Focal Arche: Anyone compared to other options in its price range?
Mar 31, 2021 at 8:33 PM Post #226 of 362
I wanted to post about how much a streamer can affect the usb input on the Focal Arche. I recently added a linear power supply to my Stack Audio Link II and that really improved things. It got rid of the RFI that was making things a little bright and edgy. Now the bass has more presence in the mix but is completely controlled. Vocals are smooth and soundstage is more open.

I just tried playing the same song hooked up directly to my Intel Nuc roon core and it was surprisingly different for the worst. With the streamer, I was noticing how much I was enjoying the song and following the bass lines. But with the Nuc, you hear shaper, edgy vocals. The song is somewhat fatiguing. It was enough of a difference that I probably would be praising the Focsl Arche as much as I do.

Before this setup, I had the Chord Dave/mscaler and those have galvanized usb connection and claim source doesn’t matter but streamer still brought the same benefits. I don’t think the Arche is galvanized, so having a clean source is probably more important. Not sure how it handles optical input, since that is normally not recommended due to jitter but might not be an issue with today’s modern dacs. Chord are supposed to be jitter free regardless of the source.
Yeah this is interesting. I have been experimenting using a USB to SPDIF converter (Topping D10S) from my iMac with the following combinations to compare against USB straight from the iMac to the Arche:
  • USB to D10S/Digital coax to Arche DAC
  • USB to D10S/Toslink to Qutest/analog to Arche amp
There is a difference when not using the USB to the Arche but I want to listen a bit more before making any final conclusions, other than to say it is not a simple case of good vs bad - just different.
 
Mar 31, 2021 at 9:33 PM Post #227 of 362
Edit: Sorry to repeat myself since you quoted me already. But I did some more back and forth with basically some conclusions.

I mentioned before that the Arche usb connection improves with a linear power supplied streamer (Stack Audio Link II). I did a little more back and forth with the intel nuc usb vs the streamer the other day.

The streamer has deeper bass, smoother vocals and deeper soundstage. The intel nuc still sounded good but had a shallow soundstage and vocals seemed edgier. With the streamer, things sounded as good as I remember with the Chord Dave. At least as far as enjoyment and no listening fatigue.

I’m thinking the improvement has to do with RFI removal. However when I had the Dave I heard difference with optical from source to source and even differences between optical cables. Most of it had to do with the presentation of the soundstage. Differences were small. But with usb, just goig from Mac mini to MacBook Pro made a big difference, it made me seek out a great usb streamer.
 
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Mar 31, 2021 at 10:13 PM Post #228 of 362
I am looking to get the Oyaide Neo D+ Class USB cable for the Arche. Using just a generic printer cable at the moment. I am sure with the shielding etc it should improve things slightly.
 
Apr 1, 2021 at 4:01 AM Post #229 of 362
This track, focal Arche and Utopias - sublime soundstage. Infact this whole album is great for the experience.
I’ve just got a Hugo2 for portable and it can’t replicate it at all.
B10FAD30-4FEA-4B00-95B6-1DF578EBC019.jpeg
 
Apr 1, 2021 at 6:58 AM Post #230 of 362
Addicted to Audio back to temp me again for another week... :sweat:
 
Apr 4, 2021 at 11:15 PM Post #232 of 362
OK, apart from a very pleasant round of golf on Sunday morning followed by a family catch up, I have been using the long weekend to fool around with different scenarios feeding the Arche from my iMac using Audirvana with the exclusive mode setting and also comparing to a Chord Qutest/Topping A90 combo. I used both my Focal Clears and Hifiman Anandas for testing as well as a Cardas Clear USB cable and a Lifatec glass Toslink cable. A Topping D10S was used as a USB to SPDIF converter with Toslink. I'll preface my findings by clarifying that I do not have golden ears, I suck at describing differences in sound and any thoughts or preferences are purely subjective using my ears.....not yours :wink:

Focal Arche USB input vs Toslink
Based on historical issues with USB when I first got into digital audio, I've pretty much avoided it and use 100% SPDIF in my main speaker setup with an Allo Digione Signature streamer and digital room correction. That stance is probably very narrow minded today with USB implementations having come a long way with improvements such as galvanic isolation etc. now standard in most DACs. Interestingly, I can't find anything from Focal that indicates that the USB connection is galvanically isolated? I would be staggered if it's not given that much much cheaper DACs are but I guess you never know.

