[UgetWhatUpayFor]

bowei006, thank you for the sound insight. I had thought that having a high-end front end mated to a MP3 input might be like having a high-horsepower engine mated to a junky transmission.
I do plan to only use wav files.  I only like uncompressed, because I want the absolute best quality format.  I have never been a fan of MP3, and I have no MP3s in my collection.
 
Q1: Is it still pointless to compare wav file quality with CD?

Q2: Is there a higher quality format than wav that approached CD quality?

Q3: I wonder if the old RCA Right and Left analog inputs would be far superior to the standard MP3 inputs we find today?
 

I wish a manufacturer would produce a high-end analog input for car stereos.
 
It seems that we have great technology on the digital side, but analog quality has been sacrificed in recent years.
 

 

[bowei006]

Quote:

bowei006, thank you for the sound insight. I had thought that having a high-end front end mated to a MP3 input might be like having a high-horsepower engine mated to a junky transmission.
I do plan to only use wav files.  I only like uncompressed, because I want the absolute best quality format.  I have never been a fan of MP3, and I have no MP3s in my collection.
 
Q1: Is it still pointless to compare wav file quality with CD?

Q2: Is there a higher quality format than wav that approached CD quality?

Q3: I wonder if the old RCA Right and Left analog inputs would be far superior to the standard MP3 inputs we find today?
 

I wish a manufacturer would produce a high-end analog input for car stereos.
 
It seems that we have great technology on the digital side, but analog quality has been sacrificed in recent years.
 

No, its more like using the best fluid gasoline, coolant, or anything liquid that goes in a car and using that in a stock 1950's VW Beetle. The difference is there sure, but give any old person a drive with it and they wouldn't know you spent $40,000 on the liquid inside.
 
The input method of the car, its audio interface and lastly the speakers in the car are the hugest things setting you back right now.
 
There is no audible difference between WAV and FLAC if both are done correctly(rarely does somethign mess up).
 
IT is pointless yes, as the medium you are using to play back the files will have a bigger impact on you hearing something than the formats themselves. For our purposes, the two formats are practically the same and unable to be heard apart.
 
Somewhat SACD's, and new audio formats with uber high formats used in Blu Ray's and what not will be a higher quality format. But for stereo purposes, DSD's and SACD formats should be the top of the line.
 
There is no difference. RCA L and R analog inputs are the same exact thing as the TS 3.5mm analog input. The only reason you think they are superior is that most superior products use the RCA L and R's. TS 3.5mm analog is just a more smaller input method. What the inputs lead to in the interface is what matters and the quality of it.
 
There are a lot of aftermarket audio stuff for cars. It is not economical for a car company to manufactuer a true audiophile car that only the uber rich and very few audiophiles would want.

 

[Makiah S]

So... how dark and warm is the Fiio X3, compared to the hifiman hm 601, which one has better Highs and bass and which has the thinnest mids... I'm strongly reconsidering the Mad Dogs. Amp wise I'm pretty sold on the C5. Reviews are saying it's got excellent sound stage and it's got a nice treble response... just the DAP is the issue
 
Still the HP Sound Magic 100 is another good option. And reading over Amazons Return policy... it seems simple enough. I might actually try those here soon... 

 

[sbradley02]

Quote:

So... how dark and warm is the Fiio X3, compared to the hifiman hm 601, which one has better Highs and bass and which has the thinnest mids... I'm strongly reconsidering the Mad Dogs. Amp wise I'm pretty sold on the C5. Reviews are saying it's got excellent sound stage and it's got a nice treble response... just the DAP is the issue
 
Still the HP Sound Magic 100 is another good option. And reading over Amazons Return policy... it seems simple enough. I might actually try those here soon... 

Also check out the Beyerdynamic Custom One Pro
 
I always recommend that people try out a device before deciding on its sonic character. It is very dependent on what you are driving. Calling the Fiio warmer than the Hifiman seems odd to me since the X3 is ruler flat and the Hifiman is 5dB down at 20KHz which is quite a bit of attenuation and should be very noticeable.
I have not listened to either though (I have an X3 on order).

 

[UgetWhatUpayFor]

bowei006, It seems that these Digital Audio Players are only good to use as a walkman(directly into headphones) or outputting digitally to an audiophile home system.
 
I thought the whole point of portable music was to bring your tunes with you to play in a friends car or on a boat?
 
Currently, It is problematic for me to switch CDs on the boat or while driving a car, even if I’m the passenger.  On the boat, it means leaving the steering wheel to venture into the cabin to change disks.
 
I believe my 2010 Lincoln will play audio placed onto a DVD which will give me room for wav files.  Music I have from video concerts span more than one CD, so perhaps DVD is a solution.  However not everyones car or boat can play DVD audio, the player won’t recognize DVDs.
 
