[dannybgoode]

One of the things that i like about Elear is how true and accurate it sounds in comparison to the source/real life. Some of the strengths of Elear is bass and dynamics which some people complain that it is distracting or cause fatigue. This is puzzling to me as real life music always grabs my attention and any headphone that does not portray this quality is simply not accurate in technicality. It's not wrong to like and prefer a more technically laid back sound, i can understand that, i think it's not fair to Elear(or headphones with exceptional dynamics) and to our self by claiming Great dynamics as a flaw/flavour. Now that we get to hear how great dynamics can be achieved in headphones, we should demand it even more from future headphones.


In short, go and enjoy whatever sound you like. Just don't try to convince yourself that lean bass and laid back dynamics is more accurate because you're missing out a lot and it's not true representation of real music.

This post is not targeted at anyone, i'm just tired of people claiming bright , lean and laid back sound as accurate or better. I just don't hear all this in real life music.

The Elear is far from accurate. I understand what you saying about being grabbed by the music but that doesn't make them accurate either.

They are pretty tonally coloured (intentionally so) and some distance form giving a truce representation of the recording.

The Utopia are deathly accurate-sniper from to miles head shot accurate with the HEK v2 not fat behind.

This does not mean the Elear is not a very goods headphone - it is - one of the best for the money; but compared the the very best it has a number of flaws, ultimate accuracy being one of them.

 

[frigginloony]

 

One of the things that i like about Elear is how true and accurate it sounds in comparison to the source/real life. Some of the strengths of Elear is bass and dynamics which some people complain that it is distracting or cause fatigue. This is puzzling to me as real life music always grabs my attention and any headphone that does not portray this quality is simply not accurate in technicality. It's not wrong to like and prefer a more technically laid back sound, i can understand that, i think it's not fair to Elear(or headphones with exceptional dynamics) and to our self by claiming Great dynamics as a flaw/flavour. Now that we get to hear how great dynamics can be achieved in headphones, we should demand it even more from future headphones.


In short, go and enjoy whatever sound you like. Just don't try to convince yourself that lean bass and laid back dynamics is more accurate because you're missing out a lot and it's not true representation of real music.

This post is not targeted at anyone, i'm just tired of people claiming bright , lean and laid back sound as accurate or better. I just don't hear all this in real life music.

The Elear is far from accurate. I understand what you saying about being grabbed by the music but that doesn't make them accurate either.

They are pretty tonally coloured (intentionally so) and some distance form giving a truce representation of the recording.

The Utopia are deathly accurate-sniper from to miles head shot accurate with the HEK v2 not fat behind.

This does not mean the Elear is not a very goods headphone - it is - one of the best for the money; but compared the the very best it has a number of flaws, ultimate accuracy being one of them.

I disagree with that "far from accurate"  statement Danny. They are NOT that far from accurate. Period.  I will say however that the HEK V2 and Utopia headphones are in a higher class of headphone and rightly so considering their cost. But if we use your line of thinking regarding accuracy, would we not be correct in saying that the Utopia and HEK  as compared to the 50 K Orpheus are as accurate as a musket is to an Israeli-made DAN.338. Headphones are subjective to the user. I can't hear frequency response curves, so I'll stick to what my ears say and for the time being continue to shoot my musket. 

 

[dannybgoode]

I disagree with that "far from accurate"  statement Danny. They are NOT that far from accurate. Period.  I will say however that the HEK V2 and Utopia headphones are in a higher class of headphone and rightly so considering their cost. But if we use your line of thinking regarding accuracy, would we not be correct in saying that the Utopia and HEK  as compared to the 50 K Orpheus are as accurate as a musket is to an [COLOR=333333]Israeli-made DAN.338. Headphones are subjective to the user. I can't hear frequency response curves, so I'll stick to what my ears say and for the time being continue to shoot my musket. [/COLOR]

Fair point and I really like the Elear's presentation.

To be fair thinking about them a little more it isn't so much outright accuracy that puts them behind the Utopia or HEK but that those headphones are so open and transparent they allow so much more detail and nuance to be heard.

