[Joe Bloggs]

 
So there's a sale on some Beyerdynamic DT880 premium (600 ohm model) and i heard these are tough to drive. I know there is a 250 ohm and 32 ohm model too but the 600 ohm should have the edge in sonics.  Can anyone comment if the medium AM2 amp module will drive these to their full potential? If not will the high power amp module AM3/AM4 (forgot which model it's called) or the K5 dock will do better?  Anyone have these DT880 and paired with their X7 ? Thank guys.

I just went through the (lengthy) decision of which to go with: DT880 32 ohm vs 250 vs 600 ohm and settled on the 250 to strike a balance between drivability vs sonics.
The K5 will do better but the K5 won't even drive the 250s to their full potential let alone the 600s.
Do they sound good ? Yes, however the wide variations in program material volume make it challenging without a lot more gain. I just returned the K5 because it doesn't drive my 250s any better then a Duet 2.
During a conversation (yesterday) with Paul from Beyerdynamic US, I asked what power he thought be sufficient - he felt it would take near .5 watt to drive the 250s properly.
I'm inclined to believe that with my experience thrown in and my desired listening levels.
Without going into the whole hearing protection issue I believe you can get to satisfactory listening levels with the higher powered Fiio amps with some program material - driving to their full potential? Not so much.

Well that's disappointing to hear. I'm not a loud listener but I would like to hear the DT880 on their full capability sonic levels. If not the K5 or high power X7 amp module do you think an JDS Labs O2 would be enough juice? I think the K5 are rated 1.5W (32 ohms). Not sure how much mW I'll need for these DT880 at a modest listening volume. I usually listen on my X7 on high gain on my NAD HP50 (32 ohms) only around no more than 60 depending on material. Also heard tubes paired the best with DT880's but not sure if any truth.

 We are on very similar paths just now.

The 1.5 W at 32 ohms is just that - so you'd want to look at the rating closest to your headphone ohm rating - so at 300 ohm for the K5 is 150 mw or one tenth the output compared to 32 ohms - if I'm doing the math correctly. So even less for the 600 ohm.

I had the NAD HP 50s and they're A LOT louder than the DT880s out of any Fiio product. ( except for the 32 ohm version but the NADS are still more efficient)

I have zero experience with tube driven headphone amps and, like you, have been reading/hearing much about the benefits.
 I did ask Paul (from Beyerdynamic) to share his thoughts about tubes vs solid state.

His opinion was that: if listening to vinyl on some high end gear, then tube equipment would/ could surely enhance the experience.
For digital listening solid state is a great choice.

So of course, it's better if we could simply walk in a store and hear all these products for ourselves and gather our own thoughts but for now....

The JDS Labs 02 is not quite as powerful as the K5 or very close.
600 ohm rating is only 88 mw - 

 I'm  actually considering the Schiit Asgard which has a 300 ohm rating at 380 mw and 190 mw at 600 ohm - reasonably priced - substantially more output than K5

Sorry, PapaThrust--where's this Paul you spoke with? I would love to have a word with him. Usually we are a diplomatic lot and do not take to disagreeing with representatives of other companies lightly, but in this case I don't see the harm in it--not least because Paul would seem to be contradicting official specifications data on the DT880, which lists a power handling capacity of no more than 100mW even for the DT880-250 PRO version. One should note that with a nominal sensitivity of 96dB/mW, the DT880-250 would reach an ear-splitting 116dB with 100mW input, so it's no wonder that they may start falling apart above that level...

 

[haiku]

+1
Look, PapaThrust
 

dB/mW ↓	105	110	115	< Peak SPL
85	100.0	316.2	1000.0
88	50.1	158.5	501.2
91	25.1	79.4	251.2
94	12.6	39.8	125.9
97	6.3	20.0	63.1
100	3.2	10.0	31.6
103	1.6	5.0	15.8
106	0.8	2.5	7.9
109	0.4	1.3	4.0
112	0.2	0.6	2.0
115	0.1	0.3	1.0
118	0.1	0.2	0.5

 

[kdub]

I posted the below in the K5 thread but would like some comments in here as well.

"Hi so the JDS O2 can provide 88mW if I paired it with the Beyerdynamics DT880 (600 ohm model).

DT-880s are rated 96 dB/mW at 600 ohms, so they need 79 mW of power to reach optimal performance.

Alternatively if one prefers to listen at extraordinary volumes, JDS has The Element (140 mW @ 600 ohms).

Question is what are the specs of the FiiO K5 and the high power X7 amp module? Does it match the The Element ? I want to drive these DT880 to their full sonic potential in terms of quality and not so much in volume as I listen to my music at modest dB. Would the high power amp or K5 be suitable to pair with X7 and DT880 cans?"

