[Rob49]

The whole audio chain should be around the same capability. Great headphones with a poor source will reveal the flaws. Poor headphones with a great source will limit the experience.

My guess is, and I've mentioned it to you before, that the X5ii is revealing to you why you shouldn't upres files, especially converting PCM to 1bit DSD (which is inferior in my opinion). Your Sony player I'm guessing is not revealing all the issues you have created from converting PCM to DSD.

What I would recommend is that you judge the X5ii sound quality based in native DSD if you must use DSD, or standard lossless CD rips. If you still don't like the quality then it's not the player for you. That's all I'll comment on because I'm not going to be dragged in to a format war.

.....and perhaps the Sony is revealing why I SHOULD upres the files ! ? Do you own one of the Sony DAP's ? You implied negativity about the ZX2 ? My Sony is revealing a wonderful sound. I can't say this of the X5ii, so far, and I'm playing back the same exact files. The Sony is far superior in sound quality.
If anyone can direct me to a site where I can download purchase a native DSD recording, it would be appreciated. I live in the U.K. so I don't think I can access HD Tracks ? I would & don't expect it to sound anything less than amazing ?
I respect your opinion, but nothing will change my opinion on the fact that I like & enjoy what I hear in the converted rips on the Sony.  

 

[DDDamian]

  Folks,
 
I have an X5 that I run through a Lyr2 and a pair of HE-400i phones.  I was thinking that I might upgrade to the X5ii because the controller wheel is a bit of a fail on the origin one, and I thought I might get an upgrade in sound from the newer player.
 
However, from reading the reviews, it seems it is not really sonically an improvement over the X5, so I thought maybe I might be better served by keeping the original X5 and adding in a better DAC like the Bifrost Uber into my stack.
 
Can anyone make a comparison of the sonic improvements by going to a dedicated DAC like the Bifrost over the internal DAC in the X5, or moving up to the X5ii?
 
Thanks,
 
 
---Michael

I honestly found only minor improvements from my dedicated DAC (Teac UD-501) vs the DAC in the Fiio's X5/X5ii. I mean they were there, but not very significant compared to the changes the amp or especially headphones made. You might be best served by sharing what you're not liking about your setup now and getting recommendations for specific improvements.

 

[Mark2010]

The detail is there on the X5, but it's lacking "feeling", almost artificial.  

 
Sorry just to be clear are you talking about the X5 or the X5 II ?

 

[Brooko]

Hi again Rob
 
Pleased you were able to find the issues with your files. I would have been surprised if it was the X5ii.
 
I also agree with Jazz / Relic - that it may be just that you're used to a warmer presentation with the Sony MDR-1R (nice headphone - but my impressions of it matched with Tyll's - not really my preferred signature)

Both compensated frequency response plots show a headphone with a strong warm tilt. The passive plot is a bit "n" shaped, and the active plot a bit "u" shaped relative to each other however. I really would have expected the passive mode to sound better than it does given the relatively straight, though tilted, frequency response. (The Philips X1 for example is similar, but sounds much, much better.) In active mode bass extension is improved, but it's at such a high level relative to the rest of the spectrum that it does get distracting while listening. For example, I was watching a movie where there were footfalls on a wooden floor, and the low frequency "thump" of the steps were remarkably loud and rather annoying.
Read more at http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/solid-sony-mdr-1r-mdr-1rbt-and-mdr-1nc-measurements#Gpq17l16HBT53hWm.99

 
Not sure about the NWZ F886 - but if it's your preference, you should go with what ticks your boxes.  The X5ii is pretty measurably flat - so what you're hearing should be what is actually in the chain.
 
Just in case you're interested in what native hi-res sounds like on the X5 - here are 3 tracks uploaded to my dropbox link.  They're from Quiles and Cloud, and were part of a free giveaway, so I'm pretty sure I can share.  I'll leave them up for a couple of days - then I'll need to delete them (otherwise my dropbox account will run out of room 

).  Just follow the link and download them. These are true native DSD - they were recorded straight to DSD (no conversion anywhere in the chain) 
 
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/zcg8wb2a5hio2dq/AADs6vlxbTgTp6NrisxTwXRza?dl=0

 

[DDDamian]

 
.....and perhaps the Sony is revealing why I SHOULD upres the files ! ? Do you own one of the Sony DAP's ? You implied negativity about the ZX2 ? My Sony is revealing a wonderful sound. I can't say this of the X5ii, so far, and I'm playing back the same exact files. The Sony is far superior in sound quality.
If anyone can direct me to a site where I can download purchase a native DSD recording, it would be appreciated. I live in the U.K. so I don't think I can access HD Tracks ? I would & don't expect it to sound anything less than amazing ?
I respect your opinion, but nothing will change my opinion on the fact that I like & enjoy what I hear in the converted rips on the Sony.  

