flinkenick's 17 Flagship IEM Shootout Thread (and general high-end portable audio discussion)
Feb 7, 2021 at 4:12 AM Post #27,376 of 39,414
For those enjoying their Oriolus Traillii in this thread, here's some interesting stories about the somewhat obscure brand. (Feel free to add more details or correct me if you know more!) Despite the fact that they market themselves as a Japanese brand in overseas markets, they're well known by the Chinese audiophile community as "Mini-Audio" or "The Old Man's Workshop" (more about the origin of the names in a bit), a small company specialized in Hi-Fi audio gears in the magical town of Shenzhen. Just take a look at their actual official website: http://www.mini-audio.com/miniaudio/, it's rather... "unassuming".

I don't know whether Oriolus is trying to play into the stereotype consensus where Japan and Germany are the "countries of craftsmanship" (it's probably not needed though, considering how HiFiMan etc. were able to make their name without the sugarcoating), or Cyras or Hibino actually has teams that contribute to R&D, but the founder of Oriolus, Rao You Liang, is most definitely the lead engineer behind Traillii. I recently read an article about Rao, after being blown away by Traillii in an audition: https://post.smzdm.com/p/a78eo3ql/, thought I should translate and share a few takeaways here.

First off, the "old man" himself (he'll be 52 this year) in his workshop:

16BmQGgl.jpg

CLCfxZu.jpg


And the place where he does his research:

QOyZ48x.jpg


1. He was nicknamed "the old man" by his colleagues in his early career because his family name "Rao" and the word "Lao" (meaning "old") are (a bit) homophonous, and he had a balanced attitude towards work (like a senior). He kind of accepted the nickname and has been using it himself since.

2. His company's branding is a bit messy (he has used Mini-Audio, Raosound Studio, The Old Man's Audio Workshop, and Oriolus), because he's been running a small business for years and thus he wasn't incentivized to build brand awareness back then (and he couldn't register the "mini audio" name he seemed to prefer due to legal reasons). He has mostly settled on the Oriolus name these days, although he still prints "Raosound Studio" and "The Old Man's Audio Workshop" on products on sale in China probably because the community is very familiar with them by now.

3. His products are a bit controversial within the Chinese audiophile community, but he doesn't care that much about public opinions (probably explains the pricing of Traillii and why he didn't launch it officially in China). In fact, his company doesn't have a marketing department at all, which might explain Traillii's humble packaging. He dedicates most of his resources to R&D and manufacturing, and leaves almost everything else to agents (Cyras, MusicTeck, etc.). He believes he should focus on making good products and letting them "speak for themselves", and "we can't cater for everyone, who has the freedom to choose, but the ones that love our products".

4. I saw some headfi-ers exclaimed over how Traillii could outshine many competitors without proprietary tech. In Rao's own words, he believes most of the Hi-Fi gear manufacturers don't actually own real core technologies because they're limited to downstream development; all they're doing (including his) is essentially customizations over what component manufacturers provide them (very true IMHO in many cases, although I’d still like to point out exceptions such as 64 Audio’s Apex tech, which vastly improves wearing comfort over long period of time). His team tries their best to keep in sync with the latest technologies upstream offers and research how to adapt them for their products. For instance, they got their hands on the electrostatic tweeters the moment Sonion announced the first version.

5. It's actually quite interesting to see Traillii included only BA and ES, considering Rao claimed in the late 2018 interview that "BA will never sound like DD", although he followed that he would still explore full BA architecture, with Oriolus Mellianus as an example (as some may know, Mellianus, or "the Silver Oriole", is their previous flagship IEM in 2018). We can see that Rao eventually followed Sonion's guidance on a BA + ES architecture in his next flagship Traillii, but tuned the BAs to a point where they sound very close to good DDs (IMO this is one heck of an achievement).

6. Rao actually care(d) about pricing! He said in the 2018 interview that "we'll also feel sorry for our customers if we priced (Oriolus Finschi) too high (because of cables)" (lol). He also believes in cables (another mystery solved lol), saying the reason he didn't include a cable with mic for Finschi, which mostly targets smartphone users, was "they mostly don't sound great, also custom ones are very expensive".
 
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Feb 7, 2021 at 7:08 AM Post #27,377 of 39,414
Yeah, it’s been pretty hard. It’s hard to bring in clients to my home studio due my dad having a weakened immune system. So it’s quite risky for me at the moment.
But those 10 shoots I had schedule for the summer getting cancelled was very hard to take in. To add to the pain, I had to return the deposits.
But oh well, I finally found something else to shoot in my home studio. So it’s getting better for my creativity. And I’ve never shot Audio gear before so it’s also a challenge. But it’s just so much fun!

