[grokit]

Quote:

Originally Posted by drizek /img/forum/go_quote.gif Just put an order in. Can anyone compare it to the iBasso D1/D2/D4 using the HD580/HD600? I am wondering if it was smart of me not to buy one of the iBassos in the first place.

I am listening to my HD600s right now through the uDAC with an upgraded cable; I also have tried my HD600s with my iBasso D4. I think that both amps are are underpowered with the HD600s; having said that, I think that the D4 amplifier does go a bit louder than the uDAC with the 9v on, but not by much.

To me, the HD600s can sound fatigue-ingly bright when not used with the right amp, and I do not have this issue with the uDAC at all. And it gets plenty loud for most listening.

So the uDAC also has better synergy with the HD600s IMHO; the D4 has more of a "reference" DAC in it, while the HD600s sound more musical to my ears with the uDAC. If you don't need to go portable, there is no 9v battery to replace on the uDAC. But there is no way to get full amplification out of the D4 without one, even when it is connected to your computer.

The D4 will also work with your iPod for portable use with the 9v battery, while the uDAC will not go portable at all.

So although they may appear so as small DAC/amp combos, these are really not directly comparable products and your intended usage should ultimately guide you.

Get that rca-1/8" cable! You will hear a huge improvement, then use the uDAC as a DAC/amp until you can get a real amp, as the uDAC scales up nicely. But so does the D4, and without the battery.

Quote:

Originally Posted by drizek /img/forum/go_quote.gif I just wish it was possible to have them both plugged in at the same time. I let my headphones run when I am using my speakers because I figure it gives the drivers some exercise. When I use headphones I just turn off the speakers. With the uDAC I will have to plug the headphones in and out every time I want to use them. That is kind of annoying.

Try plugging your headphones into your Creative T20s' headphone out, for "exercise"

 

[donunus]

userlander,
Maybe the dt880s and the uDac also dont match very perfectly in the bass because the 880s are pretty punchy down there and the udac is said to be the same. Maybe it comes out to be too much? The hd580/600s however are rich in the lower mids but the midbass can use the added punch/control. I hope this uDac gives me just that.

 

[grokit]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeadphoneAddict /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm subscribed to about 3000 threads so I can miss things like that sometimes, but I've worn myself out over this and don't feel like going back to find his post right now. I would say it's the HD650 that are boomy, and I have said that many times before, that if they aren't amped by just the right amp they can be boomy and veiled and rolled off. So if another person heard boomy with HD650, can you say that was the uDAC or the HD650 which caused that? I would say it's the combination of the two and that the HD650 demands more from an amp than the uDAC can provide. In another thread I warned someone not to get the HD650 to pair with the uDAC, but strongly recommended the HD600 instead. I made that recommendation based on previous experience with the HD650 combined with other similar gear. I even stated what kind of amp it would take to make me like the HD650. So, I believe in "gear synergy" and that when you combine two or more pieces of gear then you may emphasize/multiply/reduce certain sonic traits, in a good or bad way. My "boomy" UE11 Pro sound great with the uDAC, as it controls the bass without boosting it, and fills in the mids. The UE11 Pro also sound great with my PS Audio DAC feeding my WA6. But I can't listen to them out of my iPhone headphone out, or many other portable amps. If I had only used the iPhone to review them, my impressions would have been very slanted. So, I don't like to make an "absolute" statement about what a particular piece of gear sounds like until I have tried it mixed with different sources, amps or phones and compared it to many similar items.

and what he said, lol

 

[drizek]

Quote:

Originally Posted by grokit /img/forum/go_quote.gif So although they may appear so as small DAC/amp combos, these are really not directly comparable products and your intended usage should ultimately guide you. Get that rca-1/8" cable! You will hear a huge improvement, then use the uDAC as a DAC/amp until you can get a real amp, as the uDAC scales up nicely. But so does the D4, and without the battery. Try plugging your headphones into your Creative T20s' headphone out, for "exercise"

