[jamjar]

Hi
I am using FW2.07Beta and I am quite new to DAP's, spent lots of time listening to music on my iphone through an ok pair of Sony £30 ear buds. After a splurg of cash on an X5, an E12 and a pair of Beyer T51P's I have been listening to some higher quality tracks. Some tracks really show what you have been missing out on since music files got squashed. Now I can't come up with some of the really eloquent descriptions some of you audiophiles produce, don't think my ears are that good. I have listened to one HD track that I downloaded recently that I have been listening to in squashed format for a few years. It's a track by Ryuichi Sakamoto, Merry Christmas Mr Lawrence, played on the X5 through the E12 and with the Beyers it's just stunning. The track starts of with series of notes played on a piano, the melody is gorgeous anyway but you can hear the thud of the wood keys on the felt as well as the pure notes from the piano strings. Perhaps the music is just so clear and intense you imagine the physical action of the piano creating the notes. Listen to it and enjoy.

 

[ghostwraith]

Equipment. This equipment has been tested and calibrated state.
http://imgur.com/a/41k2P#0
2.07
http://imgur.com/a/RgI7b
2.20
http://imgur.com/a/eQiwN
 

evidence on the face of interference is more than 2 times of 2.2, 2.2 vs 2.07 used screening tracks 5, 10, 25, 50, 100, 500, 1000, 21000, 22000 Hz, Flac 24bit/196khz. I hear it, otherwise I would not have done the test. Tests have shown a considerable increase of noise. If you do not hear you, then you have bad headphones or hearing problems. Since firmware 2.2 records do not play is not clean, blurry.
 
As a means of measurements performed state standards: oscilloscope and resistor. Manufacturer and type, you can see from the photos. Assembly diagram is simple: connect the cable mini-plug into the player, on the other hand by using the "crocodiles remove" signal from one of the channels, see the reproduced signal on the oscilloscope screen. oscilloscope as a measuring instrument is able to determine the frequency ranging from 20 Hz, and shows the signal amplitude voltage.Workplace, as well as the standards are shown in the photos. were selected signals: sinusoidal frequencies of 5, 10, 25, 50, 100, 250, 500, 1000, 2500, 5000, 7500, 10000, 12500, 15000, 17500, 20000, 21000, 22000, 23000 Hz; triangular shapes frequencies 1000, 5000, 10,000, 15,000 Hz; rectangular wave frequencies 1000, 5000, 10000, 15000 Hz. Signal is removed from the line-out with a load of 32 ohms.It was interesting as it reproduces signals triangular shape with the frequencies 1000, 5000, 10,000, 15,000 Hz; rectangular wave frequencies 1000, 5000, 10000, 15000 Hz. But they will not show, because there is quite bad. Player to use as a frequency generator is impossible. On the other hand there is an idea, why not make a player that would reproduce the signal with absolute certainty? because then we would have heard and all that is recorded in the studio with sterile cleanliness. Maybe expensive players do exactly that?
 
As we can see, the difference is still there on the way out ...

 

[Loquah]

  Equipment. This equipment has been tested and calibrated state.
http://imgur.com/a/41k2P#0
2.07
http://imgur.com/a/RgI7b
2.20
http://imgur.com/a/eQiwN
 

evidence on the face of interference is more than 2 times of 2.2, 2.2 vs 2.07 used screening tracks 5, 10, 25, 50, 100, 500, 1000, 21000, 22000 Hz, Flac 24bit/196khz. I hear it, otherwise I would not have done the test. Tests have shown a considerable increase of noise. If you do not hear you, then you have bad headphones or hearing problems. Since firmware 2.2 records do not play is not clean, blurry.
 
As a means of measurements performed state standards: oscilloscope and resistor. Manufacturer and type, you can see from the photos. Assembly diagram is simple: connect the cable mini-plug into the player, on the other hand by using the "crocodiles remove" signal from one of the channels, see the reproduced signal on the oscilloscope screen. oscilloscope as a measuring instrument is able to determine the frequency ranging from 20 Hz, and shows the signal amplitude voltage.Workplace, as well as the standards are shown in the photos. were selected signals: sinusoidal frequencies of 5, 10, 25, 50, 100, 250, 500, 1000, 2500, 5000, 7500, 10000, 12500, 15000, 17500, 20000, 21000, 22000, 23000 Hz; triangular shapes frequencies 1000, 5000, 10,000, 15,000 Hz; rectangular wave frequencies 1000, 5000, 10000, 15000 Hz. Signal is removed from the line-out with a load of 32 ohms.It was interesting as it reproduces signals triangular shape with the frequencies 1000, 5000, 10,000, 15,000 Hz; rectangular wave frequencies 1000, 5000, 10000, 15000 Hz. But they will not show, because there is quite bad. Player to use as a frequency generator is impossible. On the other hand there is an idea, why not make a player that would reproduce the signal with absolute certainty? because then we would have heard and all that is recorded in the studio with sterile cleanliness. Maybe expensive players do exactly that?
 
As we can see, the difference is still there on the way out ...

 
Please stop posting this on various forums until you test it using the correct load on the correct output. You have used a 32 ohm load on the line out that is not designed for that low a load. Your results aren't proving anything until you measure correctly.

 

[ghostwraith]

   
Please stop posting this on various forums until you test it using the correct load on the correct output. You have used a 32 ohm load on the line out that is not designed for that low a load. Your results aren't proving anything until you measure correctly.

people need to know the truth ... people need to know the truth ... until what is, and the difference is visible even so ... I hope to get more tests done soon ...

 

[Loquah]

  people need to know the truth ... people need to know the truth ... until what is, and the difference is visible even so ... I hope to get more tests done soon ...

