[x RELIC x]

I actually think the opposite. X5 and DX90 for example already has a powerful and excellent amp for a portable device. In what way an external amp superior to internal amp in a portable setup? Most people would use iems and sensitive phones.

I understand using an extenal amp for hard to drive cans but that application is for home and I would rather get a desktop amp instead of a portable one.

With X7 supporting modular amps stacking becomes more redundant and something a stack can never beat.

For my uses a portable amp prevents/helps me from purchasing a full sized amp for every room I want listen to music in with my full sized headphones. I have my special seat with my amp, but I'm not always listening there.

 

[olddude]

For my uses a portable amp prevents/helps me from purchasing a full sized amp for every room I want listen to music in with my full sized headphones. I have my special seat with my amp, but I'm not always listening there.

Right, which was why I was talking about true portable (walking-around use) not needing one.   In the house is a different matter.  

  Or did you really mean this?

:
 
 

 
 
 
                                                 

 

I guess i'm glad you didn't add the extra "r" to it!

 

[Mython]

 
I guess i'm glad you didn't add the extra "r" to it!

 
 
Well, that's not the 1st of it's ilk:
 
http://www.guiltfreepost.com/2014/05/neil-youngs-music-crusade/
 
 
Glad you're enjoying the player, anyway

 

[olddude]

Detail is really good.  Even with 16/44 CD rips it's impressive.  

 

[privilege15]

   
I actually think the opposite. X5 and DX90 for example already has a powerful and excellent amp for a portable device. In what way an external amp superior to internal amp in a portable setup? Most people would use iems and sensitive phones.
 
I understand using an extenal amp for hard to drive cans but that application is for home and I would rather get a desktop amp instead of a portable one.
 
With X7 supporting modular amps stacking becomes more redundant and something a stack can never beat.

 
Headphone amps aren't just used for more volume/power, but better control of the headphone drivers they power. Just like two cars: a general consumer car and a sports car both can make it up to 100kmp/h and drive along a winding road but which one will do it more exquisitely and provide better experience, more control, comfort and pleasure?
 
Also the great benefits from good amplifiers come in resolution. It is in the quality of the reproduction, the timbre of the instruments, the subtle nuances etc. that will improve with good amplifiers. The reason for this is that bad amplifiers lose this information in the amplification process and no matter how good the headphones might be, they will never regain information lost by a bad amplifier.
 
Ultimately what makes a pair of headphones, an amp and a good source is the character of the sound. Some amps distort the signal (especially the built-in and cheap ones). When you get a separate amp you're not just trying to get more power, but also trying to route your signal to a better Opamp to reduce or eliminate that distortion. How good is an opamp inside a built-in amp? Will a manufacturer insert a pair of Muses01 for $160$ (official retail price) + buffers for at least 40$ making it $200 just for microchips inside? The end price will be too high for an average consumer. That is why any built-in amp has to compromise with the quality of opamps and buffers to compete in the market. I don't say they are bad, I just say they would likely be a medium-fi level. The system is as good as its weakest link in the chain.

 

[waynes world]

  Actually, I challenge anyone to tell the thread that my AK100 II is not the prettiest little lady they have ever seen in the audiophile market. 

 
Challenge accepted! Xuelin Ihifi 770:
 

 

[514077]

   
Headphone amps aren't just used for more volume/power, but better control of the headphone drivers they power. Just like two cars: a general consumer car and a sports car both can make it up to 100kmp/h and drive along a winding road but which one will do it more exquisitely and provide better experience, more control, comfort and pleasure?
 
Also the great benefits from good amplifiers come in resolution. It is in the quality of the reproduction, the timbre of the instruments, the subtle nuances etc. that will improve with good amplifiers. The reason for this is that bad amplifiers lose this information in the amplification process and no matter how good the headphones might be, they will never regain information lost by a bad amplifier.
 
Ultimately what makes a pair of headphones, an amp and a good source is the character of the sound. Some amps distort the signal (especially the built-in and cheap ones). When you get a separate amp you're not just trying to get more power, but also trying to route your signal to a better Opamp to reduce or eliminate that distortion. How good is an opamp inside a built-in amp? Will a manufacturer insert a pair of Muses01 for $160$ (official retail price) + buffers for at least 40$ making it $200 just for microchips inside? The end price will be too high for an average consumer. That is why any built-in amp has to compromise with the quality of opamps and buffers to compete in the market. I don't say they are bad, I just say they would likely be a medium-fi level. The system is as good as its weakest link in the chain.

I get what you mean.  But, the improvement of an external amp over a source would depend-I think-on source quality.  When I used my IPod Classic, I got the UHA-6: mk 2 for a great improvement through a LOD.  I don't use it any more since I got the X5.  I found it unnecessary.  TEHO

 

[headwhacker]

   
Headphone amps aren't just used for more volume/power, but better control of the headphone drivers they power. Just like two cars: a general consumer car and a sports car both can make it up to 100kmp/h and drive along a winding road but which one will do it more exquisitely and provide better experience, more control, comfort and pleasure?
 
Also the great benefits from good amplifiers come in resolution. It is in the quality of the reproduction, the timbre of the instruments, the subtle nuances etc. that will improve with good amplifiers. The reason for this is that bad amplifiers lose this information in the amplification process and no matter how good the headphones might be, they will never regain information lost by a bad amplifier.
 
