[shakur1996]

Before I comment I want to clarify that I'm about to share a differing perspective, but it is in no way at all meant to make your perspective less important or valid.

My take on a DAP (emphasising that this is just or me and not saying your take is wrong in any way) is that I use it on the go and therefore mostly with IEMs so I would personally prefer the highest quality sound even if it means less power. Of course if we can have both then that's great, but quality of power and portability (i.e. small size) would be my preference over an emphasis on quantity of power.
I'm interested to see the way FiiO ends up going on this and quietly hope we can have both lots of power when required and also awesome quality with sensitive IEMs, but I know that can be a tall order

Completely agree. DAP is the device to be used on the go. IMO for people who want to listen to high impedance headphones there are stationery DACs/AMPs and if one wants to listen to his high impedance headphones on the go he/she should be aware of the necessity to add an AMP to drive them. I really don't like this trend to focus on power in the portable devices (complete nonsene).

 

[alnilam]

Thank you violencer and CasperBxl!

Certainly, it would be nice to have OTG in X7 - but still, I would like to learn more about microSD-to-SATA interface option.
 
Also, I would be happy with any other interface, which would allow me to connect X7 to a small external SATA drive with 100% certainty.
 
Yes, 2.5" HD consumes more energy, compared to SSD - but, when on battery power, I only need to run it for a few minutes to copy some files to X7.
 
I'm afraid FiiO decision makers may underestimate the psychology of users, who can't wait to break free of Apple shackles, and it seems that in essence they follow pretty much the same authoritarian path (like 'we tell customers what their options will be, and not the other way around').
 
At the moment I guess my options are rather on the side of buying additional modded iPod Classic players ('devil you know') and using them with a good headphone amplifier, than on the side of buying too restricted and limited X7, no matter how great it may sound (I can compromise on sound quality, to some extent - but I cannot compromise on storage capacity).

 

[Lurker0]

Recently announced Cayin N6 has native DSD playback (incl. direct support for SACD ISO images!) with PGA2311 for analog volume control. So looks like at the beginning of 2015 such features will become de facto standard for DAPs under $1000.
 
If X7 would miss similar features, it will look not that attractive!

 

[Ripvanlink]

Completely agree. DAP is the device to be used on the go. IMO for people who want to listen to high impedance headphones there are stationery DACs/AMPs and if one wants to listen to his high impedance headphones on the go he/she should be aware of the necessity to add an AMP to drive them. I really don't like this trend to focus on power in the portable devices (complete nonsene).

If you're not jumping around as in a gym and maybe just riding on the bus or walking in the park, then carrying an amp like the E12 is not a terrible idea. Then you can listen to your oversize headphones w/o much trouble. You can even carry the dap and amp in a small shoulder bag and the weight of them would not get in the way of such activity and it would still be more or less portable.
Otherwise, I fully agree with Shakur that what you're asking for is unrealistic and nonsense.
For myself, I would much rather focus on the quality of sound with iems and phones more practical for being outside and active with little sacrifice in terms of head gear. For instance, a K10 would hardly be any kind of sacrifice in my book. That's of course IMHO.

 

[xp9433]

Originally Posted by xp9433 
 
We have all talked about SQ & convenience & price, but what about  output power. Output power has a major influence on SQ, particular when driving higher quality full size headphones.
 
The original X7 specs were listed as 320 mw @ 32 ohms (only slightly more than the X5)
The Fiio E12 is rated at 880mw @ 32 ohms and is capable of driving most headphones. The X5 can’t, at least not with highest fidelity.
 
For me output power and the capacity to mate with top headphones (you can name them) is crucial in a flagship X7.
 
I would like the X7 to be an upgraded X5 combined with an upgraded E12 - in one case!
 
Reply Posted by Loquah /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
 
Before I comment I want to clarify that I'm about to share a differing perspective, but it is in no way at all meant to make your perspective less important or valid.
 
My take on a DAP (emphasising that this is just or me and not saying your take is wrong in any way) is that I use it on the go and therefore mostly with IEMs so I would personally prefer the highest quality sound even if it means less power. Of course if we can have both then that's great, but quality of power and portability (i.e. small size) would be my preference over an emphasis on quantity of power.
 
I'm interested to see the way FiiO ends up going on this and quietly hope we can have both lots of power when required and also awesome quality with sensitive IEMs, but I know that can be a tall order

Loguah
 
Where we differ most is what best describes a "statement product". We are talking about Fiio's statement DAP aren't we? Fiio described the X7 that way haven't they? If so, the X7 is it for Fiio.
 
What do all audio manufacturers try to achieve in their statement products? In their source/pre stages the most detailed, transparent, neutral, and open SQ. In their power amp stages the same, but with the power and capability of driving the best speakers available.
 
