[cerbadan]

It's a been a while. Off the top of head, there was a volume difference since I was a using FiiO K9 Pro (ESS) and a FiiO BTR5, which have a more power drive the headphones. Sound wise, they all had the "Focal" sound, obviously. At the time, I didn't spend hours comparing them. It was more cursory than critical comparison.

Unfortunately, I'm in the middle of moving and trying to get organized. Half my stuff is packed in boxes. I'll try to remember when I finally get everything organized and setup. It maybe a few weeks.

Let me put it this way:

My phone is Honor Magic 5 Lite, and it supports Bluetooth 5.1 with BLE, SBC, AAC, LDAC.
Focal Bathys support SBC, AAC, aptX Adaptive, aptX.

So in my situation, using Bluetooth, I will get AAC at best.
However, if I would use a DAC/AMP like BTR15, which supports LDAC, aptX Adaptive, aptX LL, aptX HD, aptX, AAC, SBC,
I could get from my phone LDAC, which gets converted into analog 3.5 and is sent to Focal Bathys.

So, in my logic, even if Bathys transforms the analog signal into aptX and then back to 3.5 then it would still be better than using BT directly. If it transforms from analog to ACC, then yes, it would be useless to use a DAC/AMP. If Bathys would not transform from analog to digital and back, then it would be the best scenario to be able to give analog that was created from LDAC. Would actually be the best scenario for BT.

For me is not a question if to buy the Bathys, cause I most likely will, the question is if I can get any benefit from trying to get LDAC to analog conversion using BTR15, or is useless.

 

[evhvis]

Let me put it this way:

My phone is Honor Magic 5 Lite, and it supports Bluetooth 5.1 with BLE, SBC, AAC, LDAC.
Focal Bathys support SBC, AAC, aptX Adaptive, aptX.

So in my situation, using Bluetooth, I will get AAC at best.
However, if I would use a DAC/AMP like BTR15, which supports LDAC, aptX Adaptive, aptX LL, aptX HD, aptX, AAC, SBC,
I could get from my phone LDAC, which gets converted into analog 3.5 and is sent to Focal Bathys.

So, in my logic, even if Bathys transforms the analog signal into aptX and then back to 3.5 then it would still be better than using BT directly. If it transforms from analog to ACC, then yes, it would be useless to use a DAC/AMP. If Bathys would not transform from analog to digital and back, then it would be the best scenario to be able to give analog that was created from LDAC. Would actually be the best scenario for BT.

For me is not a question if to buy the Bathys, cause I most likely will, the question is if I can get any benefit from trying to get LDAC to analog conversion using BTR15, or is useless.

Every BT codec has flaws so going through more than one codec gives you multiple sets of artifacts. Each codec removes different parts of the spectrum to make it fit into the lower bit rate so it makes sense to avoid more than one conversion and the ideal is to convert from lossless (ALAC, FLAC, Wav or similar).

The 3.5mm is most likely converted to PCM or similar as it makes no sense for the ADC to use a compressed format. If you are going to use a wire then USB-C digital input is the purest path, anything else will add coloration. Some may prefer the coloration, but it doesn't change the fact that USB-C is the most correct path. For BT then I would use adaptive via dongle if possible. Plain Aptx is a step down in quality from adaptive and I always found the AAC implementation on the Bathys to be mediocre.

The Bathys were most likely constructed to always have DSP on, which is why there is no pure analog path. Most likely crossfeed going on at all times and the ANC is always on, one can only turn it down a bit when switching ANC modes instead of having the option to turn it off for some reason. Would have liked to turn off both as it would most likely improve sound quality a bit.

If you want a pure analog path then it would need to be the Dali IO-12, ML 5909 or T+A Solitaire T. Not heard the IO-12 and only have short listening session on the ML 5909, but I would put the 5909 a notch above the Bathys and the Solitaire T competes more with wired headphones in the Bathys price range than with the Bathys. The IO-12 is supposed to be similar to the Solitaire T in sound quality, but never listened to them as I found them too large to bring along as a travel/office headphone.

 

[Devodonaldson]

Let me put it this way:

My phone is Honor Magic 5 Lite, and it supports Bluetooth 5.1 with BLE, SBC, AAC, LDAC.
Focal Bathys support SBC, AAC, aptX Adaptive, aptX.

So in my situation, using Bluetooth, I will get AAC at best.
However, if I would use a DAC/AMP like BTR15, which supports LDAC, aptX Adaptive, aptX LL, aptX HD, aptX, AAC, SBC,
I could get from my phone LDAC, which gets converted into analog 3.5 and is sent to Focal Bathys.

