[Jonathan Dunham]

My biggest sound concern is and always has been immersion. I'm looking for a sound that makes me forget I'm wearing IEMs, a powerful musical sound with a soundstage that I cannot sense the end of. A wide, deep, spacious, even cavernous sound. An organic, smooth, non-analytical mid-range (non-abrasive) with complimentary treble.

If anyone had heard the Acoustune HS1551, that kind of spacious only with higher resolution and even wider, enveloping stage.

Does the Flare Pro 2 HD achieve this kind of sound? Can anyone articulate in detail the stage dimensions, imaging, layering, separation, 3D-ness, transparency?

My comments FWIW.

Firstly, a slight caveat in that I have the Pro Gold not the 2 HD and of your list only ever heard the EX1000 in comparison. But the Gold and 2 HD really are minimally different, have the same brass enclosures with similar if the not the same shape of driver exit at the front.

Overall I do wonder whether you’re looking for something that just doesn’t exist in an IEM. And that is the soundstage and imaging. Full headphones are able to do a much better job (my HD800’s for instance). And it’s simple physics that prevents it from happening in an IEM as they’re inserted into the ear canal.

In terms of separation, timbre, neutrality, mid range and treble quality. I’ve found the Golds to be the best i’ve heard and for me, with a better soundstage than for example the IE800 that a lot of people hail as the best one of the best in this area. Only the Shure KSE1500 offers improvements in much of these areas, but has some disadvantages too.

Looking at review of the Acoustune on Headfonics, where the Flares Pro was compared. I’d say the Gold and 2 HD are a decent step up to the Pro and it would have outdistanced the Acoustune on a number of counts, including the soundstage, imaging, etc.

 

[Bitsir]

My comments FWIW.

Firstly, a slight caveat in that I have the Pro Gold not the 2 HD and of your list only ever heard the EX1000 in comparison. But the Gold and 2 HD really are minimally different, have the same brass enclosures with similar if the not the same shape of driver exit at the front.

Overall I do wonder whether you’re looking for something that just doesn’t exist in an IEM. And that is the soundstage and imaging. Full headphones are able to do a much better job (my HD800’s for instance). And it’s simple physics that prevents it from happening in an IEM as they’re inserted into the ear canal.

In terms of separation, timbre, neutrality, mid range and treble quality. I’ve found the Golds to be the best i’ve heard and for me, with a better soundstage than for example the IE800 that a lot of people hail as the best one of the best in this area. Only the Shure KSE1500 offers improvements in much of these areas, but has some disadvantages too.

Looking at review of the Acoustune on Headfonics, where the Flares Pro was compared. I’d say the Gold and 2 HD are a decent step up to the Pro and it would have outdistanced the Acoustune on a number of counts, including the soundstage, imaging, etc.

The 1more Quad Driver ($200) has a soundstage that, coupled with my lowly Oneplus 5 smartphone, is wide enough for me to not sense the walls or the end of the stage, so it definitely exists if you ask me .

What I am after is a sound that is physical, tangible and has a reach-out-and-touch quality with great phantom mid stability. You know, a sound that feels dense, has weight and is anchored to you. At the same time, I do not like a sound that feels too tight & focused because it almost always makes the stage narrower which reminds me that I am listening to a pair of earphones/headphones and thus I cannot fully immerse myself.

I want a helmet of up-close-on-stage-sound that reverberates outwards, away from me as a listener if that makes sense. I want the notes to echo out and reverberate the room. That is the best I can describe it when I say spacious and cavernous. The Acoustune HS1551 (single 10mm DD driver) as I mentioned before does this but the downside to that IEM is limited microdynamics and transparency. I figured that a smaller 5.5mm BERYLLIUM driver would be much faster and really dig out the detail that I am missing but still retaining the strengths of being a single DD driver and the benefits that comes with that such as being entirely cohesive, natural and big-sounding.

 

[Bitsir]

I made a picture in paint to help me illustrate the kinda of stage I am after.

https://i.imgur.com/qhTnnud.png

Obviously I want as much depth as possible but I still want the sound to happen upfront.

 

[sebna]

There is very good separation but the sound stage is small and precise. I do not think it is what you are after. HD2 Pro are very truthful to the recording and so is the sound stage reproduction. Nothing more nothing less.

