputs. Not all DACs support this.
 
Apologies if I gave anyone the impression that all DACs with a volume control can do this - that is not the case.

 

[Tobes]

Just got around to listening to some orchestral music program - not a big classical music buff, and never found headphones that enjoyable for this type of music, preferring listening via my speakers.
The superb balance, low level detail, instrument focus and dynamic range of the Utopia changes this for me. Again, HE6 not competitive with Utopia at all for this genre. It seems to me that focus and image specificity with the Utopia improves with playing in. And, wow, how good does the tone, textural detail and presence of acoustic instruments sound with these headphones - can really mesmerise. Pretty special!
FWIW I'm using the stock cable and appreciate the 4m length as I sit on the opposite side of the room to my equipment.
 
While I anticipated keeping the HE6, they are starting to look superfluous - can't see myself using them in preference to the Utopia.
The HE6s appear destined for the same fate as my HD600s - which are fine headphones - but for me they always lived in the shadow of the HE6 and rarely got used except as a common reference point.

 

[Shini44]

now two HE-6 users converted to Utopia xD and soon me once Focal Decide to ship my headphone to the local dealer sometime soon

HE1000/LCD-4/HD800s , all of these didn't let me think about replacing my HE-6.

that being said the HE-6 value wise in the right setup is like the best obtainable headphone, so epic and sound changes depend on the applied mod.

thanks again for updating us on the HE-6 vs Utopia ^^

oh @pervysage how is your TH900 and EDM? you gonna keep it? or your Utopia does EDM better? i hope so, then i won't need to use two cans  i will get me two Toxic Cables (Hydra and SW) for Utopia and that will do >=)

unless TH900 is still good for EDM vs Utopia. 

 

[kensonic]

Just got around to listening to some orchestral music program - not a big classical music buff, and never found headphones that enjoyable for this type of music, preferring listening via my speakers.
The superb balance, low level detail, instrument focus and dynamic range of the Utopia changes this for me. Again, HE6 not competitive with Utopia at all for this genre. It seems to me that focus and image specificity with the Utopia improves with playing in. And, wow, how good does the tone, textural detail and presence of acoustic instruments sound with these headphones - can really mesmerise. Pretty special!
FWIW I'm using the stock cable and appreciate the 4m length as I sit on the opposite side of the room to my equipment.

While I anticipated keeping the HE6, they are starting to look superfluous - can't see myself using them in preference to the Utopia.
The HE6s appear destined for the same fate as my HD600s - which are fine headphones - but for me they always lived in the shadow of the HE6 and rarely got used except as a common reference point.

How is the soundstage of the Utopia compared to the HE6 ?
I prefer the HD800 for classical music (due to the soundstage) but I like the "more focused presentation" of the HE6.
A bigger soundstage compared to the HE6 and an even more focused presentation would be tempting...

 

[Tobes]

How is the soundstage of the Utopia compared to the HE6 ?
I prefer the HD800 for classical music (due to the soundstage) but I like the "more focused presentation" of the HE6.
A bigger soundstage compared to the HE6 and an even more focused presentation would be tempting...

The HE6 can give the impression of greater width but with the Utopia individual instruments are much more focused, better scaled and separated. This gives more space for them to play into and sounds much more realistic to me. The way instruments decay into space also sounds wonderful...and the refined sound of chimes and the like, gorgeous. For clarity of sound field, precision and naturalness/neutrality the Utopia is a clear winner with Orchestral music for me.

Having said the above, I feel I should balance my comments a little.
In terms of deep bass purr and rumble - I'd still give that to the HE6. The Utopia is more focussed and detailed for sure, but the bass of the HE6 still sounds mighty impressive. Likewise, the HE6s bigger imagery and (sometimes) more spacious width may be preferable to some - despite not giving the same insight and truth or having (as) sharp reflexes as the Utopia. If I pick up the HE6 and listen, without comparing to the Utopia, it still impresses for sure. Note - I'm not really talking about orchestral music here, which I think more strongly favours the Utopia, but other genres e.g. Jazz, pop, rock, electronic, EDM etc.
So I suppose you could say my comments are relative rather than disparaging of the HE6s performance.

 

[disastermouse]

Yea, the HE-500's were solid. I should have just quit head-fi and stopped there.

This is where I'm at. Still rockin' my HE-500 with a Polaris amp and a Bimby DAC.

