[peter1480]

Weird - I've never broken either a 3.5mm or 2.5mm jack. You'd have to abuse them quite a bit to break one, or have a very flimsy build .....

same here never broken a 2.5mm, if a 4.4 was used the range of cables is limited. A friend with a Sony pickes cabels up in Japan each time he goes there so difficult are they to get in the UK but they do look robust, guess the amp module would also need a bump to coupe with the extra diameter.

 

[Paulo Abreu]

Weird - I've never broken either a 3.5mm or 2.5mm jack. You'd have to abuse them quite a bit to break one, or have a very flimsy build .....

Abuse and accident, sometimes simple bumps, drops, people sleeping while listening. A simple search with "bent jack” on head-fi.org will result a few cases.
I think most due to flimsy builds. I once straightened a 3.5mm jack from a teammate smartphone, it bend in his jeans front pocket while sitting, but it was ok, the cable didn't break. Never happened to me, even cables last a lifetime on my hands...

 

[salla45]

Hi All,

I am getting close to pulling the trigger on a Fiio X7 mark 2, I have a few questions:

1) X7 mk 1 is available for some 30% less here than the mk 2 - worth considering the mark 1 or don't even think about it?

2) How is the mk 2 with stock amp at driving the Beyerdynamic T1's - I'm not a volume freak, but would it really struggle dynamically?

3) I have a pair of LZ A4's which would be my "go to" IEM's for the Fiio; is it a no brainer decision to order a set of balance cables for them?

Thanks in advance for all replies!

 

[TheoS53]

Hi All,

I am getting close to pulling the trigger on a Fiio X7 mark 2, I have a few questions:

1) X7 mk 1 is available for some 30% less here than the mk 2 - worth considering the mark 1 or don't even think about it?

2) How is the mk 2 with stock amp at driving the Beyerdynamic T1's - I'm not a volume freak, but would it really struggle dynamically?

3) I have a pair of LZ A4's which would be my "go to" IEM's for the Fiio; is it a no brainer decision to order a set of balance cables for them?

Thanks in advance for all replies!

Personally I can only answer your first question, and the answer is absolutely yes. The Mk1 (with AM1 amp) sounded damn near identical to the X5III to me. Too smooth. The MK2 with AM3A sounded almost as good as my iDSD BL. It really is, sound wise, a fantastic device. With the MK2 you've also got the benefit of dual card slots

 

[Brooko]

Hi All,

I am getting close to pulling the trigger on a Fiio X7 mark 2, I have a few questions:

1) X7 mk 1 is available for some 30% less here than the mk 2 - worth considering the mark 1 or don't even think about it?

2) How is the mk 2 with stock amp at driving the Beyerdynamic T1's - I'm not a volume freak, but would it really struggle dynamically?

3) I have a pair of LZ A4's which would be my "go to" IEM's for the Fiio; is it a no brainer decision to order a set of balance cables for them?

Thanks in advance for all replies!

X7i is still a great DAP, but the easiest way to decide is simply to compare. With the X7ii you get 64 Gb on-board internal storage (instead of 32 Gb). You also get 2 micro sdxc slots (instead of 1), a volume pot (instead of rocker buttons) and 2 Gb of RAM (instead of 1 Gb). The X7ii has smoother operation overall than X7i because of this. Lastly - the X71 comes default with the AM1 amp - which while OK for IEMs, is not overly powerful. The X7ii comes with the AM3A amp module as default - which gives you the balanced output. The savings would give you the opportunity to grab a more powerful amp module - but they wouldn't cover the other shortfalls. If it was me - the X7ii is worth the additional outlay.

You'd have to use balanced into the T1 - the X7ii would not supply enough power to them otherwise - which would mean cable change. Its probably cheaper to simply go with something like the A5 amp if you wanted to use the T1s.

And I wouldn't bother with the balanced cable for the LZ-A4. It'll get you know sonic gains, and single ended is more than enough to drive the IEMs.

 

[salla45]

Personally I can only answer your first question, and the answer is absolutely yes. The Mk1 (with AM1 amp) sounded damn near identical to the X5III to me. Too smooth. The MK2 with AM3A sounded almost as good as my iDSD BL. It really is, sound wise, a fantastic device. With the MK2 you've also got the benefit of dual card slots

Thanks Theo, appreciate your logic here - that's me pushed towards the II now!

X7i is still a great DAP, but the easiest way to decide is simply to compare. With the X7ii you get 64 Gb on-board internal storage (instead of 32 Gb). You also get 2 micro sdxc slots (instead of 1), a volume pot (instead of rocker buttons) and 2 Gb of RAM (instead of 1 Gb). The X7ii has smoother operation overall than X7i because of this. Lastly - the X71 comes default with the AM1 amp - which while OK for IEMs, is not overly powerful. The X7ii comes with the AM3A amp module as default - which gives you the balanced output. The savings would give you the opportunity to grab a more powerful amp module - but they wouldn't cover the other shortfalls. If it was me - the X7ii is worth the additional outlay.

You'd have to use balanced into the T1 - the X7ii would not supply enough power to them otherwise - which would mean cable change. Its probably cheaper to simply go with something like the A5 amp if you wanted to use the T1s.

