Focal Elear and Utopia Review / Preview With Measurements - Head-Fi TV
Jun 19, 2016 at 4:10 AM Post #466 of 5,632
  I gotcha buddy. I hear the hek as having more realistic texture as well vs the thin 800. How does the Utopia soundstage compare to the HEK?

 
I think I posted it somewhere in my comparison above. Within that long essay, you might've accidentally missed this:
 
As for the comparison to the HE1000, again I feel the Utopia lacks in width and depth in comparison. Again, layering is harder for me to distinguish on the Utopia compared to the HE1000, and imaging is more effortless on the HE1000 (though I don't believe the HE1000 beats the HD800S here).
 
Jun 19, 2016 at 4:28 AM Post #467 of 5,632
 
I gotcha buddy. I hear the hek as having more realistic texture as well vs the thin 800. How does the Utopia soundstage compare to the HEK?


I think I posted it somewhere in my comparison above. Within that long essay, you might've accidentally missed this:

As for the comparison to the HE1000, again I feel the Utopia lacks in width and depth in comparison. Again, layering is harder for me to distinguish on the Utopia compared to the HE1000, and imaging is more effortless on the HE1000 (though I don't believe the HE1000 beats the HD800S here).

Ahh sorry. Thanks
 
Jun 19, 2016 at 4:33 AM Post #468 of 5,632
Regarding the Listen, I just got to hear it for the first time last night and I agree that's it's a pretty solid entry in the $250 price range.  What I like best about it is how the overall tonal balance is fun but not exaggerated to the point of being V-shaped.  Also the bass is admirably restrained for a closed headphone; it's got bass, but it's not that boomy closed-back bass that can get muddy and intrusive.  It's super easy to drive, it has a removable cable, has a mic and single-button remote in the cable, folds up small, etc.  It's a great portable option and I expect to hear more about this guy once the excitement over the big boys starts to tone down a bit.

I'm usually terrible about finding and subscribing to new threads, but I seriously hope that I don't miss Oppo PM-3 vs Focal Listen compare and contrast. Maybe vs some other closed headphones in the $300-$400 price range, see how close this $250 option gets

I had two PM-3's (and auditioned a tour unit, which was nice) and found it to be a surprisingly detailed and refined headphone, but it was missing the fun of sub-bass extension I normally got from my bigger headphones. I would NOT say the PM-3 had "no bass," but I am saying simply I had wished for a little more "fun."

So, now I'm curious about the Listen. Somewhere between a U and a V-shaped frequency response, eh? Fold-flat form factor? I wonder if I could "inspire" someone at my work to order a pair, LMAO!
 
Jun 19, 2016 at 4:57 AM Post #469 of 5,632
I think I posted it somewhere in my comparison above. Within that long essay, you might've accidentally missed this:

As for the comparison to the HE1000, again I feel the Utopia lacks in width and depth in comparison. Again, layering is harder for me to distinguish on the Utopia compared to the HE1000, and imaging is more effortless on the HE1000 (though I don't believe the HE1000 beats the HD800S here).

Hey, I may not understand some of the descriptions you used, but I'd like to thank you for adding your comparison impressions! They seemed quite thoughtful.

Do you think you could elaborate on your thoughts of why you felt the HD800S had both exaggerated mids, but is drier and less lively than the HE-1k and Utopia? Lively to me usually means more mids energy, but so does exaggeration, leaving me not quite sure how these are stacking against eachother to your ears.



Had a great time at The Source AV today.  A big thanks to Jason and everyone else who helped make it happen.

Utopia  -  Quite simply, this is a world-class headphone. [snip]

Elear  -  [snip]  Even with this voicing, they still sound great and are definitely one of the best $1000-and-under headphones on the market... [snip]

Listen  -  These suckers rock!  They are pretty much the Mini-Me version of the Fostex TH-900!  For $250 bucks, these are a steal. [snip]

I appreciate your impressions too! I'm not quite as focused on bass impressions, but of course I like bass and every data point helps :) Would be quite interested in some examples of well-recorded/mastered songs you used to test! I just like well-recorded songs ^_^