And as for the M9 in my photos, yes those were mine. But unfortunately, I had to sell pretty much all of my photography gear that still held value a couple of years ago, due to my dad’s surgery at the time. He had to quit work so I had to take care of a lot of things.
Things got better since though and I was paving the way back into doing photography full-time again but the timing was just horrible.
Sorry to hear about your dad. I hope he has recovered well. It is a real shame you had to sell you gear because of it, but I would have done the same in a heartbeat. It is great to hear that you are bouncing back though. I am working to do that too after a combination of things (health, loosing a key project, etc) effectively killed my academic career. I now want to try and go freelance and I will need to build that from the ground up. Not great timing, but at least it gave me plenty of time to take care of the puppy.
Once you’re used to zone focusing with Leica M lenses, it can be as quick as auto focus, just snap away those precious moments for street photography :relaxed:
The reason I always wanted a Leica was an interest in doing something like documentary photography. Get a fairly unassuming camera and document life, writing the stories behind the images. These days though Leica is just priced way, way out of reach and I think Fuji has some really interesting alternatives with the X-Pro and X100 cameras. It's not quite the same, but you can keep your vital organs.
And I feel you man, the gear doesn’t have to be expensive to cross that bridge. Any Head-Fi gear that gives you emotion will take you there. That realm is something truly special.
Indeed. I find that emotion and joy can be found at any price in head-fi. Some of the most fun reviews I have done were more affordable IEMs that just make me forget about analysing and have me enjoy the music. The CustomArt FIBAE Black still top my ranking in that regard, along with something like the Final E5000.
 
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Feb 7, 2021 at 7:43 AM Post #27,378 of 39,414
Sorry to hear about your dad. I hope he has recovered well. It is a real shame you had to sell you gear because of it, but I would have done the same in a heartbeat. It is great to hear that you are bouncing back though. I am working to do that too after a combination of things (health, loosing a key project, etc) effectively killed my academic career. I now want to try and go freelance and I will need to build that from the ground up. Not great timing, but at least it gave me plenty of time to take care of the puppy.

Thank you very much! He’s doing really well now, but due to his condition. He can’t go back to work yet because of COVID. But thankfully our government is helping out with that.
Planting those seeds from the ground up has its challenges. But once you see that tree starting to grow, the fruits it’ll provide you be oh so sweet and worthwhile. There will be storms coming in but there will always be sunshine and rainbows after it leaves. We all just have to stay strong in these tough times we’re in. Just really happy to have these lovely IEMs and all of you audio comrades of mine!

And your pup is as cute as ever 😆


The reason I always wanted a Leica was an interest in doing something like documentary photography. Get a fairly unassuming camera and document life, writing the stories behind the images. These days though Leica is just priced way, way out of reach and I think Fuji has some really interesting alternatives with the X-Pro and X100 cameras. It's not quite the same, but you can keep your vital organs.

Fuji has been really killing it recently. I still wanna add a couple of their cameras to my bag. Namely the X-Pro3 and the X-H1. Outside of Hasselblad, I think Fuji has the best colour science out in the field right now. (Tho sometimes, I just wish they went for a FF sensor, I mean MF is great and all, but their design language for their MF cameras fall short of their amazing X bodies)


Indeed. I find that emotion and joy can be found at any price in head-fi. Some of the most fun reviews I have done were more affordable IEMs that just make me forget about analysing and have me enjoy the music. The CustomArt FIBAE Black still top my ranking in that regard, along with something like the Final E5000.

Since I have a bi-weekly rotation when I’m not reviewing other IEMs, I get to listen to all of my gear from old/cheap to new/expensive. I get to always go back and revisit why I decided to buy those IEMs I have.
It really takes me back to the start of my journey and shows me how much “further” I’ve come along this sonic adventure of ours.

But as usual, my journey is still continuing and will always do so. There’s just so much more to discover in this hobby of ours.
 
Feb 7, 2021 at 7:56 AM Post #27,379 of 39,414
Thank you very much! He’s doing really well now, but due to his condition. He can’t go back to work yet because of COVID. But thankfully our government is helping out with that.
Planting those seeds from the ground up has its challenges. But once you see that tree starting to grow, the fruits it’ll provide you be oh so sweet and worthwhile. There will be storms coming in but there will always be sunshine and rainbows after it leaves. We all just have to stay strong in these tough times we’re in. Just really happy to have these lovely IEMs and all of you audio comrades of mine!

And your pup is as cute as ever 😆




Fuji has been really killing it recently. I still wanna add a couple of their cameras to my bag. Namely the X-Pro3 and the X-H1. Outside of Hasselblad, I think Fuji has the best colour science out in the field right now. (Tho sometimes, I just wish they went for a FF sensor, I mean MF is great and all, but their design language for their MF cameras fall short of their amazing X bodies)




Since I have a bi-weekly rotation when I’m not reviewing other IEMs, I get to listen to all of my gear from old/cheap to new/expensive. I get to always go back and revisit why I decided to buy those IEMs I have.
It really takes me back to the start of my journey and shows me how much “further” I’ve come along this sonic adventure of ours.

But as usual, my journey is still continuing and will always do so. There’s just so much more to discover in this hobby of ours.
 
Feb 7, 2021 at 8:04 AM Post #27,380 of 39,414
So true. Still looking to add a bass emphasized set and closed planar. Maybe in 2021 something will be released that is comfortable and sounds incredible. The closest I have now on Bass is Mest, I did not like any of the EE sets. Like the sound of the MMR but the fit killed it for me. Same for Sony.
 
