[Huxo]

The RME ADI-2 FS output is more than enough to drive the Stellia’s. Plus, it has PEQ and tone controls onboard that are both useful and functional. They give you the ability to tweak the sound to your liking. You could start there and if you need more power then add an amp later. At least this way, you can enjoy your Stellia’s knowing that you have a great DAC to build around.

Sounds really good. I think the possibilities of the RME (especially with the DSP) are incredible and I will use it as Preamp for my Speakers, too.

 

[Slim1970]

Sounds really good. I think the possibilities of the RME (especially with the DSP) are incredible and I will use it as Preamp for my Speakers, too.

The RME is full of useful features. I use mine as a preamp on occasion and it’s very good.

 

[FenceFurniture]

Especially because of what FenceFurniture wrote, balanced is a must have?!?

You always need to bare in mind that FenceFurniture doesn't have a lot of experience with this, and may not know what he is talking about. He came to that conclusion from reading and verbal advice, but balanced vs unbalanced is a long discussion apparently. My understanding is that it can increase the size of the sound stage and also add some clarity. I should probably dig out an adaptor for 3.5mm to ¼" and play Capriccio Italien finale on both. Another quieter piece to test this with will be Ray Brown SuperBass theme (also Telarc) where the gentle audience applause is sprinkled around the head.

 

[Huxo]

The RME is full of useful features. I use mine as a preamp on occasion and it’s very good.

I think I will go for the RME

You always need to bare in mind that FenceFurniture doesn't have a lot of experience with this, and may not know what he is talking about. He came to that conclusion from reading and verbal advice, but balanced vs unbalanced is a long discussion apparently. My understanding is that it can increase the size of the sound stage and also add some clarity. I should probably dig out an adaptor for 3.5mm to ¼" and play Capriccio Italien finale on both. Another quieter piece to test this with will be Ray Brown SuperBass theme (also Telarc) where the gentle audience applause is sprinkled around the head.

I have only very little experience with DACs so far, but I appreciate so much help So thank you for your comment. I think I will keep your information in mind and possible I will upgrade later or test it later if I can recognize a difference.

 

[FenceFurniture]

So I have just played two pieces, once with the Stellia supplied 1.2m cable which starts with a 3.5mm jack.
I plugged this into an adaptor and into the ¼" unbalanced output on the Schiit Jotunheim.
Second playing was with the Stellia supplied balanced XLR cable, coming out of the balanced output on the Schiit.


Using JRiver MC 26 as the source. Eq turned off, tracks have been analysed and volume leveling turned on.

Both tracks are from Telarc, and are 24bit, 176.4kHz, flac format decoded from an iso.

First track:
Super Bass Theme, then applause, then Get Happy
Recorded live in 2001
Ray Brown, John Clayton, Christian McBride all playing Double Basses, so the bottom end gets a real workout.
Volume knob on the Schiit left constant (11 o'clock), gain on low.
Unbalanced cable: sounded good, but I thought the bass was struggling a bit for clarity (this is VERY full on double bass x3)
Balanced cable: a slight increase in volume (I thought it might be the opposite) and a definite increase in separation and spread of the instruments. Quite easily discernible increase in the sound stage.

Second Track:
Capriccio Italien, Erich Kunzel Cincinnati Pops Orchestra. 1999 recording.
Volume knob on the Schiit left constant (12 o'clock), gain on low.
Unbalanced cable: did not seem to sound as I had remembered this piece (I have listened to it three times in the last few days)
Balanced cable: JAYSUS! What a difference! Nothing subtle at all about this difference. It was like listening to the same brand of speakers but one or two levels up in the range. The full orchestra accent at 12:45 as astonishing and sounds thinner and far less present with the unbalanced cable.

Third track (even though I said two):
Sting, "Send your Love" from Sacred Love. SACD 24bit, 176.4kHz, flac files, studio recording 2003
Volume knob on the Schiit left constant (12 o'clock), gain on low.
Balanced cable (first): Clean as a whistle, right across the range, especially the flamenco guitar intro.
Unbalanced cable: GUTLESS by comparison! What?
Back to the balanced cable (because I was gobsmacked): yup, leaves the unbalanced cable sounding like a cheaper pair of cans!


Other's mileage may vary of course, but what I just heard settles it completely for me: balanced wins hands down. Increased volume, sound stage, clarity, separation. It's just a significantly bigger aural experience. This may not always be the case with other tracks, particularly of lower resolution.

