[jlbrach]

my suggestion is if you are going to listen through the utopia that you use a lossless source rather than spotify.....just my 2 cents

 

[kingkikapu]

my suggestion is if you are going to listen through the utopia that you use a lossless source rather than spotify.....just my 2 cents

Thanks for the suggestion, but I've done enough A/B/X testing that I find it difficult (for me) to accurately get even close to one sigma on lossless vs high bitrate lossy with a variety of gear. YMMV though.

Also, using a common source like spotify at least offers others the opportunity to check it out for themselves.

 

[jlbrach]

kind of like buying a super high end 4K TV and using rabbit ears with it,good luck

 

[Allanmarcus]

kind of like buying a super high end 4K TV and using rabbit ears with it,good luck

Man, I wish I could dislike posts here.

A any rate, not everyone can hear the subtleties of 320VBR vs lossless. If you can, that is wonderful, but please don't insult others that might not be able to. I cant either, for the most part. There is such a huge jump in clarity with the Utopia over most other cans, that using it over other cans brings significant improvement, even for lossy source material. I happen to have an LG OLED TV, and watch quite a bit of 720p content, and a little 1080p content. While 4k looks nice, there just isn't that much of it. HDR content? Maybe one day. Still, the 720p picture is much better on the LG than it is on my older Panasonic plasma. Am I taking full advantage of the tech? no. Am I enjoying it more than my older tech? yes. Oh, I watch sports games with my OTA antenna on the roof, which is just a tiny bit better than rabbit ears Rabbit ears can bring in 1080 content just fine, if you are close enough to the transmitter.

Not everyone here wants to blow $15k on a Dave, and many here couldn't tell the Dave from a Yggy in blind test anyways, or even tell a Yggy from a Bimby. If one can, that is wonderful and that person deserves the best equipment s/he can afford that makes them happy. Not everyone needs everything to be perfect to enjoy the Utopia. I know you didn't mention the Dave, but I thing a prior posted did and we get it, people like loooove the Dave.

Ok, rant off.

@kingkikapu , if you can hear a rattle, there is likely a rattle in there. If you got it new, take it back to the dealer. If you didn't get it new and you still have contact with the original buyer, have them take it back. If you got it used and you have no way to contact the original buyer, at least try to get the original receipt and go to a Focal deaerl and say it was a gift. Certainly try to get them to at least verify there is an issue.

 

[jlbrach]

I apologize if my post offended you,it was not intended to....I do not suggest everyone buy a Dave or any other high end super expensive equipment but since you already suggested that you owned a 4000 dollar pair of utopia HP's I suggested a lossless source might be a better option...since Tidal or other sources are only 100 dollars a year more than spotify I hardly am imploring you or anyone to spend a ton of money...again,no offense intended

 

[meomap]

Thanks for the suggestion, but I've done enough A/B/X testing that I find it difficult (for me) to accurately get even close to one sigma on lossless vs high bitrate lossy with a variety of gear. YMMV though.

Also, using a common source like spotify at least offers others the opportunity to check it out for themselves.

I suggested you to talk to your dealer or Focal.
Mine was sent to Focal. They put on test bench, to check for what? And could not find anything wrong with my unit with light driver rattle.
I used SACD jazz album with Studio Six amp. Never heard any rattle like this from my 1st and 2nd pair except this 3rd new unit arrived and noticed the problem right away.

I told them to have someone with expert ears to listen. No machine can catch this kind of problem.

 

[kingkikapu]

Thanks Allan. After clearly saying I couldn't differentiate between high bitrate lossy vs lossless with any statistical significance under controlled scientific conditions, I figured that should be the end of the argument. Because, science.

I'll contact Focal about the rattle. Maybe I'll see if I can borrow an old oscilloscope and function generator to see if I can pinpoint the problem before sending it off blindly to Focal.

 

[Allanmarcus]

I suggested you to talk to your dealer or Focal.

Just curious. How does one talk directly to Focal? I've sent them email from their on-line form, and gotten no reply. All their support pages say is to contact your dealer. This is in the USA. Maybe it's different in other countries.

Also, what is the point/value to the Warranty Certificate? If a focal product is registered and I have the warranty certificate in my name, do I still need my original proof of purchase for warranty work?

Thanks.