Feb 7, 2021 at 8:21 AM Post #27,381 of 39,414
The reason I always wanted a Leica was an interest in doing something like documentary photography. Get a fairly unassuming camera and document life, writing the stories behind the images. These days though Leica is just priced way, way out of reach and I think Fuji has some really interesting alternatives with the X-Pro and X100 cameras. It's not quite the same, but you can keep your vital organs.

Well I just sold my X-Pro3, although it’s a fun camera with its great film simulation, I just couldn’t gel with the resulting images. I still prefer the images from my trusty A7R4 and can’t wait to get my hands on that new 35mm GM :relaxed:

Indeed. I find that emotion and joy can be found at any price in head-fi. Some of the most fun reviews I have done were more affordable IEMs that just make me forget about analysing and have me enjoy the music. The CustomArt FIBAE Black still top my ranking in that regard, along with something like the Final E5000.

I can relate to this. I still keep my itsfitlab Fusion, which is priced sub-$1k, and it does perform admirably. I can even use it with BX-2 Plus on low gain without hiss :thumbsup:
 
Feb 7, 2021 at 8:28 AM Post #27,382 of 39,414
Fuji has been really killing it recently. I still wanna add a couple of their cameras to my bag. Namely the X-Pro3 and the X-H1. Outside of Hasselblad, I think Fuji has the best colour science out in the field right now. (Tho sometimes, I just wish they went for a FF sensor, I mean MF is great and all, but their design language for their MF cameras fall short of their amazing X bodies)

I was actually very intrigued by the Hassy 907x with its retro look :relaxed: but I guess the Sony R4 is more versatile, sort of an all-rounder camera (though not as “complete” as the new A1).
 
Feb 7, 2021 at 9:22 AM Post #27,383 of 39,414
Thank you very much! He’s doing really well now, but due to his condition. He can’t go back to work yet because of COVID. But thankfully our government is helping out with that.
Planting those seeds from the ground up has its challenges. But once you see that tree starting to grow, the fruits it’ll provide you be oh so sweet and worthwhile. There will be storms coming in but there will always be sunshine and rainbows after it leaves. We all just have to stay strong in these tough times we’re in. Just really happy to have these lovely IEMs and all of you audio comrades of mine!

And your pup is as cute as ever 😆
Great to hear. Work will come again, staying healthy is more important.

I know what you mean. I worked myself up from car mechanic to international academic working with world-leading scholars and getting really unique experiences. It always feels so special when all your effort starts to pay off and things fall into place, especially when you know you didn't get it for free. :)

Yeah, Barnie is super cute and I love him more every day. He is enjoying the very rare "snowstorm" (I use the word lightly) we are currently experiencing.
Barnie snow.JPG

Fuji has been really killing it recently. I still wanna add a couple of their cameras to my bag. Namely the X-Pro3 and the X-H1. Outside of Hasselblad, I think Fuji has the best colour science out in the field right now. (Tho sometimes, I just wish they went for a FF sensor, I mean MF is great and all, but their design language for their MF cameras fall short of their amazing X bodies)
I would love the X-Pro3 with a nice set of primes. I now only have zoom lenses (17-55mm f/2.8 and 100-400mm), but I suspect primes are more interesting and stimulate creativity.
Since I have a bi-weekly rotation when I’m not reviewing other IEMs, I get to listen to all of my gear from old/cheap to new/expensive. I get to always go back and revisit why I decided to buy those IEMs I have.
It really takes me back to the start of my journey and shows me how much “further” I’ve come along this sonic adventure of ours.

But as usual, my journey is still continuing and will always do so. There’s just so much more to discover in this hobby of ours.
Funny thing is that I would still be perfectly content with my old Ei.3 and AK70 pair, and I could never get rid of either, but it is indeed a lot of fun to keep exploring.
Well I just sold my X-Pro3, although it’s a fun camera with its great film simulation, I just couldn’t gel with the resulting images. I still prefer the images from my trusty A7R4 and can’t wait to get my hands on that new 35mm GM :relaxed:
The 35mm GM looks like a very nice lens. Sony do have some really nice glass. At the moment I am not very happy with Canon because of their main focus on RF lenses instead of EF and it feels like I would be better off to start with a clean slate if I would want to add a lens.
I can relate to this. I still keep my itsfitlab Fusion, which is priced sub-$1k, and it does perform admirably. I can even use it with BX-2 Plus on low gain without hiss :thumbsup:
I find it quite ironic at times how people are complaining about rising prices, when there is so much great gear being released at much more sensible prices. I still love the summit-fi, but there is no need to feel like you are missing out if you can't afford it.
 
Feb 7, 2021 at 9:48 AM Post #27,384 of 39,414
For those enjoying their Oriolus Traillii in this thread, here's some interesting stories about the somewhat obscure brand. (Feel free to add more details or correct me if you know more!) Despite the fact that they market themselves as a Japanese brand in overseas markets, they're well known by the Chinese audiophile community as "Mini-Audio" or "The Old Man's Workshop" (more about the origin of the names in a bit), a small company specialized in Hi-Fi audio gears in the magical town of Shenzhen. Just take a look at their actual official website: http://www.mini-audio.com/miniaudio/, it's rather... "unassuming".