Caveat: I am 64, slight tinnitus, and not particularly technically minded. Cable changes/track restart took about 8-10 seconds.

 

[Huxo]

Thank you so much for your interesting post FenceFurniture. Your results are pretty clear. Ithink it could be that the build quality of the balanced and unbalanced of the shiit is different. So that the implementation by Shiit of the unbalanced was made worse. But I have no experience in the field at all and I try only to find an explanation. I think a comparision between unbalanced and balanced with the RME ADI 2 Pro would be interesting.

 

[FenceFurniture]

Thank you so much for your interesting post FenceFurniture. Your results are pretty clear. Ithink it could be that the build quality of the balanced and unbalanced of the shiit is different. So that the implementation by Shiit of the unbalanced was made worse. But I have no experience in the field at all and I try only to find an explanation. I think it would be interstng a comparision between unbalanced and balanced with the RME ADI 2 Pro.

That may well be right, and others with the knowledge may be able to comment on that. However, I wouldn't think there would be that much difference inside the amp - mostly the same parts of the circuits used I should think. Have we got a tech-head who can comment on that?

I suppose the Schiit Jotunheim would be classified as middle of the range roughly? Maybe at the lower end of high end?

It would be very interesting to see what results might come out of the Arche.......that's a giant hint hoegaardener!

 

[Hoegaardener70]

It would be very interesting to see what results might come out of the Arche.......that's a giant hint hoegaardener!

LOL, let me hear this Sunday.

 

[TheMiddleSky]

So I have just played two pieces, once with the Stellia supplied 1.2m cable which starts with a 3.5mm jack.
I plugged this into an adaptor and into the ¼" unbalanced output on the Schiit Jotunheim.
Second playing was with the Stellia supplied balanced XLR cable, coming out of the balanced output on the Schiit.


Using JRiver MC 26 as the source. Eq turned off, tracks have been analysed and volume leveling turned on.

Both tracks are from Telarc, and are 24bit, 176.4kHz, flac format decoded from an iso.

First track:
Super Bass Theme, then applause, then Get Happy
Recorded live in 2001
Ray Brown, John Clayton, Christian McBride all playing Double Basses, so the bottom end gets a real workout.
Volume knob on the Schiit left constant (11 o'clock), gain on low.
Unbalanced cable: sounded good, but I thought the bass was struggling a bit for clarity (this is VERY full on double bass x3)
Balanced cable: a slight increase in volume (I thought it might be the opposite) and a definite increase in separation and spread of the instruments. Quite easily discernible increase in the sound stage.

Second Track:
Capriccio Italien, Erich Kunzel Cincinnati Pops Orchestra. 1999 recording.
Volume knob on the Schiit left constant (12 o'clock), gain on low.
Unbalanced cable: did not seem to sound as I had remembered this piece (I have listened to it three times in the last few days)
Balanced cable: JAYSUS! What a difference! Nothing subtle at all about this difference. It was like listening to the same brand of speakers but one or two levels up in the range. The full orchestra accent at 12:45 as astonishing and sounds thinner and far less present with the unbalanced cable.

Third track (even though I said two):
Sting, "Send your Love" from Sacred Love. SACD 24bit, 176.4kHz, flac files, studio recording 2003
Volume knob on the Schiit left constant (12 o'clock), gain on low.
Balanced cable (first): Clean as a whistle, right across the range, especially the flamenco guitar intro.
Unbalanced cable: GUTLESS by comparison! What?
Back to the balanced cable (because I was gobsmacked): yup, leaves the unbalanced cable sounding like a cheaper pair of cans!


Other's mileage may vary of course, but what I just heard settles it completely for me: balanced wins hands down. Increased volume, sound stage, clarity, separation. It's just a significantly bigger aural experience. This may not always be the case with other tracks, particularly of lower resolution.

Caveat: I am 64, slight tinnitus, and not particularly technically minded. Cable changes/track restart took about 8-10 seconds.

At "real" balance configuration amplifier, absolutely balance connection will take the crown. Also happen to all of Questyle products, balance always win, and sometimes (especially harder to driver cans), the difference is significant.

However, this doesn't mean that balance connection is always better than single ended. A CMA400i in balance will never sound as detail, accurate, and fluid as single ended Hugo 2.

My point is, the manufacturer who produce real balance amp, will set the price based on maximum capability of their product, in this matter, a balance amp is worth the price when we use balance. Single ended would only perform "a half / a quarter" capability of the amp.