Tonally is agree the Elear is not far off and what colour is there is very much intentional on Focal's part.

 

[shootthemoon18]

The Elear is far from accurate. I understand what you saying about being grabbed by the music but that doesn't make them accurate either.

They are pretty tonally coloured (intentionally so) and some distance form giving a truce representation of the recording.

The Utopia are deathly accurate-sniper from to miles head shot accurate with the HEK v2 not fat behind.

This does not mean the Elear is not a very goods headphone - it is - one of the best for the money; but compared the the very best it has a number of flaws, ultimate accuracy being one of them.

Forgive me if i did't articulate well enough. My point wasn't saying that Elear is the most accurate. Obviously, that would probably go to Utopia but that's not my point either. My point was that headphones with proper bass and good dynamics is more accurate than bright, lean, and laid back sound.
 
I think Focal tuned the Elear and Utopia to be tonally accurate for its audience. You might be right that Utopia is more accurate tonally but i'm guessing Elear users listen to a wider variety of music with treble that is emphasized and lean in body. So Elear colored sound might correct the type of recording that its users are listening. Anyway, they don't sound too dissimilar.
 
I feel like this thread has shifted a bit too much into negativity so i'll try to add some positivity. 

One thing that i noticed about the Elear that people haven mentioned yet is the almost vibration free chassis.  Most headphones that put out Elear's amount of bass will rattle the chassis quite severely. Elear seem to be almost free from this effect.

 

[Imusicman]

  Forgive me if i did't articulate well enough. My point wasn't saying that Elear is the most accurate. Obviously, that would probably go to Utopia but that's not my point either. My point was that headphones with proper bass and good dynamics is more accurate than bright, lean, and laid back sound.
 
I think Focal tuned the Elear and Utopia to be tonally accurate for its audience. You might be right that Utopia is more accurate tonally but i'm guessing Elear users listen to a wider variety of music with treble that is emphasized and lean in body. So Elear colored sound might correct the type of recording that its users are listening. Anyway, they don't sound too dissimilar.
 
I feel like this thread has shifted a bit too much into negativity so i'll try to add some positivity. 

One thing that i noticed about the Elear that people haven mentioned yet is the almost vibration free chassis.  Most headphones that put out Elear's amount of bass will rattle the chassis quite severely. Elear seem to be almost free from this effect.

I agree. Lets stay positive

 

[CanadianMaestro]

@danny:  Accuracy is another term for neutrality. I agree with your point. Few headphones are dead neutral. Some come very close.
 
For those wondering how one defines neutrality, a good definition is simply: Output = Input. No more, no less.

 

[dannybgoode]

@danny:  Accuracy is another term for neutrality. I agree with your point. Few headphones are dead neutral. Some come very close.

For those wondering how one defines neutrality, a good definition is simply: Output = Input. No more, no less.

The Utopia's being almost there. Really adds very little or takes very little away.

That doesn't make colour a bad thing. Dead neutral often can sometimes lack engagement and emotion hence the Elear is so listenable.

 

[CanadianMaestro]

The Utopia's being almost there. Really adds very little or takes very little away.

That doesn't make colour a bad thing. Dead neutral often can sometimes lack engagement and emotion hence the Elear is so listenable.

For HPs, yes -- neutrality can be boring. Most people don't spend $$$ on an HP for pure neutrality. They want some spark and coloration (what do you think after-market cabling does?). Nothing bad with that. For me, I want to hear what's on a recording. Period. If it's bad/great, I should hear it all. That's why I like my floor system >>> my HPs.
 
cheers

 

[davidmolliere]

I get the argument in favor of neutrality, as in "enjoy music as it was intended by the artist" and engineer that mastered it (Hi-Fidelity ), doesn't mean the mastering is neutral itself so theoretically an accurate headphone (neutral implies invariable neutrality accurate fits better) could render something as warmer/colder/bassy whatnot when it's intended as such otherwise it would be neutral in absolute terms and therefore potentially not accurate. As no gear is perfect it means that it will more or less tend towards that perfection.
 