I don't know whether Oriolus is trying to play into the stereotype consensus where Japan and Germany are the "countries of craftsmanship" (it's probably not needed though, considering how HiFiMan etc. were able to make their name without the sugarcoating), or Cyras or Hibino actually has teams that contribute to R&D, but the founder of Oriolus, Rao You Liang, is most definitely the lead engineer behind Traillii. I recently read an article about Rao, after being blown away by Traillii in an audition: https://post.smzdm.com/p/a78eo3ql/, thought I should translate and share a few takeaways here.

First off, the "old man" himself (he'll be 52 this year) in his workshop:

16BmQGgl.jpg

CLCfxZu.jpg


And the place where he does his research:

QOyZ48x.jpg


1. He was nicknamed "the old man" by his colleagues in his early career because his family name "Rao" and the word "Lao" (meaning "old") are (a bit) homophonous, and he had a balanced attitude towards work (like a senior). He kind of accepted the nickname and has been using it himself since.

2. His company's branding is a bit messy (he has used Mini-Audio, Raosound Studio, The Old Man's Audio Workshop, and Oriolus), because he's been running a small business for years and thus he wasn't incentivized to build brand awareness back then (and he couldn't register the "mini audio" name he seemed to prefer due to legal reasons). He has mostly settled on the Oriolus name these days, although he still prints "Raosound Studio" and "The Old Man's Audio Workshop" on products on sale in China probably because the community is very familiar with them by now.

3. His products are a bit controversial within the Chinese audiophile community, but he doesn't care that much about public opinions (probably explains the pricing of Traillii and why he didn't launch it officially in China). In fact, his company doesn't have a marketing department at all, which might explain Traillii's humble packaging. He dedicates most of his resources to R&D and manufacturing, and leaves almost everything else to agents (Cyras, MusicTeck, etc.). He believes he should focus on making good products and letting them "speak for themselves", and "we can't cater for everyone, who has the freedom to choose, but the ones that love our products".

4. I saw some headfi-ers exclaimed over how Traillii could outshine many competitors without proprietary tech. In Rao's own words, he believes most of the Hi-Fi gear manufacturers don't actually own real core technologies because they're limited to downstream development; all they're doing (including his) is essentially customizations over what component manufacturers provide them (very true IMHO in many cases, although I’d still like to point out exceptions such as 64 Audio’s Apex tech, which vastly improves wearing comfort over long period of time). His team tries their best to keep in sync with the latest technologies upstream offers and research how to adapt them for their products. For instance, they got their hands on the electrostatic tweeters the moment Sonion announced the first version.

5. It's actually quite interesting to see Traillii included only BA and ES, considering Rao claimed in the late 2018 interview that "BA will never sound like DD", although he followed that he would still explore full BA architecture, with Oriolus Mellianus as an example (as some may know, Mellianus, or "the Silver Oriole", is their previous flagship IEM in 2018). We can see that Rao eventually followed Sonion's guidance on a BA + ES architecture in his next flagship Traillii, but tuned the BAs to a point where they sound very close to good DDs (IMO this is one heck of an achievement).

6. Rao actually care(d) about pricing! He said in the 2018 interview that "we'll also feel sorry for our customers if we priced (Oriolus Finschi) too high (because of cables)" (lol). He also believes in cables (another mystery solved lol), saying the reason he didn't include a cable with mic for Finschi, which mostly targets smartphone users, was "they mostly don't sound great, also custom ones are very expensive".
😮

that was interesting and unexpected, thanks.
 
Feb 7, 2021 at 10:22 AM Post #27,385 of 39,414
For those enjoying their Oriolus Traillii in this thread, here's some interesting stories about the somewhat obscure brand. (Feel free to add more details or correct me if you know more!) Despite the fact that they market themselves as a Japanese brand in overseas markets, they're well known by the Chinese audiophile community as "Mini-Audio" or "The Old Man's Workshop" (more about the origin of the names in a bit), a small company specialized in Hi-Fi audio gears in the magical town of Shenzhen. Just take a look at their actual official website: http://www.mini-audio.com/miniaudio/, it's rather... "unassuming".

I don't know whether Oriolus is trying to play into the stereotype consensus where Japan and Germany are the "countries of craftsmanship" (it's probably not needed though, considering how HiFiMan etc. were able to make their name without the sugarcoating), or Cyras or Hibino actually has teams that contribute to R&D, but the founder of Oriolus, Rao You Liang, is most definitely the lead engineer behind Traillii. I recently read an article about Rao, after being blown away by Traillii in an audition: https://post.smzdm.com/p/a78eo3ql/, thought I should translate and share a few takeaways here.

First off, the "old man" himself (he'll be 52 this year) in his workshop:

16BmQGgl.jpg

CLCfxZu.jpg


And the place where he does his research:

QOyZ48x.jpg


1. He was nicknamed "the old man" by his colleagues in his early career because his family name "Rao" and the word "Lao" (meaning "old") are (a bit) homophonous, and he had a balanced attitude towards work (like a senior). He kind of accepted the nickname and has been using it himself since.