I really appreciated the Listen impressions too... Sometimes I've just got too much earwax to use IEMs (it doesn't fall out like it should and does for most people), so a closed headphone with more comfort than the V-Moda M-100 could be good :)


Personal Perspective:
I just recently bought (discovered!) and HD800 and am still coming to grips with owning such capable sound, but it's been a decent point of reference in understanding other headphones and other people's reviews. From reviews before my first listen of the HD800 at RMAF last year, I expected more treble edge and a little boredom in the bass, drier mids, but the actual experience of listening was astounding and I'm quite satisfied with the above, much more positive than critical reviews led me to believe. Then, I heard the Ether at RMAF and liked that even more, the HE-1k was good too but just too much $ to consider (and overall I still liked the Ether flavor more). I bought the HD800 with some tax refund money, and it's still plenty to blow me away on my home rig.

I am still curious about the Elear though, if it might have some of the qualities I liked about the Ether for $400 less. I probably will remain curious till I hear it for myself, but I'll eat up any impressions of cool new gear!
 
Jun 19, 2016 at 5:27 AM Post #472 of 5,632
  I do not understand why people here like to compare the Utopia with 800S. Even though i did not try this new flagship yet as well as the Utopia speakers.
From my friend‘s description, a Utopia speakers' big fan, Utopia's sound is so different from HD800...
I tried HD800 with the Siltech cable under the rigs:Wadia S7i+Eddie Current Balancing Act, The sound is perfect but still neutral...
Regarding the design, the producer is a speaker manufacturer, why no one compare the Utopia with the old cans AKG K1000, even no one mention them?
I would like some one to make a comparison between the two. Exciting!

 
For one, HD800(S) are probably the best dynamic headphone in years so it's natural to use it as reference to judge a newcomer (tremendously helpful for me as I know what the HD800/S sound like).
Second, the Utopia is actually rather similar in design (very open baffle, similar size cup it seems, different tech but very rigid/quick driver).
AKG K1000 is a whole different beast with its pad less design. In other words, it's not because Focal rep says they put a miniaturized speaker in front of your ears that you must believe everything they imply about soundstage / reproducing the Utopia loudspeaker experience.
As a matter of fact, I am yet to read some impression that the Utopia images well / better than other similar tech headphones.
 
arnaud
 
Jun 19, 2016 at 6:02 AM Post #474 of 5,632
2 am and tired but some quick impressions, pardon if I make some points that are unclear about to fall asleep.
 
Listen: Gave some impressions yesterday but did some more listen on my fiio x5/galaxy s5 and then on the Cavalli Liquid Spark. Soundstage was still not all that wide or deep. Mids were present but the boosted bass and treble does make the Listen a pretty fun headphone. Comfort and isolation I think for on the go use will work great for most. Cable is a twist in detachable cable design, has microphone and then further done separate from the mic is a pause play button, plug is v-moda cross between a right angle and straight angle. Price wise I think it competes well with the meze 99 classics or the sennheiser momentum 2. Personally it might come down to sound signature preference more than anything.
 
Elear: Very nice! Bass did have some emphasis and tad north of neutral but nowhere close to bloated or basshead at least to my ears. Mids were well defined and detailed. Treble was more or less polite. Could tell it wasn't going to be as fatiguing as say the hd800 with its excess treble. Some tracks I would prefer touch more treble but I could see it working for folks that are treble sensitive. I had some hot mastered music that I love but are generally too sibilant on my he500. I did go back and forth between the Elear and my modded he500 and I would say they were both headphones with a distinct sound. Bass wise I would say I prefer an overall planar bass sound so the he500 would still probably edge it out for bass. Otherwise I would say the Elear were a clearer headphone and would be a lot less fatiguing.
 
Utopia: This headphone was tad ticky to put my finger on the first time I gave it a listen. I at first thought they were a wider soundstange than the hd800 but after a/bing the two I wouldn't say the same now. The soundstage for the Utopia after thinking about it a bit was distinct, not as wide or deep as the hd800 but perhaps better in instrument separation and that made it sound more detailed. Sounstage was always kinda ticky for me to describe.
 