So that has me looking to a Digital Audio Player as the solution for hands free long play.  I want to play entire concerts and albums, then have the player progress to the next album to keep people enetertained without interruption.
 
I would like to have the best audio output possible from a portable source, however it seems that the standard limitations available with MP3 or headphone input on car radios is destroying this whole concept from my perspective.
 
Outside of portable music in vehicles, I may use the Digital Audio Player for other things, but to a lesser degree.
 
I have some intentions to use a digital audio player to connect with a high-end DAC like the Crane Song HEDD, ( Harmonically Enhanced Digital Device) and possible a Tube Headphone amp.

 

[bowei006]

Quote:

bowei006, It seems that these Digital Audio Players are only good to use as a walkman(directly into headphones) or outputting digitally to an audiophile home system.
 
I thought the whole point of portable music was to bring your tunes with you to play in a friends car or on a boat?
 
Currently, It is problematic for me to switch CDs on the boat or while driving a car, even if I’m the passenger.  On the boat, it means leaving the steering wheel to venture into the cabin to change disks.
 
I believe my 2010 Lincoln will play audio placed onto a DVD which will give me room for wav files.  Music I have from video concerts span more than one CD, so perhaps DVD is a solution.  However not everyones car or boat can play DVD audio, the player won’t recognize DVDs.
 
So that has me looking to a Digital Audio Player as the solution for hands free long play.  I want to play entire concerts and albums, then have the player progress to the next album to keep people enetertained without interruption.
 
I would like to have the best audio output possible from a portable source, however it seems that the standard limitations available with MP3 or headphone input on car radios is destroying this whole concept from my perspective.
 
Outside of portable music in vehicles, I may use the Digital Audio Player for other things, but to a lesser degree.
 
I have some intentions to use a digital audio player to connect with a high-end DAC like the Crane Song HEDD, ( Harmonically Enhanced Digital Device) and possible a Tube Headphone amp.

A better word to call them would be PMP. Portable Music Player. And yes, this portable 'mp3 player' is best connecting directly to headphones and in the X3's case, be used as a transport.
 
Yes it was, you can do that! Use the 3.5mm input on your car or boat. You never asked that question, you only asked about quality. 3.5mm inputs on consumer devices are generally of low quality, but they will still work well. If you have CD's of all your tunes, yeah, better quality. But using a pmp as one is really just it.
 
The X3 allows you to make a huge big playlist. Or just go to 'play all' and keep it on shuffle.
 
It's not destroying it. Most will not notice the slight audible noise, distortion that these inputs will add(not all inputs have these problems, but most consumer grade ones do). Also keep in mind that you will not be able to tell WAV from MP3 on most consumer audio equipment installed on boats and cars if one can even tell it apart on high grade equipment. 

 

[UgetWhatUpayFor]

bowei006 replied: 3.5mm inputs on consumer devices are generally of low quality, but they will still work well. If you have CD's of all your tunes, yeah, better quality. But using a pmp as one is really just it.
 
bowei006  I really do enjoy your great insight, as this has been an eye opener.  Ok, so here are my other questions…
 
Q1: So does that mean that that a cheap Sandisk MP3 player is going to produce the same sound quality as the X3 by the time it comes out my car speakers? 
 
Q2: Should I just  conclude that there is no quality advantage of the X3 over a Sandisk for my intended application, connecting via MP3/Headphone input?
 
Q3: So the only slight advantage the X3 has is the ability to play uncompressed wav files?
 
Q4: Perhaps since I plan to only use wav files, the X3 is still the better choice as opposed to cheap unit, what are your thoughts on this?
 
I am thinking my only salvation is the digital input on my vehicles might make it worth getting the X3, so I can input digital audio into the car stereo, but then I am relying on Motorcraft electronics.
 
Q5 although you mentioned most OEM automotive DAC should be adequate, will the automotive DAC really  ever compare to something like a Burr Brown DAC?
 

 

[bowei006]

Quote:

bowei006 replied: 3.5mm inputs on consumer devices are generally of low quality, but they will still work well. If you have CD's of all your tunes, yeah, better quality. But using a pmp as one is really just it.
 
bowei006  I really do enjoy your great insight, as this has been an eye opener.  Ok, so here are my other questions…
 
Q1: So does that mean that that a cheap Sandisk MP3 player is going to produce the same sound quality as the X3 by the time it comes out my car speakers? 
 
Q2: Should I just  conclude that there is no quality advantage of the X3 over a Sandisk for my intended application, connecting via MP3/Headphone input?
 
Q3: So the only slight advantage the X3 has is the ability to play uncompressed wav files?
 
Q4: Perhaps since I plan to only use wav files, the X3 is still the better choice as opposed to cheap unit, what are your thoughts on this?
 
