[Swampwalker]

IMO, with a high quality source and some good NOS tubes, the microZotl is right up there with the best. Outshone my older HR Max driving 600s and 650s.

 

[cosmopragma]

Your addressed first time aplifier buyers should be aware of electrostats.Driven by curiousity I've recently purchased a NOS Lambda Nova and a Stax SRM-Xh amp for 320 bucks.To my ears,this combo can easily compete with my Prehead/HD 600 rig.Different flavour, indeed. The successor of this amp, the SRM-212, fits well into your budget class(about 220 USD new), and since it is powered by a 12V PS maybe it can even be powered by a car battery.(I didn't test this yet).

 

[grinch]

this is one of the better threads on head-fi that i've read in months. i may not agree with every category, however i think that head-fi has needed this sort of thread for years and i'm glad somebody finally took the initiative.

stax omega 2 / 717 / gilmore amps might be added to the big money list, while the 313 amp and 404's could be added to the middle-grade list.

another thing i might recommend is the $50 and under category, containing koss headphones? ksc-35 and portapro (and portapro 2?) would be good candidates for this.

anyway, awesome thread. i hope it gets made a sticky soon and that you continue to update it with newer products.

 

[rawhit]

Great thread.

Just wanted to mention that an MPX3 with upgrades can easily make the $$$$-Fi category both in terms of sound and price.

 

[gsferrari]

I have made the requested changes to the listing

Cheers!!

 

[OakIris]

Still trying to find out which amp is recommended for use with a computer sound card - I think it is a given that a good soundcard is needed. (I may be upgrading my card to an EMU1212m. Head-Fi always makes me spend more money than I planned to - yesterday, I really only wanted a new pair of headphones....

)

And do you need a DAC as well as a headphone amp?

Edit - gsferrari - Just discovered that one of the changes you made to your list of sources & amps was to add soundcards as a source. Thanks for that! I'll check into the ones you recommended. Still need to know if a DAC is also necessary though.

 

[fewtch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by OakIris Still trying to find out which amp is recommended for use with a computer sound card - I think it is a given that a good soundcard is needed. (I may be upgrading my card to an EMU1212m. Head-Fi always makes me spend more money than I planned to - yesterday, I really only wanted a new pair of headphones.... )

AFAIK, all the 'good' soundcards have line-level outputs (so they'll match well with any amp), otherwise it would be the same sort of thing as any source/amp matching -- e.g. if the card is on the bright side, a darker sounding amp would be a good fit, etc.
Quote:

Originally Posted by OakIris And do you need a DAC as well as a headphone amp?

Sound cards have DACs built in so no, it isn't necessary. Many people do consider an external DAC to be desirable in terms of SQ.

 

[gsferrari]

You dont need an external DAC with a good sound card but if you are looking to squeeze that last bit of sound from your computer then why not eliminate the sound card altogether ??

Go to www.xitel.com

Check out their DACs (I have the Xitel PRO - USB)

Get this and a headphone amp of your choice. If it takes optical inputs then GREAT!! because the Xitel Pro also has an optical output (what this does is bypass the internal DAC in the xitel and sends pure digital signals to your amp which has a built in DAC - you can also use these signals to send to a external DAC of far higher quality - like the Ack! Dack). The Xitel is a soundcard, DAC or a simple pass through to your more expensive DAC.

You will however need an amp with the Xitel...a CMOY is what I use most of the time on the move and I use the Grace Design 901 when I am at home (the Grace uses the optical output of the Xitel because it has its own speciality DAC and the CMOY uses a Y-Cable to connect its miniplug input socket to the RCA outputs of the Xitel).

I then use a top end headphone of my choice for some stunning redbook/mp3/DVD performance

I hope I havent confused you too much...I will be glad to clarify if you have any doubts.

Cheers!!

 

[OakIris]

gsferrari - I'm still having some trouble with this 'use a DAC and bypass your computer sound card all together' concept; please bear with me!

So, I would (presumably?) remove the sound card from my computer system. The Xitel would then be connected to my computer via a USB port. But what is the connection between the CD drive on the computer and the USB port and then out to the DAC? I already use digital audio playback with my CD drives, which means they aren't physically connected to the sound card with an audio cable; if the sound card is gone, does Windows just automatically send the sound signal to the DAC? From what I read on the Xitel site, you are then supposed to connect the DAC to your home stereo system. I take it that instead, I would connect it to a headphone amp and then plug my headphones into the amp.

I must say, that if a $99 DAC can equal or exceed the performance of a $200 sound card, I'm all for it!

