[JaZZ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrea Ouch, this is not for me. Saves me money.

Actually I didn't want my premature findings to cause premature conclusions... But your intention is good!

Anyway, here's how I perceive the sonic balance with both headphones:

 

[Andrea]

That was too drastic, I admit.

Your drawing looks enlightening.

 

[chamix]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaZZ Anyway, here's how I perceive the sonic balance with both headphones:

Very nice illustration JaZZ, I agree in principle.

 

[JaZZ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaZZ It may be the midrange recession that makes me e.g. prefer organ music from the HD 650. It even seems to have higher resolution there, and definitely higher refinement and smoothness. Especially the perceived step in the transition between midrange and treble leads to a lack of ultimate smoothness and refinement with the K 701...

I listened to the same recording again, this time with the UDP-1 instead of the E-MU 1212M for feeding Jan Meier's DAC prototype. Now I had no complaints about the K 701's (lack of) refinement; it sounded as good as the HD 650. This shows how sensitive the K 701 reacts to the source -- and that a soundcard (via Toslink in my case) or computer (via USB, which I tried as well) isn't necessarily an adequate source even when paired with a high-class DAC.

After listening to various recordings again, I can't but say that the K 701 (with almost 100 hours of heavy break-in) is a great headphone and definitely a keeper for me. It won't replace the HD 650 by no means, but will be a fascinating and equal alternative.
.

 

[Clutz]

This thread is making me think that perhaps I should have ordered the 650s instead of the 701s.. Oh well.. I'll be able to compare the 701s with my 580s.. and if I prefer the 580s over the 701s, then I'll try to exchange them for 880s.. and if I still don't care for the 880s.. then I'll get the 650s..

I just got my 580s.. and I'm enjoying them.. and yet I'm super excited about getting the 701s.. and I'm going crazy trying to find out when Todd is even going to get them..

 

[Andrea]

JaZZ, what about the colorfulness & richness of tonality? Which, between the K701 and the HD650, has more of that (both with vocals and with instruments) ?

 

[JaZZ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrea JaZZ, what about the colorfulness & richness of tonality? Which, between the K701 and the HD650, has more of that (both with vocals and with instruments) ?

I would rate them as about equal in this respect. The HD 650 is warmer and fuller, the K 701 is livelier and more detailed, also more revealing when it comes to instrument colors, so it may in fact have a richer color spectrum, and it's just the cooler signature which prevents it from being more colorful and rich, IMO. But things may still change after some more break-in. I have yet to further explore the capabilities with vocals, but as already hinted I suspect that despite the less warm midrange the K 701 might have the edge because of the greater definition, which makes vocals more expressive and touching.
.

 

[sean-xenos]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaZZ I have yet to further explore the capabilities with vocals, but as already hinted I suspect that despite the less warm midrange the K 701 might have the edge because of the greater definition, which makes vocals more expressive and touching. .

Yep,
I had the same impression on the K701s vs. HD650s.
In the long run I prefered the K701s because of their greater definition and resolution.
The midrange of the HD650s is warmer, but also coloured. With my M³ the K701s didn't sound that cold in the midrange, just a slight tendency.
Maybe other amps based on MOSFETS or tube amps sound similar with K701s.

 

[Gradino]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sean-xenos Yep, I had the same impression on the K701s vs. HD650s. In the long run I prefered the K701s because of their greater definition and resolution. The midrange of the HD650s is warmer, but also coloured. With my M³ the K701s didn't sound that cold in the midrange, just a slight tendency. Maybe other amps based on MOSFETS or tube amps sound similar with K701s.

Ok, this is good, i agree, very well.

S.

 

[Andrea]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaZZ I would rate them as about equal in this respect. The HD 650 is warmer and fuller, the K 701 is livelier and more detailed, also more revealing when it comes to instrument colors, so it may in fact have a richer color spectrum, and it's just the cooler signature which prevents it from being more colorful and rich, IMO. But things may still change after some more break-in. I have yet to further explore the capabilities with vocals, but as already hinted I suspect that despite the less warm midrange the K 701 might have the edge because of the greater definition, which makes vocals more expressive and touching. .

My feeling is that the HD650 has a very wide variety of colours, just more subtle/subdued, not very immediate (not Grado-like, perhaps), but very effective when I'm in an equally "subtle" (i.e. less sensual and more... spiritual) frame of mind.

Do you have a similar feeling perhaps, and, may that explain your views as compared to the K701 ?

 

[Andrea]

New question...

JaZZ, does the K701 have significantly more midrange definition than the HD595? Thank you.

 

[JaZZ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrea My feeling is that the HD650 has a very wide variety of colours, just more subtle/subdued, not very immediate (not Grado-like, perhaps), but very effective when I'm in an equally "subtle" (i.e. less sensual and more... spiritual) frame of mind. Do you have a similar feeling perhaps, and, may that explain your views as compared to the K701 ?

I agree, the HD 650 has a wide variety of sonic colors, and I've never missed anything in this regard. It's just that the K 701 emphasizes overtones more, which finally are responsible for the sonic colors, so it has an even wider range with higher resolution when it comes to sonic colors. Especially since the treble is of high accuracy, not resonant or reverberative like with other treble-friendly headphones. (It's even becoming questionable if the K 701 has to be counted to the latter category, after 115 hours.)


Quote:

does the K701 have significantly more midrange definition than the HD595?

No. The HD 595 has an outstanding midrange definition and texturing up to the point of graininess and hardness IMO. As mentioned, the K 701 has a similar midrange characteristic, just with much finer grain -- it's smoother and more refined, so will appear as less textured and defined, although it's more natural IMO. So imagine a HD 595 with finer grain and added low bass and upper treble, and you have the K 701!

.

 

[rsaavedra]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaZZ So imagine a HD 595 with finer grain and added low bass and upper treble, and you have the K 701!

Interesting, so Jazz, in your opinion the K701 is closer to the 595 than to either HD650 or DT880? Also, are you placing both 595 and 701 similarly somewhere in between 650 and 880 in terms of "presentation forwardness"?

 

[green84061]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaZZ No. The HD 595 has an outstanding midrange definition and texturing up to the point of graininess and hardness IMO. As mentioned, the K 701 has a similar midrange characteristic, just with much finer grain -- it's smoother and more refined, so will appear as less textured and defined, although it's more natural IMO. So imagine a HD 595 with finer grain and added low bass and upper treble, and you have the K 701! .

Thats basicly what I was hoping for, well I would like a little more midrange definition than you said but I need to realize that I am getting to the point of diminishing returns on my money. Oh JaZZ if you dont mind do you think the aria prototype drives the K701 to its full (well not really full but within 95% of so) potential?

 

[Andrea]

Interesting.

Btw, the 50 ohm 595 should be both slightly cleaner and, if I recall correctly, slightly smoother. Me, I'm not having any much to complain about midrange smoothness, with my HD595 driven by my small but plucky Zero amp (but the 'big one' is bound to arrive in few days now), particularly after playing a while with op-amps... Also, perhaps the slightly dryish sound (if I read correctly) of the Aria (as part of the LM6171 sound signature I guess) isn't helping your 595?


Lastly, I'm not that sure that I think my HD595 has better midrange definition than my HD650 has...

I'll need to check that, too, with my incoming amp.