 

[kingkikapu]

I have proof of purchase, but don't think I ever sent in a warranty card. Don't think that should matter though legally (in Canada). Hmm I just remembered that I bought my pair from a retailer in Quebec. They have a different legal system than the rest of Canada.

Oh well time will tell.

 

[meomap]

Just curious. How does one talk directly to Focal? I've sent them email from their on-line form, and gotten no reply. All their support pages say is to contact your dealer. This is in the USA. Maybe it's different in other countries.

Also, what is the point/value to the Warranty Certificate? If a focal product is registered and I have the warranty certificate in my name, do I still need my original proof of purchase for warranty work?

Thanks.

Dealer said once it's your 3rd then Focal Rep will be in charge.

 

[Svatopluk]

I'm running Utopia through a HA-1 Dac/Amp combo with gain level set to high with -20dB on the dial which is fairly low on the non-linear curve. We're not talking super loud here. Windows sound is usually set to 100% and I also have a +4dB boost on bass frequencies to make the bottom of Utopia a little more to my liking. I've been running the bass boost for months (+6dB was causing mild clipping on extremely bassy tests so I backed it off to 4dB). I don't recall any clipping/rattling for months with that setting. I'll try running the gain on low with a higher volume and see if there is a difference. Its a very subtle rattle that occurs on larger bass transients and sometimes on the trailing note of mid frequencies. I first noticed it on the left channel, but it also happens on the right channel, but almost never together. I've been wondering if the source is a poor master with rare clipping, so I've been trying all sorts of different sources (DSD, FLAC, Spotify, Youtube). The effect is subtle and not happening all the time, but my ears zero in on it pretty quick because Utopia is so damn clean usually.

Test 1:
Listening to Hollies - Long Cool Woman In A Black Dress (1993 remaster) on Spotify right now with the volume turned up to -14dB and can hear faint buzz/rattle in right channel preceding either the bass guitar strum beat or that with a combination of the bass drum getting kicked. Man it's faint, but its there sometimes. Replaying the song on low gain with volume at -1.5 dB to 0 dB and can still hear a faint rattle in right channel on the same note combinations, albeit perhaps a bit more faint/infrequent. Hard to volume match the different gains.



Test 6 (I played 4 additional songs before finding another candidate):
Listening to Bush - Everything Zen on spotify volume -14.5 dB High Gain. At about 30 seconds in there is a bass guitar melody accompanying singer and I hear slight rattling again in right channel. Switching to low gain and attempting to volume match brings about the same rattle. I'm thinking then it's not to do with gain selection, but either one of two possibilities:

1) My 4dB bass boost is now clipping. Odd as I had no issues with this for months...
2) Something has come loose within the Utopia?

Thanks for the detailed information. I have the HA-1 as well and it's being fed through coaxial line from a Marantz CD5004 so the volume levels may very somewhat from your setup but they should be close enough to get some idea of the conditions that may be contributing to the problem.

With the gain level set on high and the dial set on -20 db, my SPL meter was reading a peak of 87 db on the Falconer (power metal) CD I was using for the test. That's pretty loud and beyond what OSHA considers to be a safe level for an extended period of time. When I set the dial on -38 db, the SPL meter was reading a peak of 78 db which would be an acceptable level for the longevity of both ears and headphones alike. My test rig may not be the best. It consists of the SPL meter being stuck through a CD while being pressed against the ear pad but I trust it's accuracy more than some of the other options.

When I first tried the Utopia with the gain set on high, I noticed faintly hearing music when the level was turned all the way down. Deciding it was a sign of impedance mismatching, I than proceeded with the test using the PM-2. It was the first time I ever cranked the PM-2 up that high using the high gain setting of the HA-1. It wasn't pretty.

 

[kingkikapu]

Thanks for the detailed information. I have the HA-1 as well and it's being fed through coaxial line from a Marantz CD5004 so the volume levels may very somewhat from your setup but they should be close enough to get some idea of the conditions that may be contributing to the problem.

With the gain level set on high and the dial set on -20 db, my SPL meter was reading a peak of 87 db on the Falconer (power metal) CD I was using for the test. That's pretty loud and beyond what OSHA considers to be a safe level for an extended period of time. When I set the dial on -38 db, the SPL meter was reading a peak of 78 db which would be an acceptable level for the longevity of both ears and headphones alike. My test rig may not be the best. It consists of the SPL meter being stuck through a CD while being pressed against the ear pad but I trust it's accuracy more than some of the other options.