Bass was moreso linear and a flat sound that I am used to. Extended pretty deep and was plenty punchy on bassy tracks I played around with it. I prefer a planar bass sound most definitely but I am not unhappy with the Utopia's bass. less bass quantity than say compared to the Elear.
 
Mids were very pleasant and sounded great. Quite detailed and very much in line with the bass. Didn't hear any bass creeping up into the mids. I feel like I am cliched in saying "I heard and noticed new things in a track I heard a million times" but I was noticing quite a few new things in Pink Floyd's The Wall album, same master I had in my Dap that I listen to regularly.
 
Treble was certainly interesting hearing on the Tungsten first which just sounded full and detail rich. Swapped over to the Moon 430HA later with my fiio x5 as a source and then I thought the Utopia was suddenly a tad bright. Listening to Komm, süsser Tod from The End of Evangelion I was starting to hear some sibilance, with the Elear and its polite treble I had forgot about how the track was a tad hot master. When I swapped over to my he500 the sibilance suddenly became unbearable under the same amp and with my dap, even sticking in some MrSpeakers ether foam my he500 was a bit too bright suddenly.
 
Overall of the day I was very happy to hear all 3. The Listen is a solid portable over ear, from talking with the Focal reps, IIRC the Listen is going to replace the One S, the Professional will remain, the Classic will be next headphone to be replaced. The Elear's were a bassy and polite in the treble. The Utopia was a general all rounder that to me hit all the right notes for a dynamic flagship.

Value wise... I would probably not mind recommending the Listen to folks in the market for a sub $300 portable can that works quite nicely on the go. The Elear... is a going to also be a recommendation I would make to folks that are treble sensitive or would like a more mellow headphone. The Utopia... is in a general realm of headphone that I don't have too much experience listening to its peers with maybe the exception of the HD800 (maybe the Dharma which I received just today). The Utopia for folks looking for probably a very good sounding all rounder I would say go for it.
 
Hopefully that helps, if I wrote a weird sentence just let me know and I'll clarify but for now need sleeeeep.
 
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Jun 19, 2016 at 6:08 AM Post #475 of 5,632
   
For one, HD800(S) are probably the best dynamic headphone in years so it's natural to use it as reference to judge a newcomer (tremendously helpful for me as I know what the HD800/S sound like).
Second, the Utopia is actually rather similar in design (very open baffle, similar size cup it seems, different tech but very rigid/quick driver).
AKG K1000 is a whole different beast with its pad less design. In other words, it's not because Focal rep says they put a miniaturized speaker in front of your ears that you must believe everything they imply about soundstage / reproducing the Utopia loudspeaker experience.
As a matter of fact, I am yet to read some impression that the Utopia images well / better than other similar tech headphones.
 
arnaud

Okay, fully understand. Maybe i more care about the sound style but not the the bass, treble, soundstage and so on first. Only from the price, i can say they should not be worse than other flagships...
A little upset about the impressions so far. But still looking forward to more comparisons, and if the sound from Utopia is match the Burmester player. Exciting!
 
Jun 19, 2016 at 6:21 AM Post #476 of 5,632
Hey everybody, I was at The Source AV today, and I got some decent listening time in with the Focal Elear and Utopia (especially towards the end, where there was less people).

Before I go any further, I'll say what systems I used for comparing which headphones.

I compared the Focal Elear and the Mr. Speakers Ether (open) using the AK500N as the source and DAC, and the Cavalli Liquid Gold as the amplifier. I was able to listen to the Elear and the Ether with balanced cables.

For comparing the Focal Utopia and the Sennheiser HD800S, I used the the Questyle "Gold Stack" (CAS192D DAC, CMA800P pre-amp, and 2x CMA800R paired in monoblock mode). I used balanced cables for both headphones in this comparison.

To compare the Focal Utopia and the Hifiman HE1000, I used the AK500N as the source and DAC, and the Cavalli Liquid Gold as the amp. I was only able to do this comparison in single-ended because there were unfortunately no balanced cables around for the HE1000.

I tried to do some volume-matching by ear when doing each comparison, but obviously this isn't going to be perfect. Also, the reason I used these systems was because out of everything there, I felt they brought out the best of the headphones.