Ultimately what makes a pair of headphones, an amp and a good source is the character of the sound. Some amps distort the signal (especially the built-in and cheap ones). When you get a separate amp you're not just trying to get more power, but also trying to route your signal to a better Opamp to reduce or eliminate that distortion. How good is an opamp inside a built-in amp? Will a manufacturer insert a pair of Muses01 for $160$ (official retail price) + buffers for at least 40$ making it $200 just for microchips inside? The end price will be too high for an average consumer. That is why any built-in amp has to compromise with the quality of opamps and buffers to compete in the market. I don't say they are bad, I just say they would likely be a medium-fi level. The system is as good as its weakest link in the chain.

 
Both X5 and DX90 for example have proven to already have very low noise and distortion. Capable of driving a wide range of headphones very well. Even some full size cans like HE-400i is driven well by both DAPs alone.
 
Control over headphone drivers has nothing to do with the opamps in the amp circuit. The amp must have enough power and damping factor on a given headphone load. Majority of people use low impedance phones with DAPs so it's important the amp has low output impedance and current depending on the headphone's sensitivity.
 
Don't confuse the built-in amps in niche DAPs with smartphones or iPod.
 
If you look inside an X5 and DX90. Majority of the circuit board is occupied by the amp circuit. They have even better performance/measurements than most portable amps out there .
 
Starting at least with DX90 and X5, they make portable amps useless because they don't add much with the built-in amp these DAPs already have.
 
Expensive and exotic opamps may sound nice but they are not guaranteed to sound good just by slapping it to any amp. A good, well-thought design and implementation determines how good an amp will perform not by the opamp it has. O2 is a good example. The opamp alone no matter how good will sound worse if not properly implemented. Remember, each component in the amp circuit introduce noise and distortion.
 
DAP companies like Fiio and iBasso doesn't have the same limitations in terms of amp circuit design like Apple and Samsung.
 
Making X7's amp modular is the next step forward to eliminate the so called "limitations" with built-in amps on DAPs.

 

[headwhacker]

 
I get what you mean.  But, the improvement of an external amp over a source would depend-I think-on source quality.  When I used my IPod Classic, I got the UHA-6: mk 2 for a great improvement through a LOD.  I don't use it any more since I got the X5.  I found it unnecessary.  TEHO

 
Exactly, my Leckerton amp is collecting dust right now. I tried different opamps with it but it just has no advantage over what X5 or DX90's built-in amp already has. The UHA-6SMKII is underpowered even with the AD8620 dual-opamp compared to X5 or DX90.

 

[kdub]

@originalsnuffy
 - this might be a little more useful for you ..... from an earlier post by alnilam

• Dimension: 128x16x64mm (this may have changed - refer pic below from James)
• Screen: 3.97 inch full touch IPS (this may have changed - refer pic below from James)
• Battery life: > 8 hours
• Battery: 3700mAh
• Hardware buttons: power, play/pause, previous/next, volume+/- and one secret bottom
• Input/Output interface:
  
  - microSD slot x 1
  
  - micro USB x 1
  
  - 3.5mm Line Out
  
  - coaxial output
  
  - Headphone out x 1, the output jack will change from 3.5mm output jack
  
  - 4 pin balanced output ( same as ALO/RSA ), depended on the headphone amp module
• Built in memory: 32 GB - may also be a more expensive Pro model with up to 128Gb
• Wifi/Bluetooth support
• DAC: ESS9018 X 1, ESS9018 already includes 8 channels DAC so it does not need 2 DAC chips
• OP and Buf for AMP, depended on headphone amp module
• Output power and power supply: depend on the amp module
• SoC: RK3188
• Built in memory: 32GB
• RAM: 1GB
• Price ~ $699
• Android based OS - should be options to add audio apps.

Front



Back (still sorting options)

With the options chosen - still seems to be (to me anyway) a pretty good concept for an audiophile DAP - matching hardware for sonics with reasonable options for wide ranging useability.  The wifi should be good for streaming. The bluetooth for use in a vehicle, or with BT speakers/headsets.

From what I have already tried (and owned) of Fiio products, I think they're doing a great job of trying to meet as many needs as possible.

Sorry just catching up on this thread from some absent time. So what's the reasoning for having just 1 microSD slot and not 2 like the X5? Would have preferred 2.

 

[headwhacker]

For my uses a portable amp prevents/helps me from purchasing a full sized amp for every room I want listen to music in with my full sized headphones. I have my special seat with my amp, but I'm not always listening there.

 
I guess X7 will make that possible for you. With X5 and DX90 driving my HE-400i is already a reality for me. If Fiio makes an amp for X7 that can drive 600 ohm cans then I can do that as well with my T1.

 

[privilege15]

It seems to me you just haven't tried designated good portable amps in price category over $300 and defending your position based on your own experience. I can't beat that)

 

[headwhacker]

  It seems to me you just haven't tried designated good portable amps in price category over $300 and defending your position based on your own experience. I can't beat that)

 
I have learned that price has nothing to do with the quality of audio gears. Been frequenting audio shops and tried a whole lot. Amps are the most debated gear and where misinformation are a plenty.

 

[olddude]

One mSD card slot "sacrificed" for wifi plug-in.  Otherwise wifi has to go elsewhere and will create less battery use time.  Fiio figures 256mb cards are coming soon, in the meantime make do with 128.  I really don't think Fiio cares if people want to jam their entire music library on the device at this moment.  Something had to give, and it was the second slot.

 

[olddude]

I see this amp argument all the time, it's similar to the "how much more can you hear with 16bit or 24bit files" argument.  Never gonna be resolved because there are plenty of opinions and no real facts (here we go).  
 
For many of us the amp in the X5 is fine for all iems and many headphones.  Some people want more.  Fine.  Let's all agree that we disagree.  
 
The X7 is going to have amp modules that you can buy and I assume swap out for different one for different uses.  That should please many many people.  The hardcore amp folks, probably not.  
 
No reason to drag the argument around the block again.