When I first tried the Utopia with the gain set on high, I noticed faintly hearing music when the level was turned all the way down. Deciding it was a sign of impedance mismatching, I than proceeded with the test using the PM-2. It was the first time I ever cranked the PM-2 up that high using the high gain setting of the HA-1. It wasn't pretty.

Out of curiosity, is your utopia using the xlr or TRS output? Wish I had a SPL meter to check myself. It's been about 15 years since my last audiologist testing for WCB (OSHA equivalent) so not sure how my hearing is doing these days. It was pretty good back then, but 15 years is a long time.

 

[BunnyNamedCraig]

Just curious. How does one talk directly to Focal? I've sent them email from their on-line form, and gotten no reply. All their support pages say is to contact your dealer. This is in the USA. Maybe it's different in other countries.

Also, what is the point/value to the Warranty Certificate? If a focal product is registered and I have the warranty certificate in my name, do I still need my original proof of purchase for warranty work?

Thanks.

How MTME does it is we would get whatever warranty info you have and also recipet (if you have it). I say if you have it because we really just need some proof- bank statement, Paypal payment ect that you bought it off us. Then we get the serial number and then communication with Focal starts.

This is how WE do it and obviously other companies could be stricter on how they operate... when you buy through brick and mortar businesses, these moments can be a real benefit to the consumer.

 

[Svatopluk]

Out of curiosity, is your utopia using the xlr or TRS output? Wish I had a SPL meter to check myself. It's been about 15 years since my last audiologist testing for WCB (OSHA equivalent) so not sure how my hearing is doing these days. It was pretty good back then, but 15 years is a long time.

I compared both SE unbalanced and XLR balanced from the HA-1 using the Utopia's OEM cable for unbalanced and a Silver Dragon for the XLR output. The difference was around 10 db more balanced. With the HA-1 set on -20, it would be 75 db unbalanced and 85 db balanced.

I used my PM2 for the high gain level testing above 80 db, it's efficacy is equal to that of the Utopia and I figured it wouldn't hurt as bad if they went out in a blaze of glory. I think the PM2 was coming close at 87 db, the bass was starting to distort so I ended the test at that point. I fond levels above 83 db to be uncomfortable but everybody's different.. The only way of knowing your actual listening level is to test at the ear cup. With the ever increasing audio and bass levels of modern recordings, it's very easy to over do it in the pursuit of happiness and end up with damaged equipment both biologically and transducer wise.

Meomap mentioned in a previous post that the rattle was present during periods of bass decay, I'm wondering if this may have something to do with the Utopia's ability to convey echo like no other headphone I've experienced. Maybe the rattle is actually the last resonant sound coming from the body of a string bass, something most of us have never heard but only the Utopia's have the ability to reproduce. Perhaps just random thoughts from a a muddled mind.

 

[meomap]

I compared both SE unbalanced and XLR balanced from the HA-1 using the Utopia's OEM cable for unbalanced and a Silver Dragon for the XLR output. The difference was around 10 db more balanced. With the HA-1 set on -20, it would be 75 db unbalanced and 85 db balanced.

I used my PM2 for the high gain level testing above 80 db, it's efficacy is equal to that of the Utopia and I figured it wouldn't hurt as bad if they went out in a blaze of glory. I think the PM2 was coming close at 87 db, the bass was starting to distort so I ended the test at that point. I fond levels above 83 db to be uncomfortable but everybody's different.. The only way of knowing your actual listening level is to test at the ear cup. With the ever increasing audio and bass levels of modern recordings, it's very easy to over do it in the pursuit of happiness and end up with damaged equipment both biologically and transducer wise.

Meomap mentioned in a previous post that the rattle was present during periods of bass decay, I'm wondering if this may have something to do with the Utopia's ability to convey echo like no other headphone I've experienced. Maybe the rattle is actually the last resonant sound coming from the body of a string bass, something most of us have never heard but only the Utopia's have the ability to reproduce. Perhaps just random thoughts from a a muddled mind.

My first and second Utopia never sound like that with the same SACD album. Tested my Aeon and did not hear any rattle with same setup.