So, in my logic, even if Bathys transforms the analog signal into aptX and then back to 3.5 then it would still be better than using BT directly. If it transforms from analog to ACC, then yes, it would be useless to use a DAC/AMP. If Bathys would not transform from analog to digital and back, then it would be the best scenario to be able to give analog that was created from LDAC. Would actually be the best scenario for BT.

For me is not a question if to buy the Bathys, cause I most likely will, the question is if I can get any benefit from trying to get LDAC to analog conversion using BTR15, or is useless.

Or you can get a Creative bt-w5 USB c APTX Adaptive transmitter and use that to transmit APTX Adaptive from your phone. That's what I did to upgrade from AAC with my iphone

 

[angelom]

The IO-12 is supposed to be similar to the Solitaire T in sound quality

No, the iO-12 and Solitaire T are NOT similar in sound quality -- I owning both at the same time (two times!) and they have a clearly different tonal balance. Both headphones are, for me, clearly the best 2 sounding ANC/BT headphones in the market today (and I owning before the ML 5909, Bathys, H95, PX8, AirPods Max and several others).

 

[evhvis]

No, the iO-12 and Solitaire T are NOT similar in sound quality -- I owning both at the same time (two times!) and they have a clearly different tonal balance. Both headphones are, for me, clearly the best 2 sounding ANC/BT headphones in the market today (and I owning before the ML 5909, Bathys, H95, PX8, AirPods Max and several others).

Similar as on a similar level, not same tonality

 

[jsmiller58]

No, the iO-12 and Solitaire T are NOT similar in sound quality -- I owning both at the same time (two times!) and they have a clearly different tonal balance. Both headphones are, for me, clearly the best 2 sounding ANC/BT headphones in the market today (and I owning before the ML 5909, Bathys, H95, PX8, AirPods Max and several others).

Between the IO-12 and Solitaire T, which one has the most natural tonality? Which one is the more “fun”?

 

[cerbadan]

Or you can get a Creative bt-w5 USB c APTX Adaptive transmitter and use that to transmit APTX Adaptive from your phone. That's what I did to upgrade from AAC with my iphone

That is absolutely awesome idea, as it would allow me to not wear a cable or a mini jack 3.5 to 3.5 adaptor and a BTR15 attached to Bathys.
Ofc, I will have to accept that my phone has a little "knot" in my pocket, but yes, I think is worth it.

As for the having to wear a cable, probably I would dump BT headphones all together, and stick with a wired headphone.
Is this a good idea if I want to stick to Bathys price range? Assuming that I will have to carry a BTR15 in my pocket connected to a pair of Focal Celestee maybe?

 

[cerbadan]

Every BT codec has flaws so going through more than one codec gives you multiple sets of artifacts. Each codec removes different parts of the spectrum to make it fit into the lower bit rate so it makes sense to avoid more than one conversion and the ideal is to convert from lossless (ALAC, FLAC, Wav or similar).

The 3.5mm is most likely converted to PCM or similar as it makes no sense for the ADC to use a compressed format. If you are going to use a wire then USB-C digital input is the purest path, anything else will add coloration. Some may prefer the coloration, but it doesn't change the fact that USB-C is the most correct path. For BT then I would use adaptive via dongle if possible. Plain Aptx is a step down in quality from adaptive and I always found the AAC implementation on the Bathys to be mediocre.

The Bathys were most likely constructed to always have DSP on, which is why there is no pure analog path. Most likely crossfeed going on at all times and the ANC is always on, one can only turn it down a bit when switching ANC modes instead of having the option to turn it off for some reason. Would have liked to turn off both as it would most likely improve sound quality a bit.

If you want a pure analog path then it would need to be the Dali IO-12, ML 5909 or T+A Solitaire T. Not heard the IO-12 and only have short listening session on the ML 5909, but I would put the 5909 a notch above the Bathys and the Solitaire T competes more with wired headphones in the Bathys price range than with the Bathys. The IO-12 is supposed to be similar to the Solitaire T in sound quality, but never listened to them as I found them too large to bring along as a travel/office headphone.

I understand.. So it seems 3.5 is a no go then..
How does usb-c wired compare to BT-W5 aptx adaptive dongle? Is it getting close enough to wired?

 

[evhvis]

I understand.. So it seems 3.5 is a no go then..
How does usb-c wired compare to BT-W5 aptx adaptive dongle? Is it getting close enough to wired?

The 3.5mm can be used, but it is mostly there as a last resort option, typically for flights or other cases where you only have analogue signal available.