I think you got a couple people confuzled. I dont have the T20s, and I don't need an RCA-1/8th inch cable. What I do need is a straight up RCA to RCA to connect my HiVi D1080MKII speakers. I know its a little off topic, but are these Monster cables good? New Monster XLN RCA Stereo Audio Cable - 1M (3ft)! - eBay (item 370321140823 end time Jan-22-10 15:31:03 PST)

I feel bad asking, because I know that I SHOULD build my own cables, but I'm lazy, and these look cool, and the price is reasonable. Anything wrong with them? I don't care too much about the SQ of my speakers, but I do get irritated by interference. Do these actually help to reduce/prevent that or is it just Monster marketing?

Anyway, back to the iBasso. I have been wanting to get an iBasso D2 since it first came out, but never thought the cost was justified. Before the D2 I was wanting the Total Bithead, but again I resisted. When I saw the glowing reviews of the uDAC, I got hit with the upgraditis bug again and went for it. I was just asking cause I am sort of feeling like I would have been better off getting a Total Bithead 3 years ago and gotten it over with. So I wanted a little reassurance that my waiting has paid off.

 

[sailboat]

This thread just keeps going.

Seems the discussion took a different turn somewhere. It is difficult to describe sound because perception is relative to each individual. While there may be some terms and common words to illustrate the intangible, it is always possible to interpret in a totally unique way. I could attempt to describe how music sounds through the chain of electronics below but words being what they are, I wouldn't be able to fully communicate what I feel. To be honest, I don't think I would want to, due to my limited experience. And even if I did, it would be using words that I have seen used by others.

In any case, I have been thoroughly impressed by the uDAC and that has kept me from visiting Head-Fi frequently. Not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing

I think it's useful that people are having disagreements and voicing their opinions. Without it, the rest of us would be totally lost. So, thank you.

 

[K_19]

Quote:

Originally Posted by userlander /img/forum/go_quote.gif But K_19 called it boomy. And not once, but twice -- once with HD650, and once with some other phone.

Yup, and I still think it is with the two particular headphones I mentioned. Do keep in mind though that it was in reference to both HD650 and RS1 with flats (with bowls it is totally different, but I'm just not a bowls guy at all), which are both known to be very warm and IMO really don't need any sort of extra midbass boost, however little... just like how K701 don't need any sort of extra upper mids boost. I do feel that uDAC has a slight boost in the midbass area and lower mids (though nothing extreme), and may not match up best with headphones that are already quite warm like the two I've mentioned. I personally think though that if I was new into the hobby and didn't have a better, brighter rig already (such as my Pico/WA6 combo) I would have been perfectly happy even with the extra warmness. The opinion would most likely change depending on what you've heard before and your personal standards.

I should also clear up my earlier statement regarding "aggressive/harsh" issue that my personal definition of it is mainly boosts in the upper mids area, with lower mids comparably thinner (like with K701 at times or with certain Grado models). I'm actually really sensitive to extreme peaks in that area and that's how it becomes aggressive for me. uDAC IMO doesn't boost this area too much (unlike Pico DAC, which IMO, does slightly), therefore to me personally it isn't aggressive/harsh... but others may have different definition of it, which is perfectly fine with me.

 

