[Soundtrap]

Thanks everyone.
Which amp would be better quality wise around the same price range? Ifi nano idsd?

Making a different approach, what iem or portable headphones i could try to avoid additional amping, have a significant upgrade compared to dt880 and have similar type of sound so x5iii abilities are fully used. How are senn ie800? Any other idea apprieciated.
By the way, on the road i use sony's mdr-1000x, they have great noise cancellation but sound does not fulfill my needs even though it is still good.

Hard to find portable that can beat DT880. From my experience big upgrade, at least from DT770 Pro and DT990 Premium is HiFi HE4XX (Massdrop version of HE400i) which are not really portable (but I don't mind myself). I haven't heard DT880, but looking at description and reviews they should be right in between 770 and 990 sound spectrum. Sennheiser Momentums are great portable, but from my experience their sound is not in the same league as DT series. I would suggest Focal Spirit S they would not be upgrade but give you totally different "fat " sound as I would call it. Remarkably they don' t lack clarity, nor wide soundstage at all which is a pure witchcraft considering how big, fat sound they reproduce. They are just not as comfy on my head, but give excellent passive isolation.

ps: Almost forgot to mention real portable jewel : Think Sound OE 2. They are on ear, gorgeous wood cups and sound hilariously deep and organic, pure joy to listen too. Sound great with X5III.

 

[LightBlue77]

Thanks, yes it helps, i have 250 ohms version of dt880 so i would say amping might help, but my plan is to upgrade with or without amping. Anyway, seems A5 don't do that much.
The mdr-1000x have 32 ohms or so, they are very easy to drive, still i feel they benefit from amping, they sound somehow better on fiio x3 which have better amping, they are made for 300 ohms compared do 150 on x5.
So which iem/portable headphones are a real upgrade? I was thinking senn ie800. Are there any better options? I mean of course they are but i try to stick to max 800-1000 usd.
Same goes for home listening, is lcd-2 fazor plus ifi idsd nano a good combo? Do i have a portable solution so i won't need additional home gear?

LE: thanks Soundtrap. I would check your suggestions, probably they are not easy to find in my country but let's see. I tried senn momentum, over ear version. Isolation is weak but most importantly sound is not for my tastes, too thin.

 

[ElKabong]

I tried jetAudio plus, but for some reason it sounds totally distorted. Does anybody know what I'm doing wrong?

I'm on the newest version myself without any problems, as Sinarca said check and see what's enabled, too many may result in problems with sound.
My personal favorite is the Bongiovi DPS mode, a lot of different headphone, iem emulations.

 

[Dobrescu George]

IFi dsd black label would

Yep, and quite well!

Based on what George?

Lets look at the power requirements for the LCD-2. I'll borrow this one as its already done ..... saves me recalculating:
https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/221772-calculating-audeze-lcd-2s-power-requirement-vs-o2/

If I use 70 ohm and 101 dB @ 1mW sensitivity (from Audeze's website), then to get to (using http://www.digizoid.com/power.php):

• 120 dB requires 2.36 Vrms, 33.71 mA, and 79.57 mW
• 115 dB requires 1.33 Vrms, 19.00 mA, and 25.27 mW
• 110 dB requires 0.75 Vrms, 10.71 mA, and 8.04 mW
  
• 100 dB requires 0.24 Vrms, 3.43 mA, and 0.82 mW
  
• 85 dB requires 0.04 Vrms, 0.57 mA, and 0.02 mW

A5 will output 150mW into a 300 ohm load at almost 15 Vp-p (5.28 Vrms) and has max output current of 250 mA.

It has more than enough power to drive the LCD-2 to beyond the threshold of pain.

Lieven uses the A5 with his LCD-2 (https://www.headfonia.com/review-fiio-a5-new-e12-aka-fav-fiio-amp/3/) and has no issues.

So on what basis can it "absolutely" not drive the LCD-2 when paired with the X5iii??