If Fiio are only trying to produce an upgraded X5 with better UI, but no better capability to drive "statement" headphones, then I guess I have misunderstood Fiio's intentions.
The X7 will not be a statement product. It will always be just an "partially" upgraded X5, with limited use. It worries me that Fiio, who already have an amp like the E12, are not thinking of incorporating those capabilities into their top integrated DAP and most expensive product. Sad.
 
The argument about what our personal use expectations are, is a separate argument all together. For my use, I want my DAP to do it all. It looks as if the X7 won't be my statement product. I guess I was hoping for a product that could compete with the likes of the HM901. That is not a possibility for the X7 without a better power amp stage.
 
Frank

 

[Lurker0]

xp9433, I believe the primary goal of most of manufacturers is to sell their product, not to be proud of it. For good sales, it is enough to satisfy 80-90% of the target customers. That's why not each and every car is 4x4, by the way

 

[Loquah]

Hi Frank. I'm not speaking for FiiO with my opinions so they may well be doing what you're hoping for and your reasoning is very sound (no pun intended).

 

[Makiah S]

Hi Frank. I'm not speaking for FiiO with my opinions so they may well be doing what you're hoping for and your reasoning is very sound (no pun intended).

*chuckles* iems
 
honestly at this point I don't care about power in a DAP, for the dac chip set should be where your sink your money into and then a clean onboard amp, the reasoning behind it all is you give iem guys a simple all in one solution and those of us who walk around with full size cans have a clean line out to external amps
 
Although I thought Fiio Closed this thread a few months back? Not closed it, but reached a point where they had gather enough information
 
either way we are just re hashing old issues 

 

[shakur1996]

ETA is 2015, but did James write whether this will be the first quarter of 2015 or second quarter or end of 2015.

 

[Bellyworshipper]

  Recently announced Cayin N6 has native DSD playback (incl. direct support for SACD ISO images!) with PGA2311 for analog volume control. So looks like at the beginning of 2015 such features will become de facto standard for DAPs under $1000.
 
If X7 would miss similar features, it will look not that attractive!

OFFTOP: Notwithstanding the alleged DSD x128 (5,6 MHz sampling rate) native support by the DAP, the DAC chip (PCM 1792A), which the N6 is built on, seems to support the x64 DSD mode only (http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/pcm1792a.pdf ,   page 2: "DATA FORMAT (DSD Mode)-fS Sampling frequency 2.8224 MHz", and page 42: "2.8224 MHz × 4. (2.8224 MHz = 64 × 44.1 kHz. This value is specified as a sampling rate of DSD", which might be specified as an example only, still I haven't found any 5,6 MHz indications and references pertaining to DSD supported mode). Which leaves the question of genuine "native DSD support" implemented in the N6 DAP open. Correct me, if I'm wrong
 

 If X7 would miss similar features, it will look not that attractive

It will, at least theoretically, have the infamous "native DSD support" implemented (up to x256 mode owing to foppish ESS Sabre chip used)  

 

[xp9433]

  xp9433, I believe the primary goal of most of manufacturers is to sell their product, not to be proud of it. For good sales, it is enough to satisfy 80-90% of the target customers. That's why not each and every car is 4x4, by the way

Not saying Fiio won't have a market for the X7. But IMO Fiio are making a BMW 318 - nice car - but I was hoping for a BMW M3

 

[D3Seeker]

*chuckles* iems

honestly at this point I don't care about power in a DAP, for the dac chip set should be where your sink your money into and then a clean onboard amp, the reasoning behind it all is you give iem guys a simple all in one solution and those of us who walk around with full size cans have a clean line out to external amps

Although I thought Fiio Closed this thread a few months back? Not closed it, but reached a point where they had gather enough information

either way we are just re hashing old issues 

The best of the best DACs will get curbstomped by a subpar amp...... if a pure stack is what some are going for perhaps we shoul find a better way of reaching out to someone for a simple transport.

 

[Makiah S]

The best of the best DACs will get curbstomped by a subpar amp...... if a pure stack is what some are going for perhaps we shoul find a better way of reaching out to someone for a simple transport.

and that's biggest issue with DAPS right now, how we use them. I'm not a huge fan of the "pure" transport idea. I like my DAP to be my UI and my Dac, and run it line level out to an amp. I'm still not super into the Triple Stack. I like my double as it is
 
then there are other guys who want a single stack, good dac and Amp in one
 
then there are guys who JUST want a transport

 

[Ripvanlink]

  and that's biggest issue with DAPS right now, how we use them. I'm not a huge fan of the "pure" transport idea. I like my DAP to be my UI and my Dac, and run it line level out to an amp. I'm still not super into the Triple Stack. I like my double as it is
 
then there are other guys who want a single stack, good dac and Amp in one
 
then there are guys who JUST want a transport

I want a DAP that can transport ME!

 

[Makiah S]

  I want a DAP that can transport ME!

I had one of those... I loved it, then I wrecked it... and now I'm sad