Both mediums have potential advantages and disadvantages over each other and a lot depends on the actual implementation of the equipment used:

USB:
  • Much higher bit depth & sample rates
  • Simple option for computer playback
  • Low jitter potential
  • Potential for electrical noise and ground loops
Toslink
  • Limited bit depth & sample rates (24/192 in my setup and I don't need more than that)
  • USB to SPDIF converter needed in most computer setups
  • Increased jitter (It is debatable whether this will actually be in the audible range based on nearly every measurement I've seen in modern delta sigma DACs)
  • Complete electrical isolation from the source
So, now on to the listening and you are going to be disappointed as it's far from conclusive. I used the hybrid amp setting exclusively and I made sure that the Arche USB connection was unplugged when using Toslink. I did both quick comparisons on single tracks and more sustained listening comparisons of 45 minutes or more. There were no typical Audiophool moments such as "veil lifting", "details I've never heard before" and "massively increased soundstage". The main difference was that USB always seemed a touch louder in my sighted testing? Was it adding something or was Toslink taking something away? Probably a moot point as my son was over on Saturday and neither of us did very well in picking one over the other in blind testing. I guess my one subjective takeaway from all of this is that I got the impression that I could listen longer without any hint of fatigue using Toslink but that could be attributed to all sorts of other factors to do with my mood, tiredness etc at the time. I guess the main thing is that I see no downside to using Toslink over USB if you need the added isolation benefit.

Focal Arche vs Chord Qutest/Topping A90 combo

I will start by admitting that I am a linear power supply junkie, ever since I replaced a particular wall wart in my main setup years ago and heard an immediate improvement, I have avoided cheap switching power supplies in my setups. This is probably overkill as I am not naive enough to think that all switching power supplies are detrimental to SQ but I err on the side of caution. In fact in a recent test I did, I had trouble finding any SQ differences with the Chord Qutest in my speaker setup feeding my MF M6 500i integrated amp and switching between the supplied wall wart and an SBooster LPS. Yes I thought the LPS might be better but it wasn't "night & day".This debate often rages in the Qutest thread here and Rob Watts is adamant that an LPS is unlikely to make a major difference and in fact could be detrimental to SQ. So from a logistical perspective, I set up the Qutest feeding the A90 in my desktop headphone setup with the wall wart powering it as I didn't want the bulky SBooster cluttering up my desk.

I won't go into details here other than to mimic some other impressions that you've probably read elsewhere, these were two completely different presentations with the Arche displaying it's AKM + class A amp nice wet mid bass compared to the tighter, analytical nature of the A90. The Qutest/A90 combo had the blackest of backgrounds, superior instrument separation etc but for both short & long term listening enjoyment the Arche was a winner.

Then for giggles, I lugged over the SBooster and replaced the wall wart on the Qutest. This changed everything - the Qutest/A90 combo still maintained it's redeeming features but was now much more relaxed and enjoyable with no hint of any harshness. This was perplexing, perhaps just a synergy thing or the fact that listening through headphones makes a major difference? Who knows? Who cares? :relaxed:

Now this was a much more interesting comparison and it honestly came down to a flavour preference with both setups shining on different genres and masterings. From a personal perspective I sometimes preferred the wonderful separation and detail retrieval of the Qutest/A90 and (in comparison) sometimes the unassuming "organic" fuller presentation of the Arche. The only point I will make here is that whilst the AKM DAC in the Arche has that nice signature mid bass bloom that AKM describes as their "velvet" sound, I find the upper mids and highs to be sometimes a little edgy compared to the Qutest. Also, the Qutest/A90 combo had the ability to provide "wow" moments on certain material. For example, playing the Hollies - Long Tall Woman in a Black Dress was amazing on my Anandas plugged into the A90 compared to the Arche, and this included running the Qutest into the Arche amp. With all those different guitar solos I felt like I could hear those fingers/plectrums doing their plucking and the separation between notes was superb.

