[franz12]

Hi Guys . I am considering the Clear or maybe even the Utopia to replace my HEK v1. I use the Auralic Taurus MK2 headphone amp with a Devialet 200. Would the Focals be an improvement on the HEKs. I do love the sound of my current set up, but thats because I can only compare them with much inferior AKG 701s. However I now have a bit of cash and I have had the HEKs for 4 year now so fancy something different.
I wish i could describe the sound I like but I struggle with this. I have SF Olympica 2 speakers and I love the sound of these speakers. Rich with a sweet treble, so that may be a guide to what I would like to hear.

IMO, the HEK series have too much air in that it exposes a listener to every single noise outside, as they are extremely open. While their staging/imaging is very 3d and resolution is amazing, listeners should be in a very quiet environment to enjoy them.

But Focal headphones are less open. I don't necessarily consider this trait as their weakness, as I won't be bothered as much when my home gets noisy. Between the Clear and the Utopia, the Clear sounds more open than the Utopia. However, the Utopia has better bass (perhaps, thanks to rather semi-open structure?) and more resolving than the Clear. The Utopia does not have as much air as the HEK series, but soundstage is well rounded thanks to perforated pads.

HEK series have signature dip around 2k, but I found bumping 1.5db around 2k via EQ works quite well for a bit more up-front presentation. Overall, one is a hardly upgrade from the other.

 

[joseph69]

However, the Utopia has better bass (perhaps, thanks to rather semi-open structure?)

Opened back.

 

[franz12]

Opened back.

Yes, it is seemingly open, but it sounded more semi-open.
I often do a hand-detection-test by placing my hands outside ear cups while playing music. With more cup resonance, it would be more difficult to detect hands outside ear cups. Hands were barely detectable with the Utopia, but you can detect them immediately with a HEK.

 

[Ifalna]

One thing Ive learned in this hobby, never listen to anyones opinion on anything sound related. We are all so vastly different in our likes and dislikes, its moot unless you try it yourself.

While I agree that expensive amps, DACs and cables are usually indistinguishable from their cheap counterparts (read: an amp is either transparent or it has a certain signature, that has very little to do with objective quality differences), I wouldn't quite go that far.

I know what kind of sonic signature I like, knowing that and reading the descriptions about the Focal Utopia, I already realized that they would not be for me. The Clear is already at the upper limit of treble that I like, even more would be annoying to me. So, forums like these and subjective opinions are useful and have their place.

Agreed on the day to day difference in hearing. Some days the Clear sounds awesome... on other days, esp when I am beat from work, it is too much for my ears to handle and I prefer my more laid back and less lively DT-880.

Same goes for vision though. Never get your glasses made when you are tired, your eyes will be weaker. Human physiology is such a fickle thing. >.<

 

[Womaz]

Some great replies on here and all very helpful so thank you. You guys may even save me a bit of money
I admit to loving my HEKs , but as I said I have a bit of cash and fancy a change.
I find it impossible to audition up here and after reading your responses I would bot buy the Focal blind as it is so different to the HEK. I bought the HEK blind and it was a leap of faith, but I have no regrets.
I could keep an eye out for a used Utopia or Clear and give it a try, Worst comes to the worst and I have to sell it I may not lose a lot of cash. I think it may be the Utopia over the Clear though.
Thanks again to all who posted, very helpful.

 

[joseph69]

Hands were barely detectable with the Utopia, but you can detect them immediately with a HEK.

I definitely agree.
I've done the same and there's a big difference between the both.

 

[Womaz]

I may be wrong in making this assumption , but from the comments the HEKs maybe more speaker like. Space and airy probably the two things I value most . I have no issues with them letting noise in as I have a quiet listening envoirement .
I do have a massive urge to listen to the clear and utopia though. HEKs are an ugly headphone in my opinion but they are amazingly comfortable .
The clear and utopia look beautiful.......

 

[Drrizzt]

Clears are revealing enough that I wouldn't personally use them with any DAC that sells for under $800. You might be able to get a used Chord Mojo or Marantz HD-DAC1 for under $500. I would try and get a warm sounding DAC and amplifier because Focals with their metal drivers all have a cold sound signature.
I find that the output stage usually makes more of an audible difference than which DAC is used in the circuit. I think that MQA is mostly about marketing, and refuse to buy a DAC that will hardware decode it. Tidal's software decoding is enough for me. 90% of the recordings I have, I cannot tell the difference between Redbook and 24/96 or even 24/192. I could spend all day long switching between them in either Tidal or Windows. The mastering process is more important.