[userlander]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeadphoneAddict /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm subscribed to about 3000 threads so I can miss things like that sometimes, but I've worn myself out over this and don't feel like going back to find his post right now. I would say it's the HD650 that are boomy, and I have said that many times before, that if they aren't amped by just the right amp they can be boomy and veiled and rolled off. So if another person heard boomy with HD650, can you say that was the uDAC or the HD650 which caused that? I would say it's the combination of the two and that the HD650 demands more from an amp than the uDAC can provide. In another thread I warned someone not to get the HD650 to pair with the uDAC, but strongly recommended the HD600 instead. I made that recommendation based on previous experience with the HD650 combined with other similar gear. I even stated what kind of amp it would take to make me like the HD650. So, I believe in "gear synergy" and that when you combine two or more pieces of gear then you may emphasize/multiply/reduce certain sonic traits, in a good or bad way. My "boomy" UE11 Pro sound great with the uDAC, as it controls the bass without boosting it, and fills in the mids. The UE11 Pro also sound great with my PS Audio DAC feeding my WA6. But I can't listen to them out of my iPhone headphone out, or many other portable amps. If I had only used the iPhone to review them, my impressions would have been very slanted. So, I don't like to make an "absolute" statement about what a particular piece of gear sounds like until I have tried it mixed with different sources, amps or phones and compared it to many similar items.

Well, I just quoted and bolded it a few posts back. Again, it appears people aren't reading very carefully and are just having knee-jerk reactions to something that on the surface sounds "negative" to them.

So you don't think the uDAC is a good DAC for the HD650s, and you're "allowed" to say that, while I don't think the uDAC is especially good for classical, but I'm not allowed to say that. So why the double standard? What is that about?

I've said all along that I think this DAC pairs especially well with Grados. I even used your exact word, "synergize": "So far it seems to me to synergize better with grado-type phones...."

In that same statement I also said, "It might work well with the Senns, or it might be too much. It'll be interesting to hear how people like it with senns." That's "definitive?" That doesn't sound like anything definitive to me. That sounds more like "might," as in it's NOT definitive, i.e., it "might" or "might not." (Looks like I was right, btw, too, which you just verified by saying it sounds better with HD600s while it's too much for 650s). In this context, "better" isn't even definitive. It's a comparative, not a superlative. "Better" means just that: it seems to sound BETTER with Grados than with HD650s, for example. That's not a definitive statement about anything.

And even notice that I said "SEEMS," as in "it seems to synergize better." That means it's an IMPRESSION. That means to take it with a grain of salt. Everyone should know that, but apparently critical reading skills are in decline in the US. Somewhere else I noted certain observations about it when paired with one of my amps that I've noticed is a little bit warm. I also mentioned what DACs I was using as references. And all my gear is in my sig plain for anyone to see, and all the gear I have owned is in my profile for anyone to read. So every step of the way I've made it a point to specify that my impressions are relative and gear dependent.

So again, spare me the lectures. It's clear that you're just making up excuses to slam what I say for whatever reasons or motives you might have. I haven't said anything that I consider inaccurate, and in fact I haven't said anything too different *in kind* from anyone else, only occasionally in degree. Other people have said things much different in kind, like "boomy" and "distorted." What I've offered are my impressions based on the equipment I have and have made it clear to specify, and if you don't understand that it goes without saying that all impressions are to be taken with a grain of salt, then I don't know what to tell you. You seem to know that when it comes to what you say, but you don't seem to be interested in extending that same caveat to people who say things you don't want to hear. Well, not trying to sound harsh, but that's your problem. You'll just have to find another way to deal with it than attacking me so strenuously, because those are my impressions and I stand by them. Go attack someone else for saying it's "boomy" and "distorted."

 

[userlander]

Quote:

Originally Posted by donunus /img/forum/go_quote.gif Boomy is more negative than thick unless the particular headphone has a dip at the exact spot the boominess occurs. A Thick sounding DAC might even be nice for thin sounding cans

Exactly - which is why I said it sounds better with Grados! Read people, read!

But the question is why didn't you raise all these objections and ultra-microscopic definitional concerns and quibbling when the other guy said it sounded "boomy?" He's the one who said it sounded boomy, not me. The comment you just made you should have made 20 pages ago when he originally said it, not to me.

It's kind of weird, because no one else but that one person said it was "boomy," and no one says a word about that. So that's a *quality* the person says it has that no one else has said. But I say it's "very forward" along with 5 or 6 other people who just say "forward," and I'm crucified for saying "very." And that's not even a qualitative difference, but a quantitative one. No one is disputing that it's forward, they just don't like me saying it's forward to that extent -- which is a completely subjective measure in a way that saying something is "boomy" is not!