I take it you've never tried the pairing - right? (I actually have)

Of course I tried the pairing, otherwise I wouldn't comment.

I wasn't happy with the results, like with E12 AMP.

Have you tried the combo? Do you have an LCD-2?

The e12 drives the LCD-2 just fine so I expect the A5 would as well. Also, when driving the LCD-2 with the X5III there is plenty of volume but the presentation is a bit warm and smooth, just like with every other headphone/IEM I've used with it. By the numbers there is enough Current and Voltage to drive the LCD-2, but it may not be the best piece of gear quality wise.

‘Absolutely not’ is quite a strong statement George. Don’t perpetuate myths please.

I have tried the combo and felt they were not driven well. LCD series requires more power in my experience.

P.S. There are a ton of iterations of LCD2 around, I know how the ones that are most prelevalent in Romania behave, not going to say how all of them do, but the user asking is from Romania, so I have a strong feeling he'll find the same things eventually.

Thanks everyone.
Which amp would be better quality wise around the same price range? Ifi nano idsd?

Making a different approach, what iem or portable headphones i could try to avoid additional amping, have a significant upgrade compared to dt880 and have similar type of sound so x5iii abilities are fully used. How are senn ie800? Any other idea apprieciated.
By the way, on the road i use sony's mdr-1000x, they have great noise cancellation but sound does not fulfill my needs even though it is still good.

iDSD Micro Black Label. I'm not sure about iDSD Nano, haven't tried it with LCD-2.

As for other headphones: Ultrasone Signature DJ, Signature Studio, Signature Pro, Audeze EL8 series, Sennheiser HD600, Maybe Meze 99C, and even some Beyerdynamic models might be good without a lot of external amplification.

 

[MinnieOne]

Foobar2000, any other users? I've been having a lot of trouble with it since the last FW release. Usually after adding new songs it will often lose all the music and have to be rebooted and reindexed, etc. to get it to find the SD cards and reset. Never happened before.

 

[KopaneDePooj]

I tried senn momentum, over ear version. Isolation is weak but most importantly sound is not for my tastes, too thin.

Are you sure they sealed well on your ears? Normally, with a good seal Momentum 2 is anything but "thin". I use them on the go with the X5. To me they sound just a bit too forward in the mids around 2K, otherwise good, full-bodied sound.

 

[LightBlue77]

I couldn't use them on the bus, not even outside, to much humming and street noise, but the sound has to much mids as you say. I like how dt880 sounds with some bass up by eq, i feel it might benefit from amping and after all i read here i would be happy to have similar quality with something portable.

 

[Brooko]

Of course I tried the pairing, otherwise I wouldn't comment.

I wasn't happy with the results, like with E12 AMP.

You weren’t asked about the E12 - you commented about the A5. And you stated “absolutely” the A5 could not drive the LCD2. As the numbers show, and others also state, the A5 can quite easily drive an LCD2 (and that’s all models of it). Just because you may not have liked the pairing does not mean it can’t be driven by the A5.

What I find is pretty weird is the fact that the A5 is essentially very transparent, so what you’re hearing is an LCD2 with no added colouration. If you didn’t like the combo, you simply must not like the LCD2. Again your preference does not matter when talking about actual ability to drive a headphone. The question was whether or not the A5 had the power output to drive it. The correct answer is “absolutely yes”.

I’d suggest going back and trying again, and comparing with another neutral amp. You might want to then retract your original statement.

 

[x RELIC x]

I have tried the combo and felt they were not driven well. LCD series requires more power in my experience.

P.S. There are a ton of iterations of LCD2 around, I know how the ones that are most prelevalent in Romania behave, not going to say how all of them do, but the user asking is from Romania, so I have a strong feeling he'll find the same things eventually.

Driven well power wise, or bad synergy for your preference? Saying there is not enough power is grossly oversimplifying what’s going on and it’s misleading.