2. His company's branding is a bit messy (he has used Mini-Audio, Raosound Studio, The Old Man's Audio Workshop, and Oriolus), because he's been running a small business for years and thus he wasn't incentivized to build brand awareness back then (and he couldn't register the "mini audio" name he seemed to prefer due to legal reasons). He has mostly settled on the Oriolus name these days, although he still prints "Raosound Studio" and "The Old Man's Audio Workshop" on products on sale in China probably because the community is very familiar with them by now.

3. His products are a bit controversial within the Chinese audiophile community, but he doesn't care that much about public opinions (probably explains the pricing of Traillii and why he didn't launch it officially in China). In fact, his company doesn't have a marketing department at all, which might explain Traillii's humble packaging. He dedicates most of his resources to R&D and manufacturing, and leaves almost everything else to agents (Cyras, MusicTeck, etc.). He believes he should focus on making good products and letting them "speak for themselves", and "we can't cater for everyone, who has the freedom to choose, but the ones that love our products".

4. I saw some headfi-ers exclaimed over how Traillii could outshine many competitors without proprietary tech. In Rao's own words, he believes most of the Hi-Fi gear manufacturers don't actually own real core technologies because they're limited to downstream development; all they're doing (including his) is essentially customizations over what component manufacturers provide them (very true IMHO in many cases, although I’d still like to point out exceptions such as 64 Audio’s Apex tech, which vastly improves wearing comfort over long period of time). His team tries their best to keep in sync with the latest technologies upstream offers and research how to adapt them for their products. For instance, they got their hands on the electrostatic tweeters the moment Sonion announced the first version.

5. It's actually quite interesting to see Traillii included only BA and ES, considering Rao claimed in the late 2018 interview that "BA will never sound like DD", although he followed that he would still explore full BA architecture, with Oriolus Mellianus as an example (as some may know, Mellianus, or "the Silver Oriole", is their previous flagship IEM in 2018). We can see that Rao eventually followed Sonion's guidance on a BA + ES architecture in his next flagship Traillii, but tuned the BAs to a point where they sound very close to good DDs (IMO this is one heck of an achievement).

6. Rao actually care(d) about pricing! He said in the 2018 interview that "we'll also feel sorry for our customers if we priced (Oriolus Finschi) too high (because of cables)" (lol). He also believes in cables (another mystery solved lol), saying the reason he didn't include a cable with mic for Finschi, which mostly targets smartphone users, was "they mostly don't sound great, also custom ones are very expensive".

Really interesting read. Where did Japan come in to the mix? China craft and technical prowess has changed everything for the better. Germany US Japan are no slouches either. It is a global market though such as autos made in only one country not really. I thought the Traillii was a joint China/Japan produced product? Also if it was not for Andrew of MusicTeck I would not have bought one. Seems discussion about this IEM is picking up lately.
 
Feb 7, 2021 at 11:06 AM Post #27,386 of 39,414
For those enjoying their Oriolus Traillii in this thread, here's some interesting stories about the somewhat obscure brand. (Feel free to add more details or correct me if you know more!) Despite the fact that they market themselves as a Japanese brand in overseas markets, they're well known by the Chinese audiophile community as "Mini-Audio" or "The Old Man's Workshop" (more about the origin of the names in a bit), a small company specialized in Hi-Fi audio gears in the magical town of Shenzhen. Just take a look at their actual official website: http://www.mini-audio.com/miniaudio/, it's rather... "unassuming".

I don't know whether Oriolus is trying to play into the stereotype consensus where Japan and Germany are the "countries of craftsmanship" (it's probably not needed though, considering how HiFiMan etc. were able to make their name without the sugarcoating), or Cyras or Hibino actually has teams that contribute to R&D, but the founder of Oriolus, Rao You Liang, is most definitely the lead engineer behind Traillii. I recently read an article about Rao, after being blown away by Traillii in an audition: https://post.smzdm.com/p/a78eo3ql/, thought I should translate and share a few takeaways here.

First off, the "old man" himself (he'll be 52 this year) in his workshop:

16BmQGgl.jpg

CLCfxZu.jpg


And the place where he does his research:

QOyZ48x.jpg


1. He was nicknamed "the old man" by his colleagues in his early career because his family name "Rao" and the word "Lao" (meaning "old") are (a bit) homophonous, and he had a balanced attitude towards work (like a senior). He kind of accepted the nickname and has been using it himself since.

2. His company's branding is a bit messy (he has used Mini-Audio, Raosound Studio, The Old Man's Audio Workshop, and Oriolus), because he's been running a small business for years and thus he wasn't incentivized to build brand awareness back then (and he couldn't register the "mini audio" name he seemed to prefer due to legal reasons). He has mostly settled on the Oriolus name these days, although he still prints "Raosound Studio" and "The Old Man's Audio Workshop" on products on sale in China probably because the community is very familiar with them by now.