 

[noplsestar]

When well implemented there is no difference between single end and balanced. Just look at the LPGT dap. Not many manufacturers get it right. I have the opinion that they just don’t care that much about the single end output and in this case of course you get that „wow“ effect when switching to the balanced out.

There are DAPs that sound better in single end than others in balanced. Take the Dethonray DTR1 for instance or the good old Calyx M. Or chord products.

 

[arielext]

I think about to extend the Budget to 1000€ and to try the RME ADI-2 DAC FS. But without an additional amp there is only an unbalanced output. Is that a big disadvantage?

Especially because of what FenceFurniture wrote, balanced is a must have?!? However, the RME ADI-2 Pro FS R Black Edition is too expensive for me and I don't know if it makes sense to combine the ADI-2 with the SMSL SP200 THX 888 only for balanced reasons with the Stellia.

Note that the SP200 does not offer 'true' balanced outputs, they are there for convenience!

 

[FenceFurniture]

When well implemented there is no difference between single end and balanced. Just look at the LPGT dap.

Firstly, this is not meant as a criticism of your post. The LPGT DAP is USD2800 after an apparent discount of $400. For that kind of money, and for a product that will be out of date in perhaps 6 months at best, I would certainly hope they would get it right. DAPs are fast moving technology, and are more or less ephemeral at the moment. Unless I had more money than I needed I would not spend that kind of money on a DAP until the tech settles somewhat. And the question remains: how good would it be if it was balanced output?

Edit: Now I'm a little confused. The LPGT DAP is both balanced and unbalanced output (I had assumed from your post that it was just unbalanced), and there is at least some difference in the specs, so do those differences amount to virtually no difference or is there something else to it? Screenshot attached.

 

[XeNoNF50]

I think about to extend the Budget to 1000€ and to try the RME ADI-2 DAC FS. But without an additional amp there is only an unbalanced output. Is that a big disadvantage?

Especially because of what FenceFurniture wrote, balanced is a must have?!? However, the RME ADI-2 Pro FS R Black Edition is too expensive for me and I don't know if it makes sense to combine the ADI-2 with the SMSL SP200 THX 888 only for balanced reasons with the Stellia.

SMSL SP200's XLR connector is there purely for convenience - the sound through the XLR port will be almost identical to the 1/4" jack and you get the same power from both ports.

 

[noplsestar]

Firstly, this is not meant as a criticism of your post. The LPGT DAP is USD2800 after an apparent discount of $400. For that kind of money, and for a product that will be out of date in perhaps 6 months at best, I would certainly hope they would get it right. DAPs are fast moving technology, and are more or less ephemeral at the moment. Unless I had more money than I needed I would not spend that kind of money on a DAP until the tech settles somewhat. And the question remains: how good would it be if it was balanced output?

Edit: Now I'm a little confused. The LPGT DAP is both balanced and unbalanced output (I had assumed from your post that it was just unbalanced), and there is at least some difference in the specs, so do those differences amount to virtually no difference or is there something else to it? Screenshot attached.

The guys from Lotoo managed to implement the unbalanced and balanced output in a kind that they sound the same.

Edit: Other manufacturers, like AK, have inferior unbalanced outputs.

In many cases it comes down to if you need more power. For that IMO balanced works well, but if unbalanced out is implemented good, then it shouldn’t matter (especially with Stellia)

 

[Hoegaardener70]

It would be very interesting to see what results might come out of the Arche.......that's a giant hint hoegaardener!

So, I took up my assigned duty today (fairly easy to do in this case ) and compared balanced vs non-balanced on the Arche. Setup was Stellia using a Norne Silvergarde C with a 2.5mm balanced ending. This was connected a. Balanced with a Norne adapter 2.5mm-> 4pin XLR and b. Unbalanced with a Furutech adapter 2.5mm->6.4mm. Both adapters are excellent. This allowed me to switch back and forth in a couple of seconds.

Findings: Main source was Stravinsky’s Petrushka, conducted by Gergiev, coming from a digital source in hi-res to the Arche. Volume between the two connections was roughly the same. The balanced Output had a wider soundstage and overall better holographic qualities. I am pretty sure even a casual listener would have heard the difference. However, as a second I listened to some Doom Metal, and in this case (not hi-res, low quality mix) the massive bass and claustrophobic sound walls did sound pretty identical to me.

The conclusions is, for Doom Metal you can use both balanced and single ended. In most other cases, I’d stick to balanced.