Spoiler: please read George

Like Paul very accurately pointed out (with facts) the LCD-2 is not as ‘hard’ to drive as many people think. Most headphones don’t require copious amounts of power but the thing that most jump on is power when they don’t like the implementation/sound/tuning/synergy of gear. Let’s be honest, the A5 is a cost effective portable amp but it does have far and away much more power than most would ever need for most headphones (including the LCD-2), unless they are clinically deaf.

The debate here is simply stating accurately what is going on behind the scenes. THD+N, slew rate, power supply, stereo separation, crosstalk, etc. have a lot more to do with the sound than just the power output. I suggest you liberate yourself by looking at the real world numbers (not just marketing or forums) regarding the math and physics behind what it takes to actually power the vast majority of headphones (Voltage and Current).

I read over and over and over again about how there isn’t enough power output but the majority of people don’t connect the dots that unless using maximum volume the max power spec is useless and never comes in to play. If using an amp below 80% volume the chances are that one will never bottom out an amp with distortion. It’s quite simple really... power=volume, implementation=quality, and tuning=preference/synergy. Power output alone does not equal quality once there is enough (with a little headroom) yet it’s all people seem to talk about and it’s misleading. There are terrible sounding powerful amps and there are great sounding relatively weak amps.

My apologies for the off-topic post.

 

[superuser1]

I am sad to let me X5 III go. My first android DAP, it was great till it lasted!

 

[Dobrescu George]

Driven well power wise, or bad synergy for your preference? Saying there is not enough power is grossly oversimplifying what’s going on and it’s misleading.

Spoiler: please read George

Like Paul very accurately pointed out (with facts) the LCD-2 is not as ‘hard’ to drive as many people think. Most headphones don’t require copious amounts of power but the thing that most jump on is power when they don’t like the implementation/sound/tuning/synergy of gear. Let’s be honest, the A5 is a cost effective portable amp but it does have far and away much more power than most would ever need for most headphones (including the LCD-2), unless they are clinically deaf.

The debate here is simply stating accurately what is going on behind the scenes. THD+N, slew rate, power supply, stereo separation, crosstalk, etc. have a lot more to do with the sound than just the power output. I suggest you liberate yourself by looking at the real world numbers (not just marketing or forums) regarding the math and physics behind what it takes to actually power the vast majority of headphones (Voltage and Current).

I read over and over and over again about how there isn’t enough power output but the majority of people don’t connect the dots that unless using maximum volume the max power spec is useless and never comes in to play. If using an amp below 80% volume the chances are that one will never bottom out an amp with distortion. It’s quite simple really... power=volume, implementation=quality, and tuning=preference/synergy. Power output alone does not equal quality once there is enough (with a little headroom) yet it’s all people seem to talk about and it’s misleading. There are terrible sounding powerful amps and there are great sounding relatively weak amps.

My apologies for the off-topic post.

Hm... I am not sure if it is strictly about power then.

I'd take an A5 driving HD600, and I think that with pretty much every IEM and Headphone I like the synnergy better with X5-3 + A5, than X5-3 alone, but I think that besides iDSD BL, LCD Series headphones aren't made for portable usage. Simply put, the synnergy didn't work for me, and I actually tested a few combos for LCD-2 since it was an interesting headphone for me.

EL8C from Audeze can be driven well from an X7mkii in my experience, even from an X5ii, but not LCD2.

A5 was driving HD800S decently for example, but with LCD, the synnergy felt like it was being underpowered, and this is pretty much a thing everyone agreed about in Romania and among my friends. Of course, this could be subjective, but I am pretty sure that nobody who owns LCD-2 uses an A5 exclusively to drive them.

In here you can return any purchase within 14 days after buying it, so Romanians never learn to just live with something if they aren't fully satisfied, they just return most items if they aren't satisfied, this is why many audiophiles here have very specific setups for their tastes.

I am sad to let me X5 III go. My first android DAP, it was great till it lasted!