3. His products are a bit controversial within the Chinese audiophile community, but he doesn't care that much about public opinions (probably explains the pricing of Traillii and why he didn't launch it officially in China). In fact, his company doesn't have a marketing department at all, which might explain Traillii's humble packaging. He dedicates most of his resources to R&D and manufacturing, and leaves almost everything else to agents (Cyras, MusicTeck, etc.). He believes he should focus on making good products and letting them "speak for themselves", and "we can't cater for everyone, who has the freedom to choose, but the ones that love our products".

4. I saw some headfi-ers exclaimed over how Traillii could outshine many competitors without proprietary tech. In Rao's own words, he believes most of the Hi-Fi gear manufacturers don't actually own real core technologies because they're limited to downstream development; all they're doing (including his) is essentially customizations over what component manufacturers provide them (very true IMHO in many cases, although I’d still like to point out exceptions such as 64 Audio’s Apex tech, which vastly improves wearing comfort over long period of time). His team tries their best to keep in sync with the latest technologies upstream offers and research how to adapt them for their products. For instance, they got their hands on the electrostatic tweeters the moment Sonion announced the first version.

5. It's actually quite interesting to see Traillii included only BA and ES, considering Rao claimed in the late 2018 interview that "BA will never sound like DD", although he followed that he would still explore full BA architecture, with Oriolus Mellianus as an example (as some may know, Mellianus, or "the Silver Oriole", is their previous flagship IEM in 2018). We can see that Rao eventually followed Sonion's guidance on a BA + ES architecture in his next flagship Traillii, but tuned the BAs to a point where they sound very close to good DDs (IMO this is one heck of an achievement).

6. Rao actually care(d) about pricing! He said in the 2018 interview that "we'll also feel sorry for our customers if we priced (Oriolus Finschi) too high (because of cables)" (lol). He also believes in cables (another mystery solved lol), saying the reason he didn't include a cable with mic for Finschi, which mostly targets smartphone users, was "they mostly don't sound great, also custom ones are very expensive".
Thanks for sharing that, it's an interesting read. :thumbsup:
 
Feb 7, 2021 at 11:59 AM Post #27,387 of 39,414
For those enjoying their Oriolus Traillii in this thread, here's some interesting stories about the somewhat obscure brand. (Feel free to add more details or correct me if you know more!) Despite the fact that they market themselves as a Japanese brand in overseas markets, they're well known by the Chinese audiophile community as "Mini-Audio" or "The Old Man's Workshop" (more about the origin of the names in a bit), a small company specialized in Hi-Fi audio gears in the magical town of Shenzhen. Just take a look at their actual official website: http://www.mini-audio.com/miniaudio/, it's rather... "unassuming".

I don't know whether Oriolus is trying to play into the stereotype consensus where Japan and Germany are the "countries of craftsmanship" (it's probably not needed though, considering how HiFiMan etc. were able to make their name without the sugarcoating), or Cyras or Hibino actually has teams that contribute to R&D, but the founder of Oriolus, Rao You Liang, is most definitely the lead engineer behind Traillii. I recently read an article about Rao, after being blown away by Traillii in an audition: https://post.smzdm.com/p/a78eo3ql/, thought I should translate and share a few takeaways here.

First off, the "old man" himself (he'll be 52 this year) in his workshop:

16BmQGgl.jpg

CLCfxZu.jpg


And the place where he does his research:

QOyZ48x.jpg


1. He was nicknamed "the old man" by his colleagues in his early career because his family name "Rao" and the word "Lao" (meaning "old") are (a bit) homophonous, and he had a balanced attitude towards work (like a senior). He kind of accepted the nickname and has been using it himself since.

2. His company's branding is a bit messy (he has used Mini-Audio, Raosound Studio, The Old Man's Audio Workshop, and Oriolus), because he's been running a small business for years and thus he wasn't incentivized to build brand awareness back then (and he couldn't register the "mini audio" name he seemed to prefer due to legal reasons). He has mostly settled on the Oriolus name these days, although he still prints "Raosound Studio" and "The Old Man's Audio Workshop" on products on sale in China probably because the community is very familiar with them by now.

3. His products are a bit controversial within the Chinese audiophile community, but he doesn't care that much about public opinions (probably explains the pricing of Traillii and why he didn't launch it officially in China). In fact, his company doesn't have a marketing department at all, which might explain Traillii's humble packaging. He dedicates most of his resources to R&D and manufacturing, and leaves almost everything else to agents (Cyras, MusicTeck, etc.). He believes he should focus on making good products and letting them "speak for themselves", and "we can't cater for everyone, who has the freedom to choose, but the ones that love our products".

4. I saw some headfi-ers exclaimed over how Traillii could outshine many competitors without proprietary tech. In Rao's own words, he believes most of the Hi-Fi gear manufacturers don't actually own real core technologies because they're limited to downstream development; all they're doing (including his) is essentially customizations over what component manufacturers provide them (very true IMHO in many cases, although I’d still like to point out exceptions such as 64 Audio’s Apex tech, which vastly improves wearing comfort over long period of time). His team tries their best to keep in sync with the latest technologies upstream offers and research how to adapt them for their products. For instance, they got their hands on the electrostatic tweeters the moment Sonion announced the first version.