 

[Wmcmanus]

Guru, I like this thread a lot - especially the fact that you've kept the categories general (i.e., $$ setup, $$$ setup, and $$$$ setup). This was a wise choice in my opinion. This eliminates 1) the debate of how to allocate the overall budget, 2) the need to list out new and used prices for the gear included in each category, and 3) all of the relative value arguments that come with system matching and the like. By doing it this way, amps such as the Berning microZOTL or Sugden Headmaster can be included in either the $$$ or $$$$ setup categories. New retail for these amps are $750 and $850, IIRC. Yet, they can often be found in the used market for considerably less, and this is not the thread to get into what is considered a "good" used price. If you were to get a used amp of this quality plus a used pair of HD650's and a bargain ($$ category) source, you could still get the job done for under $1k. This is just one example, but it's exactly the process that a newbie goes through in putting a system together.

My only addition would be the Shanling T100 and/or T200 for $$$$ sources because they have a pretty decent headphone out that is made even better by tube rolling. This can be used in lieu of a headphone amp for a person who listens mostly to a 2 channel system and only occasionally listens to headphones (i.e., the typical Audiogon member who has a pair of HD600's but never has made much use of them because he's not "into" headphones but wants to check out a new CD after the kids are in bed). I've done some quick A/B/C comparisons of 1) the headphone out on the Shanling T100 using a pair of WE396 tubes to 2) the tube out of this same player run through a microZOTL and 3) the solid state out of this same player run through a Sugden Headmaster. My conclusion was that all 3 options are in the same ballpark and it's just a matter of the sonic perferences of the listener. For the casual headphone listener, that would save a lot of dough that could be put to use elsewhere.

 

[gsferrari]

Quote:

Originally Posted by OakIris gsferrari - I'm still having some trouble with this 'use a DAC and bypass your computer sound card all together' concept; please bear with me! So, I would (presumably?) remove the sound card from my computer system. The Xitel would then be connected to my computer via a USB port. But what is the connection between the CD drive on the computer and the USB port and then out to the DAC? I already use digital audio playback with my CD drives, which means they aren't physically connected to the sound card with an audio cable; if the sound card is gone, does Windows just automatically send the sound signal to the DAC? From what I read on the Xitel site, you are then supposed to connect the DAC to your home stereo system. I take it that instead, I would connect it to a headphone amp and then plug my headphones into the amp. I must say, that if a $99 DAC can equal or exceed the performance of a $200 sound card, I'm all for it!

The connection is through the motherboard and is controlled by the device drivers and the operating system. When you plug in the Xitel DAC it is autodetected by windows but you may have to disable the sound card in the "device manager" before this DAC becomes active. You then connect your best amp to this DAC and then plug in your stereo, headphones to the amp...

I think there are several external USB DACS and high end sound cards that simply trash the creative crap

 

[erikzen]

Quote:

Originally Posted by OakIris And do you need a DAC as well as a headphone amp?

I'm not sure if gsferrari made it clear to you or not but the simple answer is that if you're using a good soundcard as a source you do not need to use a DAC. You can run an IC from the line out of your soundcard to an amp and then plug in your headphones into the amp.

If your soundcard has a digital output, you can add a DAC to your system if you so choose. This should help you squeeze out the last bit of sound quality. You'll need to have the proper interconnect depending on the output of your soundcard and the input of your DAC.

From the DAC you then run the signal into an amp or you can buy a DAC that has an amp built in.

 

[gsferrari]

Quote:

Originally Posted by erikzen I'm not sure if gsferrari made it clear to you or not but the simple answer is that if you're using a good soundcard as a source you do not need to use a DAC. You can run an IC from the line out of your soundcard to an amp and then plug in your headphones into the amp. If your soundcard has a digital output, you can add a DAC to your system if you so choose. This should help you squeeze out the last bit of sound quality. You'll need to have the proper interconnect depending on the output of your soundcard and the input of your DAC. From the DAC you then run the signal into an amp or you can buy a DAC that has an amp built in.

Bingo!

An example of a "brand name" DAC with AMP is the Headroom Bithead. I personally think this is a good place to start but feedback from people I know suggests that the output of some of the $200.00 sound cards bests the bithead. However the Bithead is portable and external...you can swap from system to system without any driver cd's etc.

I just think the component DAC and amp is better than a device with both in it because here you can choose your DAC and amplifier. I use the Xitel with the CMOY on the move and I use the Grace Design 901 at home...

More flexibility

 

[OakIris]

Thank you for the thorough explanation gsferrari - I get it now!

erikzen - I currently have my soundcard/headphone amp/headphones hooked up as you describe, just no DAC. I only intended to upgrade my amp for my computer set up, but now I'm thinking about a new soundcard and a new amp. And then gsferrari threw in the DAC option! Who knows what I'll end up with!

I'm still very tempted to get an EMU1212m sound card and a new headphone amp, but I am definitely going to look into a DAC and amp, no sound card, combination as an alternative.

 

[wei_zhu]

hi gsferrari, I need help.

I'm looking around for my first amp, I mainly want to use it portable with my Shure e3c or el cheapo sony mdr-ex71

. My source is the ipod or iriver imp 550. I listen to hiphop, r&b and a little of pop. I looked at your startpost, Xin supermicro or Xin superdual or headroom airhead or totalhead are good for portable use. Or woulf you recommend anything else?