 

[jibzilla]

   
Direct drive from the DAC has been a revelation for me. Both the Ether Flow and Utopia have benefited tremendously from this. Not a subtle SQ step up at all.
 
I have tried several head amps over the past 3 years, jumping from Auralic Taurus to Simaudio 430HA to Violectric V281. None of those amp changes have made as much difference to the SQ as running direct from the DAC. None. It really is a major step change.
 
If I had the chance to do it all over again I would not have bothered upgrading my head amps at all and instead spent my ducats on the best DAC I could possibly afford that had a high quality volume control and could support direct drive of headphones via the XLR outputs (not all DACs tick all these boxes).
 
I see from your sig that are running a Yggy - which I don't think has a volume control? That's unfortunate, as it precludes the direct drive option.

 
I would try a few more amps before making such a sweeping statement. I recommend Apex, ECP, and Headamp. If your still dac only after that then this statement would be allot more valid to me. 

 

[reddog]

One day I will go with the legendary HE-6, but for now I will use my money to get the Utopia. Hope your Utopia's arrive to you as soon as humanly possible. Looking forward to hearing your impressions.

 

[inthere]

Well now that I know my Utopia is defective I'm wondering if the tuning on the one I have is similar to the non-defective version. Because I really like the tuning, it's just I can't get it to my listening level without it crackling.

 

[astrostar59]

Well now that I know my Utopia is defective I'm wondering if the tuning on the one I have is similar to the non-defective version. Because I really like the tuning, it's just I can't get it to my listening level without it crackling.

What is the tuning?

 

[TimeLord]

One day I will go with the legendary HE-6, but for now I will use my money to get the Utopia. Hope your Utopia's arrive to you as soon as humanly possible. Looking forward to hearing your impressions.

I kept hearing about the HE-6 and how great it was. Then there was the curiosity factor of whether or not my amp could drive it since it was supposed to be notoriously difficult to drive. I got to listen to a modified HE-6 two different times with my own gear. It was easily driven by the LAu. I have no idea what justifies its legendary status.The only thing I can think of is that maybe it was great when it came out, but against today's competition, let alone the Utopia, there are many headphones that I'd choose over it.
 
The treble response on the HE-6 was typical Hifiman harsh similar to the HE-400i and the HE-350. And if you're seeking deep bass, then I'd easily choose the LCD-X over the HE-6.
 
If you're going after the Utopia, you have little to be concerned about by not having the HE-6.

 

[TonyNewman]

  ...
If you're going after the Utopia, you have little to be concerned about by not having the HE-6.

 
As a fan of the modded HE6 who has just upgraded to the Ether Flow + Utopia, I can only agree with this statement.
 
HE6 can go deeper / harder in the bass, but that is about its only advantage IMHO. I would prefer my Utopia (or Ether Flow) 99% of the time.

 

[TonyNewman]

   
I would try a few more amps before making such a sweeping statement. I recommend Apex, ECP, and Headamp. If your still dac only after that then this statement would be allot more valid to me. 

 
I hope I was pretty clear in my post that I was relaying my experience and my opinion (only). I usually put in a YMMV somewhere. Please take it as implied.

 

[jibzilla]

   
I hope I was pretty clear in my post that I was relaying my experience and my opinion (only). I usually put in a YMMV somewhere. Please take it as implied.

Your more than welcome to your own opinion and I'm glad you found a setup that you really enjoy. I just wouldn't write off headphone amps just yet after only 3... that all together cost less than the Bricasti.

 

[TonyNewman]

 
Your more than welcome to your own opinion and I'm glad you found a setup that you really enjoy. I just wouldn't write off headphone amps just yet after only 3... that all together cost less than the Bricasti.

 
It is just my experience that I am relating - sure. However, the empirical evidence is pretty strong. Those 3 amps are all quite decent units - 2 of them have been on Tyll's WOF and the 3rd is a contender. Not rubbish amps at all. The SQ degradation of going direct vs via an amp was large - much larger than any differences I have experienced from changing amps. Hence my conclusion (and my opinion) that the best SQ results I have obtained have been by using an uber-DAC that is capable of direct headphone output. Bypassing the amp completely works for me. It might just work for others too.
 
My own 2 cents - the very best theoretical amp is "wire with gain" - in other words a 100% transparent device that amplifies the signal and nothing else. You don't get more transparent than nothing. Removing the amp altogether gets you closer to the source, by definition. Results might be different with other amps, but personally I doubt it (opinion again).
 
YMMV.