I won't even go into the fact that perception of the listener can vary greatly, and also manufacturer play into perceptual tricks to make a headphone sound more detailed with artifices that are not in the philosophy of neutrality, just the same way a headphone can be made to sound warmer Those artifices are "bad" from an accuracy point of view but we should consider the point that a headphone which is always neutral no matter how it was mastered would not either fit the accuracy bill... That should also be applied to unaturally bright headphones that are not necessarily accurate either... 
 
I for one don't mind straying a bit from accuracy to the original recording, and add a layer of "interpretation" from the gear, making things more euphonic
In that respect the Elear delivers

 

[doctorjazz]

I've been on a roll recently, going to live shows, mostly jazz, some rock (tonight going to see Slavic Soul Party, check then out on Youtube) (New Orleans meets Eastern Europe)


From my vantage point, recorded music ain't even close to live. Drums never sound like drums on recordings, bass doesn't have the physicality

Went to the Village Vanguard last week, Dave Douglas and Joe Lovano, great sound, no speakers, amps, headphones, turntables even come close.




It's not just that gear isn't up to the task. I don't think recordings are up to the task, even through the best gear (I heard $20,000 Sound Labs Speakers through Pass monoblock amps, BAT Preamp this past weekend, not close to the Vanguard experience).

So, I'm not that worried about accuracy, though I do listen for detail, soundstage, etc. I just want to dig my tunes. Have my head bop.

 

[doctorjazz]

(this is not always true-I find rock shows sometimes in some ways not as good as the recordings. They get really loud, which is good in a physical way, but often detail is obscured. Saw Ryan Adams last week, couldn't understand a single lyric. Went to see Nels Cline/Larry Ochs/Gerald Cleaver-free jazz or whatever you want to call it-in 2 venues, Johnny Brenda's in Philly, and in a house concert at a friends. Could barely hear a thing at Johnny Brenda's beyond Clines incendiary guitar, much better balance at the living room show, and I heard recordings of it later, less immediate, but could hear the details of the musicians playing that I had more trouble with live at either performance).

 

[LaCuffia]

I've been on a roll recently, going to live shows, mostly jazz, some rock (tonight going to see Slavic Soul Party, check then out on Youtube) (New Orleans meets Eastern Europe)


From my vantage point, recorded music ain't even close to live. Drums never sound like drums on recordings, bass doesn't have the physicality

Went to the Village Vanguard last week, Dave Douglas and Joe Lovano, great sound, no speakers, amps, headphones, turntables even come close.




It's not just that gear isn't up to the task. I don't think recordings are up to the task, even through the best gear (I heard $20,000 Sound Labs Speakers through Pass monoblock amps, BAT Preamp this past weekend, not close to the Vanguard experience).

So, I'm not that worried about accuracy, though I do listen for detail, soundstage, etc. I just want to dig my tunes. Have my head bop.

Cool....I saw Joe Lovano last year at the Village Vanguard.  He was playing with the same band that recorded the live at the Vanguard records from years ago.   He's a great saxophonist.   That must have been an excellent show, as I dig that record he did with Douglas too.   I think it was a tribute to Wayne Shorter.

 

[doctorjazz]

@LaCuffia
Yup, the band is a tribute to Wayne (who's playing at NJ PAC soon)...

 

[LaCuffia]

One thing to note that the acoustics at the Vanguard are incredible - there is a reason that over 100 records have been recorded there.   You can't beat live music, but it's very hard to find a venue with good acoustics (more so for rock music than for acoustic jazz though).  I think the Vanguard is the exception to the rule.  

 

[doctorjazz]

One thing to note that the acoustics at the Vanguard are incredible - there is a reason that over 100 records have been recorded there.   You can't beat live music, but it's very hard to find a venue with good acoustics (more so for rock music than for acoustic jazz though).  I think the Vanguard is the exception to the rule.  

Agreed, not every venue is equal to every other, the Lovano/Douglas show just hit me in the face with how MUCH better the sound is than anything I can listen to at home...