And I wouldn't bother with the balanced cable for the LZ-A4. It'll get you know sonic gains, and single ended is more than enough to drive the IEMs.

Thanks Brooko. A lot of good reasons again to go for the II

Ref balanced output...I was watching some good reviews on utube (one in particular stands out) mentioning a really big difference going for the balanced output, not so great a difference you think, in sound quality? I'm a newbie with such things, but you are implying that the balanced output gives more power rather than sonic benefits ("It'll get you know -sic- sonic gains") ? The T1 issue is not great, I can output to mojo anyhow which drives them really well.

 

[Giraku]

Ref balanced output...I was watching some good reviews on utube (one in particular stands out) mentioning a really big difference going for the balanced output, not so great a difference you think, in sound quality? I'm a newbie with such things, but you are implying that the balanced output gives more power rather than sonic benefits ("It'll get you know -sic- sonic gains") ? The T1 issue is not great, I can output to mojo anyhow which drives them really well.

To me, the benefit of balanced output is more on the power than the sonic difference. Sonically, balanced output has less cross-talking. But unbalanced output with a good cable can minimize the difference.
If you plan to use Mojo, then why do you want to buy X7mk2? Just as a transport? If so, just stick with your smart phone that usually works fine as a transport.
I do not have T1 (I have T1p), but I have HE1kv2 and HD800S that can be driven very nicely with X7mk2/AM5 combo. I highly recommend this combo.

 

[Brooko]

I've used this a lot when asked - so forgive me if I copy and paste again:

The specs will actually tell you more than your hearing will. Take the X7ii and its new balanced module.

It'll put 17mW into a 300 ohm load SE but 63 mW into the same load balanced. The voltage is also up. So if you're driving a load which requires a lot of voltage and is reasonably high impedance (eg like an HD650) there will be benefits. Not in the architecture, but in the power.

Look at the same load into an IEM though - say around 16 ohm. SE is 200 mW and balanced is 380 mW. Balanced must be better right? Not really. Balanced will chew the battery quicker, and both outputs would drive practically any IEM into the regions of deafening you. And its the same for the 32ohm load. Both are essentially over-kill.

Now lets look at the real differences - those bits that people make claims on. Remember how balanced is always cleaner, darker, more spacious, wider sound-stage ....... Lets look at cleaner first. SNR on SE is 116 dB and on balanced is 119 dB. Both are beyond what we can hear - so no difference. Both have THD measurements at 0.003% = beyond our hearing. You'll get a magnitude more distortion from your earphones. Now the important one - crosstalk (channel separation). SE is 73 dB and balanced is 97 dB. That must make a big difference - right?

I'm going to quote something bookmarked a long time ago:

The FCC minimum channel separation/crosstalk spec for FM Stereo used to be 29.7dB...yes, that's right, 29.7. It had to do with how the signal was generated and handled, but 30 - 40dB wasn't hard to achieve, and 50dB wasn't uncommon.

The bulk of what is perceived as stereo separation happens above 20dB with decreasing detectable improvements above 30dB or so. It's almost impossible to detect separation improvements above 40dB. Localization of a phantom image depends less on channel separation and much more on relative intensity and inter-aural time delay of the sound, and human hearing response at different angles.
So....long answer...separation above 40dB doesn't improve sound quality, below 40dB it slowly degrades, the final separation is equal to the device with the least separation in the system. Once degraded by a device, no device following it can restore separation.

As you can see, SE crosstalk at 73 dB and balanced at 97 dB actually means nothing - we can't hear it.

What essentially happens is two things.

1. People read the specs, and tell themselves balanced must sound better, and thats what they talk themselves into. In a blind volume matched test, they won't tell a difference.
2. Most people don't volume match, and we are terrible at volume matching by ear (which is what a lot of people do). Most balanced circuits output a lot more power by design - therefore they are louder. People saying they hear a difference are often simply listening to one louder than the other. And we know louder is perceived as sounding better.

There are two other possibilities for differences:

• The balanced circuit actually sounds better by design (unlikely given FiiO's expertise)
• Impedance mismatch can affect frequency response for multi-BA driver set-ups (rarely happens with dynamics). You'll note the 12 ohm (SE) vs 1.7 ohm (bal) output.

Hope some of this makes sense. Most of the balanced discussion on Head-Fi is (IMO) snake-oil. Especially when you're talking IEMs and portable DAPs. It sells units though - so manufacturers have to supply what the consumers want.

 

[salla45]

I've used this a lot when asked - so forgive me if I copy and paste again:

The specs will actually tell you more than your hearing will. Take the X7ii and its new balanced module.

It'll put 17mW into a 300 ohm load SE but 63 mW into the same load balanced. The voltage is also up. So if you're driving a load which requires a lot of voltage and is reasonably high impedance (eg like an HD650) there will be benefits. Not in the architecture, but in the power.

Look at the same load into an IEM though - say around 16 ohm. SE is 200 mW and balanced is 380 mW. Balanced must be better right? Not really. Balanced will chew the battery quicker, and both outputs would drive practically any IEM into the regions of deafening you. And its the same for the 32ohm load. Both are essentially over-kill.