Wired is a bit cleaner and slightly more detailed across the frequency spectrum and mid range is fuller on wired. I would say BT-W5 gets you about 90-95% of the USB-C sound quality with the most important difference for me being the midrange.

 

[evhvis]

There are a few things I wish Focal would change on the Bathys, most of them would be fixable in firmware. I do believe the changes would make it a better headphone overall, but one can't be fixed without a hardware revision or new model unfortunately and is something that is a major issue for me.

• Option to disable crossfeed
• Get rid of the last dip in the midrange on dynamic EQ
• Option to fully disable ANC
• Option for aptX-HD or LDAC
• Better passive isolation

The first 2-3 are probably what gives the fuzzy sound stage that feels like listening to a stereo in a room with lots of reflections. None of my 300€ or higher headphones have this issue. Most likely what gives the Bathys a large sound stage for a mid sized headphone, but I would rather have a cleaner more precise sound stage.

Most daps have aptX-HD and LDAC, but not aptX-Adaptive. I prefer to use a tiny DAP for my BT needs over draining my phone battery. The few daps that do support adaptive are quite expensive and weigh a lot and my Iphone only supports AAC so I'm stuck with either AAC, plain aptX or using a dongle that really drains the phone battery. My other ANC cans gives me either aptX-HD or LDAC which are both a good step up from AAC and aptX on high quality headphones. To make matters worse the AAC implementation on these are far behind the PX8 and Solitaire T, both of which have AAC at least as good as plain aptX if not slightly better.

Unfortunately even with ANC in soft mode these have isolation in office environments than most of my closed backs and are significantly behind all my other ANC cans in passive mode when it comes to blocking out voices. I pretty much have to run them in silent mode when in the office, which hurts sound quality quite a bit compared to soft. On my other ANC cans I can run in passive mode in the office unless people get really loud.

 

[NZtechfreak]

There are a few things I wish Focal would change on the Bathys, most of them would be fixable in firmware. I do believe the changes would make it a better headphone overall, but one can't be fixed without a hardware revision or new model unfortunately and is something that is a major issue for me.

• Option for aptX-HD or LDAC

I have aptX-Adaptive which is the newer codec and encompasses HD with my Bathys (Red Magic 9 Pro). How old is the source device?

 

[NZtechfreak]

I had meant to have a play around earlier with volume controls on Android, I hadn't got around to looking at it properly before now, but have just been mucking around with it since I have a new phone. Unlike my Samsung, the Red Magic 9 Pro doesn't neuter bluetooth codec support, but equally it doesn't have the Samsung Sound Assistant app to set volume steps either, hence the need for tinkering.

USB Audio Player Pro is fine, it has a separate software volume slider within the app to finesse volume (and unlike most other players has inbuilt UPnP/network play as well as Tidal and Qobuz support).

Similarly PowerAmp can directly let you set volume steps, all the way up to 100 steps, but is local-play only. While fooling around with PowerAmp I noticed it can also bypass Android audio resampling with options to Output via OpenSL ES or Direct HD (and you can set which which output method you use for which audio device, so you can have one for bluetooth, one for speakers, one for headphones etc). I need to play some more with Direct HD, since while OpenSL ES works it seems it is mostly used for gaming applications and isn't considered great for other audio applications. PowerAmp also has an info screen you can call up which maps the audio path through each step in the chain noting resampling and sampling rates at each, which is quite nice.

While looking in PowerAmp settings I noticed options for DVC (direct volume control), when DVC is on volume controls are all ceded to the headphone which will lock in the native Android audio 15 volume steps. You can turn this off and uncouple phone and headphone volume controls, which allows more control over volume. After that I was checking in Developer Options to confirm the bluetooth codec options, and I noticed that you can actually turn off DVC directly from there. Need to play some more, but this might be the path of least resistance for allowing sufficient control of volume steps through playback anywhere in the system on any app and on most (?any) Android device.

 

[DATDAMNGUY]

Does anyone know how to get Bathys working on an iPhone 15 pro via Dac Mode- USB-C? I just keep getting constant “This accessory uses too much power message” that I can’t clear.

 

[KF6GPE]

I just tried them with an iPhone 15 Pro or whatever the bigger iPhone 15 is, and it worked fine. Switch on the second (USB-C) click. Maybe the headphone battery is low and it’s trying to charge from the iPhone?

 

[DATDAMNGUY]

I just tried them with an iPhone 15 Pro or whatever the bigger iPhone 15 is, and it worked fine. Switch on the second (USB-C) click. Maybe the headphone battery is low and it’s trying to charge from the iPhone?

I tried fully charging the phone and still had the same message… not sure what it could be.