 

[PapaThrust]

Sorry, PapaThrust--where's this Paul you spoke with? I would love to have a word with him. Usually we are a diplomatic lot and do not take to disagreeing with representatives of other companies lightly, but in this case I don't see the harm in it--not least because Paul would seem to be contradicting official specifications data on the DT880, which lists a power handling capacity of no more than 100mW even for the DT880-250 PRO version. One should note that with a nominal sensitivity of 96dB/mW, the DT880-250 would reach an ear-splitting 116dB with 100mW input, so it's no wonder that they may start falling apart above that level...

 
 Joe
 
 Where is Paul? I'll go out on a limb and say New York. I simply Googled Beyerdynamic and before long I was able to speak with him.
But I suspect you don't really want to speak with him.
(BTW - the topic was completely unrelated to this discussion as to why I contacted Beyerdynamic)
 
Numbers on paper 
 
It may be  very helpful to hear what you and Haiku and others can offer about the very real scenario when I listen to a recording and there is plenty of volume/headroom, then I switch to a different recording and there is substantially less volume. So much that sometimes I can run the volume ALL THE WAY UP and still "no ear splitting levels" as you might say. This is especially true  ( for me) of the X7 and the EQ on with the 6db loss and the IEM amp.
 
 
My original point was 100% about the wide variations in program material have lead me down or up the path of wanting more available power.  To note: "Yes, however the wide variations in program material volume make it challenging without a lot more gain."
Is not the output directly related to the input? 
 
 If none of the "Number Flashers" claim to have ever experienced this, then I'll need to say "Sorry" and call BS.
 
 My hearing is in the normal range for a 57 yr old. Was checked  by professional just about 7 months ago.
My listening is done mostly from MBP, iTunes & Duet2 or the Fiio X7.
 
My conclusion about part of my conversion with a Beyerdynamic rep stands:
It could help reach desired listening levels with .5 watt @ 250 ohms and the DT880s and my related gear.

 

[jamato8]

   
 Joe
 
 Where is Paul? I'll go out on a limb and say New York. I simply Googled Beyerdynamic and before long I was able to speak with him.
But I suspect you don't really want to speak with him.
(BTW - the topic was completely unrelated to this discussion as to why I contacted Beyerdynamic)
 
Numbers on paper 
 
It may be  very helpful to hear what you and Haiku and others can offer about the very real scenario when I listen to a recording and there is plenty of volume/headroom, then I switch to a different recording and there is substantially less volume. So much that sometimes I can run the volume ALL THE WAY UP and still "no ear splitting levels" as you might say. This is especially true  ( for me) of the X7 and the EQ on with the 6db loss and the IEM amp.
 
 
My original point was 100% about the wide variations in program material have lead me down or up the path of wanting more available power.  To note: "Yes, however the wide variations in program material volume make it challenging without a lot more gain."
Is not the output directly related to the input? 
 
 If none of the "Number Flashers" claim to have ever experienced this, then I'll need to say "Sorry" and call BS.
 
 My hearing is in the normal range for a 57 yr old. Was checked  by professional just about 7 months ago.
My listening is done mostly from MBP, iTunes & Duet2 or the Fiio X7.
 
My conclusion about part of my conversion with a Beyerdynamic rep stands:
It could help reach desired listening levels with .5 watt @ 250 ohms and the DT880s and my related gear.

Why wouldn't he want to speak to him? Nothing wrong with dialogue and clearing up any misunderstandings or differences of opinion. 
 
Having used and built tube equipment and having had platters in the past in all tube systems and also SS, both can do complete justice, IMO. But maybe I am misreading something here. On the X7 the amp module 2 handles many phones with ease, the IEM module was never meant to, from what I can see/hear. 

 

[x RELIC x]

Not sure if this has been mentioned previously...

Can someone please clarify What is the max bitrate output of the coaxial digital output?

Thanks.

I think unless your receiver or external dac upsamples it should be 24/96

Correction - 24/192 is the max bit / sample rate for coaxial output.

FiiO may implement DSD over DoP through coaxial like they have for the X3ii/X5ii, but I can not test this.

 

[PapaThrust]

 
Why wouldn't he want to speak to him? Nothing wrong with dialogue and clearing up any misunderstandings or differences of opinion. 
 
Having used and built tube equipment and having had platters in the past in all tube systems and also SS, both can do complete justice, IMO. But maybe I am misreading something here. On the X7 the amp module 2 handles many phones with ease, the IEM module was never meant to, from what I can see/hear. 

Well- after reading Joe's post several times it seemed like I was being accused (indirectly) of fabrication or lying. My apologies if I read too far into that.

 

[soundify]

Correction - 24/192 is the max bit / sample rate for coaxial output.