Now lets look at the real differences - those bits that people make claims on. Remember how balanced is always cleaner, darker, more spacious, wider sound-stage ....... Lets look at cleaner first. SNR on SE is 116 dB and on balanced is 119 dB. Both are beyond what we can hear - so no difference. Both have THD measurements at 0.003% = beyond our hearing. You'll get a magnitude more distortion from your earphones. Now the important one - crosstalk (channel separation). SE is 73 dB and balanced is 97 dB. That must make a big difference - right?

I'm going to quote something bookmarked a long time ago:


As you can see, SE crosstalk at 73 dB and balanced at 97 dB actually means nothing - we can't hear it.

What essentially happens is two things.

1. People read the specs, and tell themselves balanced must sound better, and thats what they talk themselves into. In a blind volume matched test, they won't tell a difference.
2. Most people don't volume match, and we are terrible at volume matching by ear (which is what a lot of people do). Most balanced circuits output a lot more power by design - therefore they are louder. People saying they hear a difference are often simply listening to one louder than the other. And we know louder is perceived as sounding better.

There are two other possibilities for differences:

• The balanced circuit actually sounds better by design (unlikely given FiiO's expertise)
• Impedance mismatch can affect frequency response for multi-BA driver set-ups (rarely happens with dynamics). You'll note the 12 ohm (SE) vs 1.7 ohm (bal) output.

Hope some of this makes sense. Most of the balanced discussion on Head-Fi is (IMO) snake-oil. Especially when you're talking IEMs and portable DAPs. It sells units though - so manufacturers have to supply what the consumers want.

Interesting and thanks for the detailed reply! I think (if i do pull the trigger) Ill try it unbalanced and if ok, will stick with it! The cable to upgrade the lza4's is only about 12 quid, so its not a huge risk to try it

 

[salla45]

To me, the benefit of balanced output is more on the power than the sonic difference. Sonically, balanced output has less cross-talking. But unbalanced output with a good cable can minimize the difference.
If you plan to use Mojo, then why do you want to buy X7mk2? Just as a transport? If so, just stick with your smart phone that usually works fine as a transport.
I do not have T1 (I have T1p), but I have HE1kv2 and HD800S that can be driven very nicely with X7mk2/AM5 combo. I highly recommend this combo.

Hi Giraku, not really intending to use the X7ii + mojo as a regular combo, just on occasion with the T1's if I'm stuck, and for static use. The plan is to use the X7ii as a one box portable solution. My X3ii is still fine, but I'm listening to a lot more streaming via Tidal at the moment, as the mobile internet has really improved of late. Til now it's all been via my S6+ cellphone, which is a bit lacking sonically and i keep getting (necessary) notifications and such but they interfere with listening. I really want a dedicated player which can stream also and the 5iii and 7ii fit the bill. The 7ii grabs me from the reviews as I like an inciteful and exciting sound; for my ageing ears, lol, "smooth" is less of a requisite.

Incidentally; Mojo+cell phone is pretty hopeless on the go, because of interference noise. It's really an exercise in frustration. And also my mojo's battery is really bad, so I have to strap a charging brick to it also, you can imagine brick+cellphone+mojo ain't too pretty nor ergonomic to lug around on walks

Cheers!

 

[Giraku]

Hi Giraku, not really intending to use the X7ii + mojo as a regular combo, just on occasion with the T1's if I'm stuck, and for static use. The plan is to use the X7ii as a one box portable solution. My X3ii is still fine, but I'm listening to a lot more streaming via Tidal at the moment, as the mobile internet has really improved of late. Til now it's all been via my S6+ cellphone, which is a bit lacking sonically and i keep getting (necessary) notifications and such but they interfere with listening. I really want a dedicated player which can stream also and the 5iii and 7ii fit the bill. The 7ii grabs me from the reviews as I like an inciteful and exciting sound; for my ageing ears, lol, "smooth" is less of a requisite.

Incidentally; Mojo+cell phone is pretty hopeless on the go, because of interference noise. It's really an exercise in frustration. And also my mojo's battery is really bad, so I have to strap a charging brick to it also, you can imagine brick+cellphone+mojo ain't too pretty nor ergonomic to lug around on walks

Cheers!

I see. Now I understand.
X7mk2 will be a great update for you. Good luck!!

 

[salla45]

Are there any X7ii reviews on HeadFi? I can't get round the new layout for the life of me!

 

[Brooko]

Are there any X7ii reviews on HeadFi? I can't get round the new layout for the life of me!

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/fiio-x7-mark-ii-smart-hi-res-music-player.22522/reviews

Mine will still be a couple of weeks away yet

 

[salla45]

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/fiio-x7-mark-ii-smart-hi-res-music-player.22522/reviews

Mine will still be a couple of weeks away yet

thanks Brooko. You know? I went thru all the reviews in the gear section labouriously page by page in alphabetical order, no Fiio X 7 ii review option there at all! Grrrrr...

 

[Brooko]

Just go to the Head Gear section, then use the search box at the top (it'll search that forum section). Make it generic (I searched for FiiO X7) and you should get a hit. And yes - its not exactly user friendly.