I'm not sure how up-rez'ing the files really helps? Is it in the same way that tube-distortion helps for some? Or some filter magic?
 
It may just be that you prefer the sound of the Sony. If so, that's great. You can't really make one thing into another,

 

[Rob49]

 
Sorry just to be clear are you talking about the X5 or the X5 II ?

 


Sorry, it's the 2nd Gen.

 

[Rob49]

  Hi again Rob
 
Pleased you were able to find the issues with your files. I would have been surprised if it was the X5ii.
 
I also agree with Jazz / Relic - that it may be just that you're used to a warmer presentation with the Sony MDR-1R (nice headphone - but my impressions of it matched with Tyll's - not really my preferred signature)
 
Not sure about the NWZ F886 - but if it's your preference, you should go with what ticks your boxes.  The X5ii is pretty measurably flat - so what you're hearing should be what is actually in the chain.
 
Just in case you're interested in what native hi-res sounds like on the X5 - here are 3 tracks uploaded to my dropbox link.  They're from Quiles and Cloud, and were part of a free giveaway, so I'm pretty sure I can share.  I'll leave them up for a couple of days - then I'll need to delete them (otherwise my dropbox account will run out of room 

).  Just follow the link and download them. These are true native DSD - they were recorded straight to DSD (no conversion anywhere in the chain) 
 
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/zcg8wb2a5hio2dq/AADs6vlxbTgTp6NrisxTwXRza?dl=0

Thank you Brooko,
 
I very much appreciate that, and look forward to checking the native DSD files out.
 
My frustration is that other than the two different daps, I'm using the same headphones & amp (E12) Same converted files. So to me, that suggests it comes down to the sound signatures of the DAP's.
Actually, when I first purchased the Sony F886, I played flac rips, which I was more than pleased with. I then purchased JRiver, and noticed the option to convert. So I thought, "Oh lets try this".
Played around with the DSD options. I heard an immediate difference in sound quality, detail. It's not something I have imagined. ( Another forum member did say he found the same experience. )
Just to add, I converted to double DSD, which displayed as 176/24, on the Sony, but I wasn't so keen on this played through the DAP. ( but great connected to my Oppo player ) I KNOW, there's no extra detail added, but you can hear it better / more.
I'm sure that when I eventually get a native DSD file added to my X5, hopefully i'll have a different, more positive view ?
 
Perhaps the X5ii is too flat for me ? It is frustrating, because I have listened to a few albums, where I thought that there wasn't a obvious difference, between the playback on both of the DAP's, and then I've played another album, where I think there is. Surely, well produced albums should shine on either of these DAP's ??
 
PS I bought the Sony headphones, for the noise cancelling, which turned out to be awful !!

 

[DDDamian]

Converting a RedBook FLAC to double-DSD (5.6MHz) is unlikely to add anything but noise. In fact converting anything to anything is unlikely to add anything but noise. Sometimes noise can be a good thing (colouration added by tubes for example) or like a sharpness filter can sometimes improve a grainy image, but that's case-by-case.
 
Maybe you're just running into synergy? Not only between components, but also one recording can sound great through one chain and not so great through another, and vice-versa with another recording?

 

[Rob49]

   
 
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/zcg8wb2a5hio2dq/AADs6vlxbTgTp6NrisxTwXRza?dl=0

Looks like I have to set up a Dropbox account to download them ? It's late here, so i'll look again tomorrow. Thanks again.

 

[mjm6]

Damien,
 
OK, that is reasonable... I find the sound to be very good overall, and don't really have any complaints, but I figured that going to a dedicated DAC may improve overall imaging and provide a bit more of that sense of flow and overall presentation that makes you get lost in the music... just an aural upgrade.
 
I got into the mindset that I was about to spend $350 on a new X5, and maybe it might be better spent on a better DAC instead (or for that matter a better amp, I guess, but I think the Lyr2 is pretty great for the price).
 
 
---Michael

 

[DDDamian]

  Damien,
 
OK, that is reasonable... I find the sound to be very good overall, and don't really have any complaints, but I figured that going to a dedicated DAC may improve overall imaging and provide a bit more of that sense of flow and overall presentation that makes you get lost in the music... just an aural upgrade.
 
I got into the mindset that I was about to spend $350 on a new X5, and maybe it might be better spent on a better DAC instead (or for that matter a better amp, I guess, but I think the Lyr2 is pretty great for the price).
 
 
---Michael

The Lyr2 has a lot of friends - I think your chain is probably fine there. There's nothing wrong with either the X5 or X5ii as a DAC. When you get into comparing DACs it gets much harder than comparing cans or amps - the differences are much more subtle (unless they're completely assed lol). You will find improvements, whether they are to your liking or worth the bucks is so much harder to define. Recommending one is that much harder without real detail.
 