 

[Jonathan Dunham]

There is very good separation but the sound stage is small and precise. I do not think it is what you are after. HD2 Pro are very truthful to the recording and so is the sound stage reproduction. Nothing more nothing less.

You seem to contradict yourself. Is the soundstage always small and precise or is it truthful to the recording?! If the recording has a large soundstage will the HD2 Pro, in your opinion reproduce it. Or will it always be small and precise?! If it does reproduce the naturally recorded but larger soundstage then surely that is what Bitsir is after?

I do understand that some people are after something which is not necessarily accurate. And that’s fine. For me though, I want a system to be able to replicate a natural performance, where if it’s a jazz ensemble the instruments sound real and the recorded space is reproduced accurately. In a live performance you generally don’t get a lot of sound behind where one is seated (sound of the audience?). And maybe some ambience that indicates the size of the place, but the main event is happening in front of you.

 

[eljbee]

No worries. And good luck trying to find a solution. If you have a friendly audio club locally someone there might solder you a cable up, it wouldn't be hard. If I didn't have a large backlog of jobs to do myself, I'd do it for you!

The reason you're finding all sorts of weird cables commercially is that the short ones are for the original intended use of MMCX which is for RF purposes not audio. Don't forget its good to keep cable lengths short anyway, which is one reason Flare have done what they have with the Pro's.

Thanks again for the info, all makes sense. I ended up ordering 2 of these off the Bay, so I guess we'll see (and I'll report back) if they do what I need!

 

[HerrXRDS]

Does anyone else have the Flares Jet 3? How do you find the fit and sound? I've been playing with mine for a few days and can't get them in the right position no matter what I do or what tips I use. The slightest movement changes the sound drastically, more than I've seen in any other IEM, insertion depth, angle, everything matters. Combined with bad driver flex that cuts the sound, I wasn't able to hear a good sound from them, Best I've heard was still way to artificial and much glare in the vocals. Bass is the only thing I liked.

 

[Jonathan Dunham]

I made a picture in paint to help me illustrate the kinda of stage I am after.

https://i.imgur.com/qhTnnud.png

Obviously I want as much depth as possible but I still want the sound to happen upfront.

It sounds like you've already found IEM's that give you this effect, which is good, but they have other limitations. In which case just try the Pro 2HD if you think it might work and let us know!

If you're hearing this soundstage with an IEM it is clearly a psycho acoustic effect as its impossible for an IEM to project sound behind your head in the way your pictures show. Over the head headphones will get you closer (though have you tried a planar or electrostatic IEM where the driver is sitting well outside the ear?) and obviously speaker systems will do this where either the reflected sound creates the effect or by using a cinema type system with rear speakers together with some kind of DSP.

You mention the 1more Quad driver IEM, which uses multiple BA drivers. Well if that is giving the soundstage you want, then I reckon it is the effect caused by the messing up of phase and poor time alignment due to the multiple drivers. I'm sure some here might jump in to defend some of the enormously complicated IEM's that use multiple drivers, but I personally have never heard one that sounds properly cohesive and natural and with the level of detail that a decent DD or other type of single driver can provide.

 

[Jackpot77]

It sounds like you've already found IEM's that give you this effect, which is good, but they have other limitations. In which case just try the Pro 2HD if you think it might work and let us know!

If you're hearing this soundstage with an IEM it is clearly a psycho acoustic effect as its impossible for an IEM to project sound behind your head in the way your pictures show. Over the head headphones will get you closer (though have you tried a planar or electrostatic IEM where the driver is sitting well outside the ear?) and obviously speaker systems will do this where either the reflected sound creates the effect or by using a cinema type system with rear speakers together with some kind of DSP.

You mention the 1more Quad driver IEM, which uses multiple BA drivers. Well if that is giving the soundstage you want, then I reckon it is the effect caused by the messing up of phase and poor time alignment due to the multiple drivers. I'm sure some here might jump in to defend some of the enormously complicated IEM's that use multiple drivers, but I personally have never heard one that sounds properly cohesive and natural and with the level of detail that a decent DD or other type of single driver can provide.

The best "phase coherent" multi BA setups I've heard are the JH Audio line of IEMs - their Freqphase tubing does a pretty good job of correcting the phase/timing shifts that come along with complex multi crossover type designs.