5. It's actually quite interesting to see Traillii included only BA and ES, considering Rao claimed in the late 2018 interview that "BA will never sound like DD", although he followed that he would still explore full BA architecture, with Oriolus Mellianus as an example (as some may know, Mellianus, or "the Silver Oriole", is their previous flagship IEM in 2018). We can see that Rao eventually followed Sonion's guidance on a BA + ES architecture in his next flagship Traillii, but tuned the BAs to a point where they sound very close to good DDs (IMO this is one heck of an achievement).

6. Rao actually care(d) about pricing! He said in the 2018 interview that "we'll also feel sorry for our customers if we priced (Oriolus Finschi) too high (because of cables)" (lol). He also believes in cables (another mystery solved lol), saying the reason he didn't include a cable with mic for Finschi, which mostly targets smartphone users, was "they mostly don't sound great, also custom ones are very expensive".
Thanks for the information. So Oriolus is not Japanese at all and is actually based in Shenzhen, China. Interesting read. Tks.
 
Feb 7, 2021 at 12:17 PM Post #27,388 of 39,414
For those enjoying their Oriolus Traillii in this thread, here's some interesting stories about the somewhat obscure brand. (Feel free to add more details or correct me if you know more!) Despite the fact that they market themselves as a Japanese brand in overseas markets, they're well known by the Chinese audiophile community as "Mini-Audio" or "The Old Man's Workshop" (more about the origin of the names in a bit), a small company specialized in Hi-Fi audio gears in the magical town of Shenzhen. Just take a look at their actual official website: http://www.mini-audio.com/miniaudio/, it's rather... "unassuming".

I don't know whether Oriolus is trying to play into the stereotype consensus where Japan and Germany are the "countries of craftsmanship" (it's probably not needed though, considering how HiFiMan etc. were able to make their name without the sugarcoating), or Cyras or Hibino actually has teams that contribute to R&D, but the founder of Oriolus, Rao You Liang, is most definitely the lead engineer behind Traillii. I recently read an article about Rao, after being blown away by Traillii in an audition: https://post.smzdm.com/p/a78eo3ql/, thought I should translate and share a few takeaways here.

First off, the "old man" himself (he'll be 52 this year) in his workshop:

16BmQGgl.jpg

CLCfxZu.jpg


And the place where he does his research:

QOyZ48x.jpg


1. He was nicknamed "the old man" by his colleagues in his early career because his family name "Rao" and the word "Lao" (meaning "old") are (a bit) homophonous, and he had a balanced attitude towards work (like a senior). He kind of accepted the nickname and has been using it himself since.

2. His company's branding is a bit messy (he has used Mini-Audio, Raosound Studio, The Old Man's Audio Workshop, and Oriolus), because he's been running a small business for years and thus he wasn't incentivized to build brand awareness back then (and he couldn't register the "mini audio" name he seemed to prefer due to legal reasons). He has mostly settled on the Oriolus name these days, although he still prints "Raosound Studio" and "The Old Man's Audio Workshop" on products on sale in China probably because the community is very familiar with them by now.

3. His products are a bit controversial within the Chinese audiophile community, but he doesn't care that much about public opinions (probably explains the pricing of Traillii and why he didn't launch it officially in China). In fact, his company doesn't have a marketing department at all, which might explain Traillii's humble packaging. He dedicates most of his resources to R&D and manufacturing, and leaves almost everything else to agents (Cyras, MusicTeck, etc.). He believes he should focus on making good products and letting them "speak for themselves", and "we can't cater for everyone, who has the freedom to choose, but the ones that love our products".

4. I saw some headfi-ers exclaimed over how Traillii could outshine many competitors without proprietary tech. In Rao's own words, he believes most of the Hi-Fi gear manufacturers don't actually own real core technologies because they're limited to downstream development; all they're doing (including his) is essentially customizations over what component manufacturers provide them (very true IMHO in many cases, although I’d still like to point out exceptions such as 64 Audio’s Apex tech, which vastly improves wearing comfort over long period of time). His team tries their best to keep in sync with the latest technologies upstream offers and research how to adapt them for their products. For instance, they got their hands on the electrostatic tweeters the moment Sonion announced the first version.

5. It's actually quite interesting to see Traillii included only BA and ES, considering Rao claimed in the late 2018 interview that "BA will never sound like DD", although he followed that he would still explore full BA architecture, with Oriolus Mellianus as an example (as some may know, Mellianus, or "the Silver Oriole", is their previous flagship IEM in 2018). We can see that Rao eventually followed Sonion's guidance on a BA + ES architecture in his next flagship Traillii, but tuned the BAs to a point where they sound very close to good DDs (IMO this is one heck of an achievement).