Two more things: I actually own the HE1000 myself, and I prefer a neutral sound signature with perhaps a hint of warmth.

And one final disclaimer: YMMV, these are just my opinions, etc. (I'm saying this because I know there are going to be people who disagree with me on stuff like how I implicitly compare the HD800S and the HE1000).

First up, the Elear vs. Ether Open comparison:

To begin with, while the Ether has a mostly neutral overall sound signature (perhaps some would consider the bass a tad bit bumped up), the Elear has a more U-shaped signature. For another comparison, I would say that the Elear (FR-wise) sounds a bit like the Fostex TH-X00. Interestingly, this doesn't really mean that it has more apparent bass, but it does mean that it is somewhat brighter at the top end. However, this is done in a way so that the Elear still has some pretty clear mids.

Speaking of the top end, personally I like the Ether's better. It's somewhat more restrained so it pretty much never gets sibilant. So the Elear (with its relatively higher treble) can sound a tiny bit sibilant and unrestrained with certain music.

As for bass, I would say that at first listen, the bass on the Ether and the Elear are pretty similar - they're both decently punchy, with similarly good extension and control. However, the Ether still has that textured, really solid planar bass that the Elear doesn't quite have. It's hard to explain, but I find the bass presentation of planar headphones to be different from that of dynamics, and the Elear doesn't buck this trend.

As for overall detail, they're similar, but I simply feel that the Ether is more clear, and thus notes and instruments sound more true-to-life. This is not a tonality thing - I feel that there is a very, very slight veil on the Elear that prevents it from being as transparent as the Ether. Again, I must emphasize the "very, very slight" part.

Related to what I just said above is the mids - this extra bit of clarity simply makes the mids more come to life for me on the Ether. It also doesn't help that with the Elear, mids are a tiny bit subdued in comparison.

I feel that the soundstage of the Elear is a major weak point (at least in comparison to other headphones). Simply put, while the Ether doesn't have the widest soundstage, I felt it was a bit wider than the Elear. But more importantly, the Elear is definitely lacking some depth to its soundstage - everything just sounds closer to you on the Elear, and this is the main reason layering (distinguishing far and near sounds) is somewhat tougher on the Elear. However, imaging capability on the Ether and Elear is quite comparable to each other. Also, separation ability on the Ether and the Elear is very comparable to each other, though it may be a bit more difficult on the Elear due to how sounds are just closer to you.

Ether is lighter than the Elear, no doubt about it. However, I must say that the weight distribution on the Elear is quite good, and didn't prove too fatiguing for me even though I have a weak neck. However, whereas Ether almost disappears from my head once I put it on, with the Elear I still feel the weight, though it really isn't that distracting.

Now, for the Utopia vs. HD800S and HE1000 comparison:

HD800S sounds a bit bright compared to the Utopia. To me, the Utopia sounds more natural. When compared to the HE1000, the Utopia sounds a bit brighter, though it is not a very big difference. HE1000 and Utopia are very comparable to me in terms of a realistic sounding frequency response.

As for the treble, the HD800S sounds like it has too much of it compared to the Utopia and the HE1000. Cymbals are somewhat unrestrained, and higher notes just seem a bit too sharp and exaggerated on the HD800S. The Utopia is definitely better behaved in this respect. Same for the HE1000. I don't find the Utopia and the HE1000 to be wildly different in the treble, but perhaps the Utopia does do a very slightly better job in maintaining a balance between detailed and restrained treble.

For the mids, again the HD800S sounds a bit exaggerated in its presentation compared to the Utopia and the HE1000. So less dry and more lively mids on the Utopia and HE1000 IMO.

As for bass, the HD800S actually does a pretty decent job. It extends down decently low, and is well-controlled and textured. The Utopia has more bass, but is no less detailed, textured, or well-controlled than the HD800S. Pretty impressive. I would rate it very similarly to the bass on the HE1000, which I think highly of. However, the HE1000's bass seems to have that extra bit of solidity to it that the Utopia lacks, though I must emphasize that is not a very big difference.