Their house sound feels a little more "3D" to me, with a more immersive and coherent sense of stage and stage layout. Again, size is dependant on the recording, but worth checking out if you want to see what a well designed all-BA IEM can do.

 

[Bitsir]

It sounds like you've already found IEM's that give you this effect, which is good, but they have other limitations. In which case just try the Pro 2HD if you think it might work and let us know!

If you're hearing this soundstage with an IEM it is clearly a psycho acoustic effect as its impossible for an IEM to project sound behind your head in the way your pictures show. Over the head headphones will get you closer (though have you tried a planar or electrostatic IEM where the driver is sitting well outside the ear?) and obviously speaker systems will do this where either the reflected sound creates the effect or by using a cinema type system with rear speakers together with some kind of DSP.

You mention the 1more Quad driver IEM, which uses multiple BA drivers. Well if that is giving the soundstage you want, then I reckon it is the effect caused by the messing up of phase and poor time alignment due to the multiple drivers. I'm sure some here might jump in to defend some of the enormously complicated IEM's that use multiple drivers, but I personally have never heard one that sounds properly cohesive and natural and with the level of detail that a decent DD or other type of single driver can provide.

You know what, I have a suspicion that you're correct about the 1more Quad bring a little screwed up because I think I remember hearing those criticisms towards it before... Whatever it is to, it's pleasurable.

I should've made it clear that the stages in the paint picture are still inside the head of course.

And you're right, I have found the sort of stage I enjoy with the Quads, with instruments up close and echoing outwards, but I'm hungry for an upgrade maybe I'll try the Flares Pro 2 HD and give them to my SO if I don't like em. I have the Oriolus Reborn to fall back on, but that's a hybrid which gives a certain sound of course. I'm a huge fan of DD bass and DD cohesiveness.

 

[marcusd]

We just finished a review of the Flares Pro 2 from Nathan

https://headfonics.com/2019/07/flare-audio-flares-pro-2-review/

 

[Ziggomatic]

Good review. But now I have to pull the DAC back out of the box and give it another try. When I first tried it I thought it wasn't able to drive the Pro 2 properly, but the review says it drives it really well.

Edit: I paired it with my Lotoo PAW 5000 Mkii, and it was as I recall. If I turn it all the way up, I get adequate volume, and it sounds good, but no headroom to get into my "fun zone" (i.e., really effing loud). Oh well, still one of the best sets I've ever heard.

 

[Jonathan Dunham]

We just finished a review of the Flares Pro 2 from Nathan

https://headfonics.com/2019/07/flare-audio-flares-pro-2-review/

Nathan comments on the Gold a few times in the review and him preferring it to the Pro / Pro 2. So why no review for the Gold on Headfonics? Surely the Gold is closest to the Pro 2HD so people here would be interested in those comparisons.

I still don't get the high praise for the BT module though, for me its a fair bit behind a decent source / amp. The IEM's sounds less neutral using BT too.

 

[marcusd]

Nathan comments on the Gold a few times in the review and him preferring it to the Pro / Pro 2. So why no review for the Gold on Headfonics? Surely the Gold is closest to the Pro 2HD so people here would be interested in those comparisons.

I still don't get the high praise for the BT module though, for me its a fair bit behind a decent source / amp. The IEM's sounds less neutral using BT too.

Probably because he reviewed the gold on headfonia before he moved to Headfonics.

Pro 2 HD review coming soon.

 

[Jonathan Dunham]

Good review. But now I have to pull the DAC back out of the box and give it another try. When I first tried it I thought it wasn't able to drive the Pro 2 properly, but the review says it drives it really well.

Edit: I paired it with my Lotoo PAW 5000 Mkii, and it was as I recall. If I turn it all the way up, I get adequate volume, and it sounds good, but no headroom to get into my "fun zone" (i.e., really effing loud). Oh well, still one of the best sets I've ever heard.

Actually, you make a good point about the BT module. I’ve only used mine paired with iPhone and a couple of PC/tablet’s. And on both I have volume on the device turned up to 100%.

The fact is unless Flare have done something strange, you should always use full volume otherwise you’re compromising digital resolution. But in all cases there’s a lack of headroom available, simply not enough power on some of my quieter (older mastered) music for satisfying levels. A quick change to a Mojo/Poly for example, and everything sounds better and with all the headroom needed!