6. Rao actually care(d) about pricing! He said in the 2018 interview that "we'll also feel sorry for our customers if we priced (Oriolus Finschi) too high (because of cables)" (lol). He also believes in cables (another mystery solved lol), saying the reason he didn't include a cable with mic for Finschi, which mostly targets smartphone users, was "they mostly don't sound great, also custom ones are very expensive".
Hi, your discovery is very interesting to me ! I also understood that this Japanese company is almost a jungle of various companies of which Oriolus is part and I read indeed that there was some link to China - but you highlight some very interesting points. I don't mind if the Chinese build this product - all the used drivers are anyway from Sonion (as you already mention) and that the Photopolymer is sourced from Germany is fine for me as well. Assemble and the magic of putting all together to sound great is the magic of this "Mr. Lao".
If it wasn't for Covid- 19 i would be normally 2-3 times a year in Hong Kong and Shenzhen and could investigate more about this (and I will certainly have a deeper look into this "Oriolus construcion" once i can travel there again. The web links are interesting and I will also continue to study for my own interest at least. There is no question that there is simply ZERO attention on marketing for this product - several people who use (like me) or tested the Traillii actually make the whole marketing for this product (free of charge of course) by the sheer fact of the excitement we have using it.
So thank you very much for this very interesting discovery ! I am also a Mr. Lao by now - and i like engineers who focus on good products and leave the rest to other people., like the obviously famous Mr. Andrew from Music Teck who i also bought from ....
 
Feb 7, 2021 at 12:56 PM Post #27,389 of 39,414
Really interesting read. Where did Japan come in to the mix? China craft and technical prowess has changed everything for the better. Germany US Japan are no slouches either. It is a global market though such as autos made in only one country not really. I thought the Traillii was a joint China/Japan produced product? Also if it was not for Andrew of MusicTeck I would not have bought one. Seems discussion about this IEM is picking up lately.

I wasn’t very familiar with / interested in the brand before till Traillii, and it was actually the price that first got my attention! This must all be part of some grand marketing scheme :thinking:

I too found it surprising after I knew more about the brand, I thought at the time that this was like a joint venture among 3 companies, then I saw Rao’s interview that discussed some of their prior Oriolus IEMs, including Mellianus, and he talked like there was no third party involved in R&D at all, that’s when I started to suspect Cyras may be responsible only for marketing etc. I also glanced thru some of the Chinese hi-fi forums, people discussing Traillii there also referred to the firm as just “The Old Man(’s Workshop)”, which refers to the Shenzhen firm only.
 
Last edited:
Feb 7, 2021 at 12:56 PM Post #27,390 of 39,414
Hi, your discovery is very interesting to me ! I also understood that this Japanese company is almost a jungle of various companies of which Oriolus is part and I read indeed that there was some link to China - but you highlight some very interesting points. I don't mind if the Chinese build this product - all the used drivers are anyway from Sonion (as you already mention) and that the Photopolymer is sourced from Germany is fine for me as well. Assemble and the magic of putting all together to sound great is the magic of this "Mr. Lao".
If it wasn't for Covid- 19 i would be normally 2-3 times a year in Hong Kong and Shenzhen and could investigate more about this (and I will certainly have a deeper look into this "Oriolus construcion" once i can travel there again. The web links are interesting and I will also continue to study for my own interest at least. There is no question that there is simply ZERO attention on marketing for this product - several people who use (like me) or tested the Traillii actually make the whole marketing for this product (free of charge of course) by the sheer fact of the excitement we have using it.
So thank you very much for this very interesting discovery ! I am also a Mr. Lao by now - and i like engineers who focus on good products and leave the rest to other people., like the obviously famous Mr. Andrew from Music Teck who i also bought from ....
Interesting


The origin of the Oriolus series

Speaking of the Oriolus plug series, we must start with the Mini Audio.

Founded in 2006, Mini Audio is mainly engaged in the R&D, production and sales of audio-based Hi-Fi products. In 2006, it developed the world's first portable audio amplifier MAD-01 powered by two industrial lithium batteries and the first portable amp MAP-212 with replaceable mobile phone battery. And the studio first applied balanced amplifier to the headphone amplifier. In 2011, the Android platform was used to develop the world's first reference-level audio player DX100. Today, the company has a large number of classic products, audio decoders (DAC), audio players and headphone amplifiers. Mini Audio enjoys a reputation in the industry for its innovative spirit and has received praise and support from a large number of users.

Since 1993, the founder of the studio has been engaged in the design and development of home audio in the foreign companies, mainly was the OEM and ODM of Tianlong, Tom, Lion, Harman Kardon, Marantz, Soundcraft, cyrrus and other well-known audio brands with extensive product development experience. Many members of the MiniAudio development team have been in the audio product development field for more than 20 years. The senior R&D team is the guarantee of quality and performance!

Hibino Intersound is a large-scale professional audio equipment distributor in Japan. It has been working with Mini Audio for many years and recognizes Mini Audio's technology and tuning style. So Hibino asked for his own understanding of the HIFI market, and asked Mini Audio to develop a high-end earphone. Over the past two years, an earphone with a fascinating sound that can be touched by music enthusiasts! The sound from the earphones are so clear and pleasing to the ear, it is easy to reminiscent of the call of oriole standing on the branch, so it was named Oriolus. Chinensis, Chinese name Black-naped Oriole, referred to as Hei Haungli! The fans nicknamed the bird plug!

First product and then the brand Oriolus born!

Oriolus went public on May 28, 2015

Forsteni went public on September 28, 2016

Mellianus went public on on September 18, 2017
 

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