I strongly disagree. Something like The Micromega Mydac has EXCELLENT numbers when it comes to signal fidelity. Even the 70€ cheap Hifimediy 9018 is enough when it comes to dig into music details. Even slithgly more than the Mojo in the mediums.

 

[dan3952]

In that case, you probably don't know what you're missing, and may have an inferiority complex about people who can afford better gear. If you can't hear differences between a $400, $800 and $1500 DAC, that doesn't make it the case for others. That unit is good for the price. Every single DAC out there has good frequency response and distortion numbers these days, that doesn't mean there's not audible differences between them. I can tell different output stage op amps apart. The human ear can't tell 0.1% from 0.01% THD most times, and under 100 Hz, 1% from 0.1% isn't always discernible. The distortion is higher than the amp or DAC in just about any headphone used. I can't hear above 14,000 Hz at my age, that doesn't stop marketing people from using numbers far above the 20,000 Hz that I could hear when I was a child in their data sheets.

Let's have a look at their claims:

"Ultra-fast quiet power supply": no, not at that price. Probably a high noise one with lots of ripple, which is usually what you get when you don't use caps or chokes in a power supply. I've built power supplies myself that were over $200 just in parts.

"No capacitor in the path of the audio signal or power supply". In that case, Musical Fidelity and Chord's engineers must be incompetent for using them in their circuits as they do nothing but make the gear sound worse at a higher price.

WhatHiFi? said in their review:
Disadvantages:

• Not the most subtle of performers
• Can sound a bit too hard and bright

That's strike one, and strike two, for me. And I don't mind paying over $1000 to get rid of it.

From Darko Audio:
"Enter Micromega’s R&D director Daniel Schar.

“The reasons for the plastic case are more than one. The plastic case is an important part of the design. By choosing totally non-magnetic material, we are able to control all fields at the board level. This is more predictable than a metallic case.”, says Schar"

This man doesn't sound very bright. They also hadn't used any EMI abatement inside the case, like for example, foil shielding or chokes. There's probably noise sprayed all over the board.

“MyDAC is the only USB D/A converter in the market and in this price category to offer an onboard Switch Mode Power Supply especially designed for MyDAC"

That's because competent electrical engineers all know how noisy SMPS's are, and they move them far away from the EMI sensitive components on the board. My DAC and amp both have outboard power supplies.

I strongly disagree. Something like The Micromega Mydac has EXCELLENT numbers when it comes to signal fidelity. Even the 70€ cheap Hifimediy 9018 is enough when it comes to dig into music details. Even slithgly more than the Mojo in the mediums.

 

[Drrizzt]

Well, i'm not sure at all you'd be able to detect with a blind test the difference between a Mydac and something 10x costly.

This kind of test already been made and wasn't very successfull.

 

[TheGovernment]

Every single DAC out there has good frequency response and distortion numbers these days, that doesn't mean there's not audible differences between them. I can tell different output stage op amps apart.

It also doesn't mean there IS an audible difference.... It always seems like the better gear someone has, they instantly have the best hearing.....

 

[pbarach]

I can easily hear the difference between my Marantz HD-DAC1 and the DAC in my Denon 4400h AVR over speakers (I can't compare them over headphones). The Marantz gives more air around the instruments and sharper, clearer transients.

 

[TheGovernment]

I can easily hear the difference between my Marantz HD-DAC1 and the DAC in my Denon 4400h AVR over speakers (I can't compare them over headphones). The Marantz gives more air around the instruments and sharper, clearer transients.

Are they level, line and gain matched before you listen to them?

 

[Phronesis]

People can easily perceive differences between gear when they know what they're listening to. And a lot of advice is offered in this forum based on those perceptions. But there's a real lack of good evidence that the perceived differences are due to objective differences in the gear, and there's a ton of research showing that perceived differences are highly influenced by our expectations. So people looking for advice on what to buy would do well to take all recommendations based on perceived differences with a grain of salt, especially when the recommendations come from people who bought expensive gear and claim that the expensive gear sounds better - almost impossible for a person in that position to not be biased.

 

[pbarach]

Are they level, line and gain matched before you listen to them?

No, I didn't do this except to level match them using an SPL meter. And if I did all of those things and said I still heard differences, then I would be asked if I did double-blind testing. Then that wouldn't be good enough either. I won't go down that rabbit hole because it has no bottom.

I'm one of the people who hears an improvement when using my separate DAC in comparison to the DAC chip in my AVR. Since you haven't heard my system, you have no basis for stating there is no difference.