So yeah, that is kind of weird. Same for when the person said it's "grainy and distorted." No one jumped all over that person or said anything then, and that is a pretty negative thing to say -- way more negative than anything I said. Same thing when someone said it didn't sound good at all with some particular phones or IEMs. That's a pretty negative thing, too. But I'm not allowed to say it's strength is rock (where I think the exact words I used were "kick-ass") but not as good for classical. So I say it sounds "kick ass" and that's "negative," but someone else says it's "boomy" and "grainy and distorted" and apparently that's not "negative," that's fine. Kind of weird.

For some reason that I haven't been able to figure out, people seem to want me -- and me alone -- to say something like, "this is a fantastic DAC that sounds great with anything and everything. Use it for classical, use it for rock, use it with whatever headphones you want. It's the best DAC ever created and it works fine with anything you want." That seems to be what I'm required to say, although I'm not sure why I would be singled out for that while other people are allowed to say it doesn't sound good with certain headphones, or that it's "boomy" or "grainy," and no one says a word.

Well, I'm not interested in compromising myself that way. If the guy who wanted a DAC for classical was steered away from this DAC because of what I said, then I think I communicated my impressions well. For some reason that's seen as a "negative" thing, while Larry is allowed to steer people away who have HD650s. Why not lie about that, too, so that people who have HD650s will buy it?

So there's a weird double-standard going on that I don't exactly understand. If I had to venture a *guess,* I would suspect Larry must share some financial or similar concern with nuforce (free gear for testing, etc.), but that is just a speculation for lack of anything else to explain the weird double standard. To be honest, I'm not really even interested in understanding it. Getting flak like this on a $99 DAC simply for posting my honest impressions is not really my idea of "fun."

 

[Bill St. Clair]

I got the keychain that Jason promised for posting an Amazon review. Came with a fancy felt case. Here it is on top of my speaker with the µDAC.

 

[K_19]

lol, I really don't see the point in including a pouch for the keychain at all, but a nice gesture on their part.

 

[SjoerdB]

Hi,

I'm really interested in this dac.
My current setup is an AKG k601 which is amped by my (retro, 1980's) Yamaha R-500 stereo receiver. My music collection is on my Mac mini which is connected trough the headphone out (analog) right now.
Music in Itunes is in high-bitrate MP3 of Apple Lossless (ripping my CD-collection to lossless now).
I really want to get more out of my K601, which already sounds very good to me.
I will also be using the dac for my speakers (Tannoy Mercury M1).

This dac looks great, but will it be good enough for me. I'm also interested in the Matrix Mini-I, but will its 2-3 times higher price be worth it, since i'll only be connecting my mac Mini to it?

Thanks!

 

[sune]

Hi Guys,

If the uDac does not sound warm, this thread certainly does

I prefer a slightly(!) warm, organic, full bodied presentation and dislike anything cold, anaemic, sibilant, over analytical and trebly. On the other hand I don't care much for something with to much up bass emphasis either.

The feedback here certainly warrants a "re-buy"! At the end of the day, it will be down to synergy and personal preference. The HD-380's do sound slightly "distant", so some up frontness could be a good thing.

Thank you all,

Sune

 

[Armaegis]

I wonder if we can just buy the keychains... or maybe they could package it with their items.

 

[Lil' Knight]

Quote:

Originally Posted by K_19 /img/forum/go_quote.gif lol, I really don't see the point in including a pouch for the keychain at all, but a nice gesture on their part.

x2

Must be a golden keychain.

 

[drizek]

I got it today. Just started listening to it, but basically so far all I can say is that it sounds good, looks good. It gets loud enough with my HD 580, but I have to turn the volume knob further than I had to on my iBasso T1.