 
I agree and if you test it properly I will enjoy seeing and discussing the truth. My problem is that we discussed on the other thread that your measurements aren't valid so at the moment you're misleading people. I'd love to see the correct and accurate tests so please do share them when you do them, but please don't keep using these tests to make any claims because they're currently not valid.

 

[ghostwraith]

   
I agree and if you test it properly I will enjoy seeing and discussing the truth. My problem is that we discussed on the other thread that your measurements aren't valid so at the moment you're misleading people. I'd love to see the correct and accurate tests so please do share them when you do them, but please don't keep using these tests to make any claims because they're currently not valid.

 


 

 
but I still believe my ears, and his wife

 

[blades]

And without that belief the audiophile world would collapse.

 

[castleofargh]

 

   
Please stop posting this on various forums until you test it using the correct load on the correct output. You have used a 32 ohm load on the line out that is not designed for that low a load. Your results aren't proving anything until you measure correctly.

people need to know the truth ... people need to know the truth ... until what is, and the difference is visible even so ... I hope to get more tests done soon ...

what Loquah is saying is: all you showed is that a line out shouldn't be used with IEMs ^_^.
show us the line out signal with something like a 4000ohm load, or redo what you did but this time plugged on the headphone out, not the line out. as 32ohm load is perfectly fine for HO.
your pic clearly shows you used the line out making your test very wrong and the result meaningless. (it doesn't mean that there won't be a difference when done right, it just means that you can't prove it with what you've done).
we're always happy to have measurements of pretty much anything even if curioity's a sin   but what you did is wrong, never an amp input would be as low as 32ohm.

 

[koiloco]

  what Loquah is saying is: all you showed is that a line out shouldn't be used with IEMs ^_^.
show us the line out signal with something like a 4000ohm load, or redo what you did but this time plugged on the headphone out, not the line out. as 32ohm load is perfectly fine for HO.
your pic clearly shows you used the line out making your test very wrong and the result meaningless. (it doesn't mean that there won't be a difference when done right, it just means that you can't prove it with what you've done).
we're always happy to have measurements of pretty much anything even if curioity's a sin   but what you did is wrong, never an amp input would be as low as 32ohm.

+1. 
He might not know/understand how to test properly or worse, setting up the test to show that he's right about the sound difference between firmwares.  I've seen many such tests in my 20+ years involvement with audio related hobbies.
 
What Loquah is asking him to do is 100% technically correct and logical.

 

[514077]

Sounds to me like an angry man with an adjenda.  CleoS twelve files were proof enough for me.  But I'm just a piano technician who depends on his ears.
I prefer beautiful sound over the truth.

 

[JSBachFan]

I had a weird experience with the latest update to 2.5
For quite a while I did not make any firmware update. I was still at 2.2. But yesterday I stumbled over the information that 2.5 is available so I installed it.
But: I didn't like it at all.
I listened to Roy Orbison with the firmware 2.5 and was 5 seconds really impressed, that the soundstage became wider, seperation was better and everything pretty "clear".
But then I noticed, that the rythm was gone. I had problems following the music. In other words: The feeling was pretty much gone.
I tried with different songs that I remembered from the session the day before ... the same.
 
Although it was in the middle of the night, I got up an made a downgrade to FW 2.2.
And the music was back!!
 
It has to be said, that I didn't do the comparision that this thread was originally about.
For me it is easier to compare with the music that I know.
 
I will now start comparing all FW after and incl. 2.0 and post the results. Call me crazy but maybe someone is as crazy as me and is interested in the findings.
 
 
Maybe some background, to understand why and how I test:

For around 30 years I am listening and comparing only with my ears and heart. Judgement based on technical results was in general more disappointing than helpful so I gave it up.
Yes, sometimes your ears are fooled. I accept that and there are days / situations where you should not even try to compare.
But most of the time feeling or not feeling the music is a very reliable instrument to judge different sources.
And it is not, that I wouldn't like technical help. But there seems to be "prove" from the technical side, that the whole digital hifi world is very complex and is almost a wonder digital music is good at all. I think the articles of  John Swenson about Digital Audio are a must for all serious people that do not only listen to digital music but also want to understand about some background of high level digital music.
Knowing the content of that article and after a lot of experience with audible changes after software changes in my PC-based digitital system I can tell you that software changes do make a difference. Also unexpected once ...

 

[Joe Bloggs]

Perhaps what happened was that the firmware upgrade got you into "new toy evaluation mode", trying to analyse your music for changes and improvements and losing the enjoyment of just settling down with your favorite tunes?

 

[JSBachFan]

Indeed everything is possible since there is no real proof in my approach. But this time it was a pretty clear effect to me. Otherwise I would not have posted this. I will give it another try and let a friend compare it too. He doesn't like portable digital music so he is kind of an independand reference.

Nobody else feeling like I do?

 

[arnyk]

Indeed everything is possible since there is no real proof in my approach. But this time it was a pretty clear effect to me. Otherwise I would not have posted this. I will give it another try and let a friend compare it too. He doesn't like portable digital music so he is kind of an independand reference.

Nobody else feeling like I do?

 
Got recordings of the same song played with each set of firmware?
 
We could ABX them, and perform some technical tests  and then we would be really sure.

 

[JSBachFan]

In my experience recording and then replaying the files on a different hardware might completely change the results. At least in the direction that there might be no difference any more. The (imo) bad version will of course not get better by recording / replaying.
I was locking for someone who heard (not measured) a difference between the firmwares .. like I did.
If nobody here does comparisons like that ... sorry ... then I posted it in the wrong thread.
 
Btw. I listen with X5 + E12 and (of course) AKG K400.