In terms of overall detail level, there's no doubt in my mind that the Utopia is more detailed than the HD800S. The Utopia manages to sound clearer than the HD800S by having less exaggerated treble (so you can actually hear the cymbal fade away instead of it ringing for a tiny bit too long) and simply being slightly less veiled and thus presenting more texture to the notes. Compared to the HE1000, I find the Utopia to be slightly behind. I'm not really sure how to explain it, but the Utopia seems to have a very, very slight veil on its notes compared to the HE1000.

For soundstaging, like its sibling I find this to be the weak point of the Focal Utopia. I simply feel that the HD800S has a better soundstage. Not only is the HD800S' soundstage wider, it is also deeper (not by much, but enough). And at least for me, I more appreciate the somewhat more ethereal, Stax-like quality in that imaging on the HD800S is more effortless and notes just seem to appear around you. Also, due to the reduced depth, layering is harder to distinguish for me on the Utopia than the HD800S, though not by a big amount. As for the comparison to the HE1000, again I feel the Utopia lacks in width and depth in comparison. Again, layering is harder for me to distinguish on the Utopia compared to the HE1000, and imaging is more effortless on the HE1000 (though I don't believe the HE1000 beats the HD800S here).

Don't get me wrong, the Utopia also has very good imaging and separation abilities, but they're only very good and not exceptional.

And finally, the weight. The Utopia definitely feels much better on the head than any Audeze LCD headphone that I've tried - it's simply less heavy and it doesn't clamp as hard. If you can wear the HE1000 comfortably, you'll find no problems with the Utopia - they were about as comfortable as each other for me. Sennheiser HD800S is still the most comfortable to me due to how it tightly fits around your head without needing to clamp hard, and simply because it's the lightest.

Conclusions:

Elear: It's a decent headphone at the $1000 price point.  Personally, I liked the Ether better, and I would rather get that even if it is more expensive. However, I will say that this is somewhat due to my preferences in sound signature.

Utopia: This, to me, is now the world's best dynamic driver headphone. IMO it's better than the HD800S. Finally we have something using a dynamic driver that can really compete and to me, even beat Sennheiser's creation. However, I cannot really agree with the reports of it being better than the likes of planars and electrostats like the HE1000 and the Stax SR-009. Personally, I found that it couldn't beat the HE1000 (maybe tie it at best) and based on my previous experiences with the SR-009, the Utopia can't outperform that either.

(There was an SR-009 available for listen today, but the headband was broken so I didn't touch it.)

So is it worth the $4000 to me? No, it isn't. Personally, like @Khragon
said I would prefer it to be around the $2000 to $2500 range, because I do feel that it does improve upon the HD800S (and the build quality of the Utopia really is excellent) but not by that much money.

Even if I'm not the most known and trustworthy person on Head-Fi, hopefully people find these impressions to be helpful!

EDIT: I added in that I compared the Elear to the Ether open, not the Ether C.


Thanks. Just what I was looking for.
 
Jun 19, 2016 at 6:47 AM Post #477 of 5,632
@chowmein83 ...thanks so much for your thoughts and particularly comparisons to ETHER (which I know very well). If I had any inkling of picking up the Elear I've put that to rest and I'll stick with what I've got (ETHER, hd800 and hd650). 
 
Oh and don't worry, your opinion is plenty trustworthy around here IMO. 
biggrin.gif
  Again, thank you for taking the time. 
 
Jun 19, 2016 at 7:42 AM Post #478 of 5,632
  Slightly off topic...
 
I got a chance to get a quick audition of the Focal Listen yesterday, and I must say, it's a very competent headphone, particularly given it's $249 asking price.  Obviously, you won't get the detail, staging or imaging that you do from the Elear, much less the Utopia... but it's got a very nice tonal balance indeed (well-balanced overall with a very shallow U and slight upper-midrange accentuation).  If anyone is interested in this headphone, please let me know, and I'll try to gather more detailed impressions if I get a chance.

 
Yes please! I'd love to hear more impressions on the Listen and I'm surprised there are so few. Everyone's focused intently on the larger siblings even though all 3 launched together. Any comparisons with headphones in the same price bracket would be appreciated. :D
 
Edit: Don't want my wording to seem like I don't appreciate the few impressions that are already in the thread. Thanks for those who already spoke on the Listen! :D
 

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