I've got to think that the X5/Lyr2 is a pretty darn good combo. I'm not sure what headphones you have, but changes there are going to be more pronounced (and possibly cheaper) than walking up the DAC price ladder.
 
If you're happy with your current cans, your amp is very sound. Go for the Bifrost or similar then. The X5ii is a bit brighter and a bit more resolving with slightly more separation and air, but we're talking (IMO) fairly minor differences.
 
Edit: sorry, I see you have the HE-400i. You may be looking for something a bit brighter and tighter then. If so, the Bifrost would be a plus. I'm guessing the slightly warmer X5/Lyr2 combo might be a tougher match for the smoother 400i. One thing I would recommend first though would be reading through the Lyr2 tube-rolling threads. Bang for your buck probably the better upgrade as many find the stock tubes just a bit smooth and less-detailed than other tubes available.

 

[514077]

I thought there was an HDTracks UK outlet...which also blocks Canuks from downloading their favourite hi-rez releases.
Try HDT in the UK.

 

[Brooko]

  Looks like I have to set up a Dropbox account to download them ? It's late here, so i'll look again tomorrow. Thanks again.

 
No - when you see the pop-up, just click the cross in the upper right of the pop-up box to close it.  Then back on the main screen in the upper right click on the blue button, and choose download as .zip.

 

[Brooko]

Thank you Brooko,
I very much appreciate that, and look forward to checking the native DSD files out.

 
No problem - just let me know when you've downloaded them so I can remove them from my account
 
Quote:

  My frustration is that other than the two different daps, I'm using the same headphones & amp (E12) Same converted files. So to me, that suggests it comes down to the sound signatures of the DAP's.
Actually, when I first purchased the Sony F886, I played flac rips, which I was more than pleased with. I then purchased JRiver, and noticed the option to convert. So I thought, "Oh lets try this".
Played around with the DSD options. I heard an immediate difference in sound quality, detail. It's not something I have imagined. ( Another forum member did say he found the same experience. )
Just to add, I converted to double DSD, which displayed as 176/24, on the Sony, but I wasn't so keen on this played through the DAP. ( but great connected to my Oppo player ) I KNOW, there's no extra detail added, but you can hear it better / more.
I'm sure that when I eventually get a native DSD file added to my X5, hopefully i'll have a different, more positive view ?

 
Could be the implementation of the DAC.  In my experience the only way to do a true comparison is use same files, same DAC's, same headphones, volume matched to within 0.1 dB, and a switching box with someone else at the controls.  They do the switching.  You can't see what is happening.  Often perceived differences disappear.  All that matters now though is that in sighted tests you don't prefer the X5ii.
 
My advice would be to use the X5ii exclusively (no comparisons with other players) for a week.  This gives a chance for you to get used to any change in signature, and also for device burn-in (if you believe in that). At the end of a week, go back and compare again.  If you still don't like the X5ii - sell it and grab that other Sony you were considering. The most important thing is that you're happy with your audio chain.  It doesn't matter at all what we think 

 
Quote:

 
Perhaps the X5ii is too flat for me ? It is frustrating, because I have listened to a few albums, where I thought that there wasn't a obvious difference, between the playback on both of the DAP's, and then I've played another album, where I think there is. Surely, well produced albums should shine on either of these DAP's ??

 
Could be - but again (in my experience anyway) sometimes you need to give yourself a chance to get used to a signature exclusively.  It's why (when I'm reviewing gear), I keep my chain constant, and only change is the new item I'm reviewing.  I then don't do any comparisons until the end of the review - once my brain has already learnt to cope with the new signature.  New gear, and constant flicking backwards and forwards from the start is usually a recipe for disaster.  YMMV. And then after all of that it could ultimately come down to preference.  And when that comes into account - all that matters is your opinion.  But for the sake of opinion from another side - for me, the X5ii does shine with well produced albums. In fact if I didn't have the iDSD or NFB-12, I'd happily use it as part of my desktop set-up.
 
Quote:

 
PS I bought the Sony headphones, for the noise cancelling, which turned out to be awful !!

 
I hear you.  If you're ever looking for something for travel (ie aircraft, trains etc), the Bose QC25 are amazing.  If you get a chance to demo them - you should.  Expensive, but for someone who travels a lot, worth every cent IMO.

 

[hakushondaimao]

  Another review up: http://www.head-fi.org/products/fiio-x5-2nd-gen-premium-hi-res-dap/reviews/13773
 
Thanks to Fiio for the opportunity to review this unit. And best of all I get to go read all the other reviews!
 
Spoiler: I bought one 

Finally got to read all the reviews, huh? That is some serious self control you displayed there...