That's enough rambling and my apologies for going off topic. I think the biggest takeaway for me has been the importance of system synergy when assessing individual
components. So which setup will stay on my desk? The answer for now is both of them, I really need more time to make sure. I really like the one box solution of the Arche over the separate components but it does have the occasional flakey moment, so let's see. I have more than one pair of headphones that compliment each other so I'll do the same for DACs & amps for the time being - I just need to do a bit of rearranging.
 
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Apr 5, 2021 at 12:36 PM Post #233 of 362
For me, it’s the wet mid bass you talk about that makes the Focal Arche with the Utopia’s. I found this disappeared when I changed to Voltage setting. With the Utopia setting the bass gives more weight, rhythm, and just more fun sound that my previous setups. The soundstage and tone are also very similar to what I remember with the Chord Dave with HF filter on. Just missing that last bit of detail that’s not really needed for type of music I listen to. Also not worth the extra $8000 to achieve that and then still need to buy $1200 Wave cable to remove RFI the mscaler produces. Felt I was going down a rabbit hole.

I don’t have issue with the treble harshness since I got the linear power supply for the Link II streamer. Even before I wouldn’t call it harsh, just leaning toward a slightly brighter sound.
 
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Apr 10, 2021 at 6:44 AM Post #234 of 362
Well the Arche has still been flakier than a German apple strudel. There continues to be the occasional random static electricity issues with planar headphones causing mild shocks, instances of complete loss of volume with the Sundaras in particular - requiring a restart and the unit just shutting down when I touch it no matter what cans I use. I have been getting at least one of these issues per day and more often than not it is two to three.

Yes I live in a very dry climate that is conducive to static issues but I get exactly ZERO of the same issues with either my RME ADI-2 or my Qutest/Topping A90 setup when used at my desktop. So, the Arche has been banished to a cupboard and maybe I'll try it again one day in a different situation or maybe give it to my son in law to try and see if he encounters the same.

No regrets - I basically paid $300 for it over the old retail price of the Clears in the bundle deal I got and I went in eyes wide open after reading about the issues some people had in the the Arche thread at headphones.com.
 
Apr 10, 2021 at 7:21 AM Post #235 of 362
Did you get a chance to try another IEC cable? Apart from the handshake issue and needing to replug it every day mine has been rock solid.
 
Apr 10, 2021 at 7:30 AM Post #236 of 362
Did you get a chance to try another IEC cable? Apart from the handshake issue and needing to replug it every day mine has been rock solid.
Yep - I tried every IEC cable in the house, tried different power outlet scenarios, different USB/coax/toslink cables etc.

Enjoy yours, a replug each day is no big deal :L3000:
 
Apr 10, 2021 at 8:13 AM Post #237 of 362
Yep - I tried every IEC cable in the house, tried different power outlet scenarios, different USB/coax/toslink cables etc.

Enjoy yours, a replug each day is no big deal :L3000:
You may think it's no big deal, but switching on/off and on again or a replug is no good for electronics. It's about time Focal should've sorted this little problem out. I am thinking of sending mine back to my dealer saying it's faulty and see what happens.
 
Apr 10, 2021 at 10:26 AM Post #238 of 362
You may think it's no big deal, but switching on/off and on again or a replug is no good for electronics. It's about time Focal should've sorted this little problem out. I am thinking of sending mine back to my dealer saying it's faulty and see what happens.
No big deal compared to the issues I've had :wink:

Overall I think the Arche is a lemon and wasn't fit for sale based on my experience and that of others. At the original price they were asking it shouldn't be anything less than flawless.
 
Apr 10, 2021 at 10:41 AM Post #239 of 362
No big deal compared to the issues I've had :wink:

Overall I think the Arche is a lemon and wasn't fit for sale based on my experience and that of others. At the original price they were asking it shouldn't be anything less than flawless.
Well, even if I don’t expect it to be flawless I do expect it to connect first time when I switch it on, as it should. Since I’ve had the Arche bought last August, I was told by the rep here in the UK that Focal are aware of this problem and are working on it. Other than this I think it’s a great amp....just fix this annoying bug.
 
Apr 10, 2021 at 11:44 AM Post #240 of 362
I’ve had my in ON mode for the last few weeks and haven’t had a single issue. It hasn’t gotten to warm and I like not have to wait for it to come out of sleep mode. It’s just always ready to go.
 

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