Don't be sad!

You should always be looking forward for the next best thing!

Speaking of which, are you going with X7mkii?

 

[superuser1]

Don't be sad!

You should always be looking forward for the next best thing!

Speaking of which, are you going with X7mkii?

Yeah ill get the X9mkII for the time being i am sporting the zx300

 

[x RELIC x]

So @Dobrescu George, what would you say powers them well? A Woo Audio WA8? That has 350mW max with a 45 Ohm load. Hmmm, many people say that portable amp is a desktop amp killer and it’s less than half the power output of the A5. The truth is that it’s tuned warm so headphones feel more full when hooked up to it.

What about the Lotoo Paw Gold Diana edition? That DAP has a max power output of 500mW with a 32 Ohm load and is proudly marketed as ‘fine tuned for more demanding high-end headphones such as Abyss (AB-1266)’, which is much more difficult to drive than the LCD-2. Sorry, but the A5 has plenty of output power for the LCD-2 with 800mW in to a 32 Ohm load and max 250mA of Current delivery.

Not trying to pick on you but it gets tiring to read that an amp’s max output power is the thing that’s repetitively used as a benchmark for quality. The fact is that it’s likely one of the least contributing factors of sound quality for the majority of full sized headphones (planar and dynamic) in today’s audio landscape, unless the amp has really low power output like the ALO Rx IEM edition (28mW output with a 2Vrms Input) but the Rx is built specifically for sensitive IEMs.

 

[Dobrescu George]

So @Dobrescu George, what would you say powers them well? A Woo Audio WA8? That has 350mW max with a 45 Ohm load. Hmmm, many people say that portable amp is a desktop amp killer and it’s less than half the power output of the A5. The truth is that it’s tuned warm so headphones feel more full when hooked up to it.

What about the Lotoo Paw Gold Diana edition? That DAP has a max power output of 500mW with a 32 Ohm load and is proudly marketed as ‘fine tuned for more demanding high-end headphones such as Abyss (AB-1266)’, which is much more difficult to drive than the LCD-2. Sorry, but the A5 has plenty of output power for the LCD-2 with 800mW in to a 32 Ohm load and max 250mA of Current delivery.

Not trying to pick on you but it gets tiring to read that an amp’s max output power is the thing that’s repetitively used as a benchmark for quality. The fact is that it’s likely one of the least contributing factors of sound quality for the majority of full sized headphones (planar and dynamic) in today’s audio landscape, unless the amp has really low power output like the ALO Rx IEM edition (28mW output with a 2Vrms Input) but the Rx is built specifically for sensitive IEMs.

Ironically, I didn't really like WA8 either, had some tube typical sound that I dislike - might have been the tubes installed, but it had something that wasn't for me. I prefer cleaner sound. Soimething HPA-3B would gladly to the job without costing you a fortune, A5 just didn't do the same job for me. Maybe it just happens that HPA-3B has more power and I associated this as the main reason for it driving LCD-02 better, but either way, it did.

Never heard LPG DAPs actually, so will not speak about them, no idea how that sounds. Nobody in Romania has one.

Again, I think that A5 is brilliant for portable usage, and it should do a mighty good job at driving anything that is portable, but I don't think that HD800S or LCD-2 are portable. iDSD BL does a mighty job at driving either for a portable device, but it is quite a bit larger than A5.

 

[Brooko]

George

The main point is that when someone asked, you stated that the A5 "absolutely" could not drive the headphone. All Relic and I are trying to do is show that what you're saying is simply not true. It has more than enough power (I actually quite like it with my HD800S too - preference ). My rule of thumb is to make sure of what I'm stating before hitting enter (the specs were 2 minutes to look up). Preference is very subjective. But what you quoted in reply had no basis in fact. You need to be really careful about that - especially as a reviewer. You should hold yourself to a higher standard (IMO of course). And if I don't know something - I wait for someone who has better knowledge to answer.