FiiO may implement DSD over DoP through coaxial like they have for the X3ii/X5ii, but I can not test this.

Thanks for the info!

 

[crapboy]

Soooo..Any release date on AM2?

 

[Joe Bloggs]

 Joe

 Where is Paul? I'll go out on a limb and say New York. I simply Googled Beyerdynamic and before long I was able to speak with him.
But I suspect you don't really want to speak with him.
(BTW - the topic was completely unrelated to this discussion as to why I contacted Beyerdynamic)

Numbers on paper 

It may be  very helpful to hear what you and Haiku and others can offer about the very real scenario when I listen to a recording and there is plenty of volume/headroom, then I switch to a different recording and there is substantially less volume. So much that sometimes I can run the volume ALL THE WAY UP and still "no ear splitting levels" as you might say. This is especially true  ( for me) of the X7 and the EQ on with the 6db loss and the IEM amp.

I thought this discussion was about the K5? If regarding the X7 AM1--sure, it may not be enough for you. Still, I would look into at least setting High gain and also factory resetting the X7 after the latest 1.8 firmware update, because the update is supposed to fix the volume issue but only after a factory reset (or three) Even so this issue doesn't affect the FiiO Music player...

As for the X7+K5 DAC combo, if High gain and max volume on the K5 were not loud enough for you, I would look at the computer and check whether all the volume sliders there are actually maxed out in the first place.

I also use ReplayGain to level the volume differences between recordings. To a first approximation it does this by turning down the volume of all recordings to the quietest recordings I have--yet I have no issues using the Beyer DT880-250 with the lowly FiiO E17K by itself (which would output into the DT880 power in the low two digit mW range max, though granted, it has 3 gain levels, just like the K5), let alone docked into the K5.

My original point was 100% about the wide variations in program material have lead me down or up the path of wanting more available power.  To note: "Yes, however the wide variations in program material volume make it challenging without a lot more gain."
Is not the output directly related to the input? 

 If none of the "Number Flashers" claim to have ever experienced this, then I'll need to say "Sorry" and call BS.

 My hearing is in the normal range for a 57 yr old. Was checked  by professional just about 7 months ago.
My listening is done mostly from MBP, iTunes & Duet2 or the Fiio X7.

My conclusion about part of my conversion with a Beyerdynamic rep stands:
It could help reach desired listening levels with .5 watt @ 250 ohms and the DT880s and my related gear.

Or one could conclude that there are quiet parts to classical music that are meant to be quiet no matter how far you crank the volume knob? If you disagree with that, there are various volume compressor plugins I could introduce you to Not that I use them in attaining the results above

 

[Joe Bloggs]

 


Why wouldn't he want to speak to him? Nothing wrong with dialogue and clearing up any misunderstandings or differences of opinion. 

Having used and built tube equipment and having had platters in the past in all tube systems and also SS, both can do complete justice, IMO. But maybe I am misreading something here. On the X7 the amp module 2 handles many phones with ease, the IEM module was never meant to, from what I can see/hear. 

Well- after reading Joe's post several times it seemed like I was being accused (indirectly) of fabrication or lying. My apologies if I read too far into that.

No no no, I would never accuse a customer like that! It is Paul's statements I had issue with, like I said in so many words.

 

[Brooko]

Real world test.
 
Fiio X7 docked into K5.  X7 as DAC.  K5 set on medium gain, volume knob at maybe between 1pm and 2pm.
 
Headphones used were Beyerdynamic T1, 600 ohm
 
Track used was Julia Fischer, Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto in D, Op. 35: I. Allegro moderato
 
I used this track because it has a lot of dynamics and is recorded pretty quietly.  Between 1-2pm on the pot (measured with a calibrated SPL meter) gives quiet passages as low as high 50's, and peaks at 90 dB, and averages in the mid 70's low 80's.
 
With the knob at max volume, those peaks are 95 dB+.  Engage high gain at max and you're pushing through 100 dB on peaks, and averaging 90dB.
 
My normal listening to this set-up (comfortable) would be K5 at 12pm, medium gain (for classical). Switching to Dire Straits Sultans of Swing, and I have to go back to 10 o'clock, med gain.
 
I'm 49 (next week), have some high frequency hearing loss, and the K5 has no issues with this particular pair of 600 ohm T1's.  Saying that though - I still prefer them with a tube set-up 

 

 

[Unfie]

Come on, Fiio; make a tube setup happen whether it’s through a K5-like external amp or X7 module. You know you want to do it!

 

[haiku]

AM2 is out! 

 
Click for Ali Express Link

 

[White Lotus]

 

 

 
FiiO LC X7B - Leather case. Really nice quality, snug fit, and makes me less nervous about putting the unit down on hard services. A++