I am thinking my only salvation is the digital input on my vehicles might make it worth getting the X3, so I can input digital audio into the car stereo, but then I am relying on Motorcraft electronics.
 
Q5 although you mentioned most OEM automotive DAC should be adequate, will the automotive DAC really  ever compare to something like a Burr Brown DAC?
 

I'm going to go off on a limb here and use what I know about how bad most car speakers sound and say yes. Some Sandisk players have line out and some don't. X3 has line out. This allows for the inner amp fo the PMP to be bypassed or not. On high end setups, this is pretty crucial, and having a good line out on that is also important. For this, you probably would be hard pressed to tell a difference on the ordrinary speakers on regular boats and cars.
 
For your purpose, you should conclude that if we go by how bad the average speaker on a boat or car is so yes.
 
The X3 has many advantages to the SanDisk. However these advantages are only visible if you use it with high end equipment, can hear the difference, and will take advantage of its file format supports and power. X3 can power some harder to drive headphones.
 
If the Sandisk can play FLAC/ALAC/WAV then for your purpose, that is fine. For your purpose, you will not be able to tell the difference between the AAC 256kbps and WAV of the same format, especially on crap speakers in cars and boats. 
 
A lot of DAC's used in cars are by T.I which owns Burr Brown. Some Burr Brown DAC's are actually even labeled as T.I DAC's. It's the series, and quality of the DAC that actually matters. They will not compare to it(It's a car, they never intended it for your purpose) but unless you plan to upgrade the entire audio interface in the car including speakers, using a cheap sandisk with the ability for external storage(micro SD) and AAC files will suit your purpose.
 
Please stop with the WAV is superior to everything. The mass majority can not tell the difference between properly encoded WAV and 256kbps or even 200-220kbps V-0 LAME MP3 of the same WAV file played on expensive equipment. 

 

[UgetWhatUpayFor]

Ok bowei006 thanks for the good info.
 
The X3 might be my very first player.  If I was going to go with a low cost unit, seems that the X3 has a decent price.  The cost is low enough where I don’t have to be concerned with party goers spilling beer on it or bumbing it on the boat.  
 
I do like the X3's Low-Level outputs and digital outputs because I like flexibility for the future in the event someday I might connect to an audiophile system or a high-end pre-amplifier in a car.
 
I now understand line-out a bit better now with you previous explanation.
 
How can I find out if the HM-901 has digital outputs or line-out outputs?  The spec section is still blank on the web site. 
 
Aside from sound quality, I wonder if the menu functionality of the X3 or the HM-901 makes it worth the extra cost?
 
I also do not know if a car stereo's controls can access the player’s files remotely.  On the boat there is a hard-wired controller mounted by the steering wheel, it connects to the car stereo in the cabin. It has the options for CD, Radio and MP3 input, however my question is, can data be transmitted, and or accessed through a 3.5mm headphone jack?  Or is it only possible to access the player's data via a digital coaxial cabel or USB cable? This is another reason why I might like the various outputs of the X3. (one of my cars has a usb connection to the radio)

 

[davidsh]

Quote:

bowei006 replied: 3.5mm inputs on consumer devices are generally of low quality, but they will still work well. If you have CD's of all your tunes, yeah, better quality. But using a pmp as one is really just it.
 
bowei006  I really do enjoy your great insight, as this has been an eye opener.  Ok, so here are my other questions…
 
Q1: So does that mean that that a cheap Sandisk MP3 player is going to produce the same sound quality as the X3 by the time it comes out my car speakers? 
 
Q2: Should I just  conclude that there is no quality advantage of the X3 over a Sandisk for my intended application, connecting via MP3/Headphone input?
 
Q3: So the only slight advantage the X3 has is the ability to play uncompressed wav files?
 
Q4: Perhaps since I plan to only use wav files, the X3 is still the better choice as opposed to cheap unit, what are your thoughts on this?
 
I am thinking my only salvation is the digital input on my vehicles might make it worth getting the X3, so I can input digital audio into the car stereo, but then I am relying on Motorcraft electronics.
 
Q5 although you mentioned most OEM automotive DAC should be adequate, will the automotive DAC really  ever compare to something like a Burr Brown DAC?
 

My take on it: The x3 will offer a higher sound quality than the cd player on a boat/car. But once you go line-in, it might not matter anyways as discussed earlier. You will most likely not be able to tell a sandisk from a high quality DAP on the speaker systems you are refering to. You'd be better off with an ipod if you really like to spend some money on a user friendly solution. Difference in sound quality will most likely be negligible.
If you use decent mp3 files or better (above 256 kbit/s, not downloaded illegally or via youtube), you should be set. WAV/FLAC/Lossless in general would probably not yield better sound quality, but for the peace of mind, why not just use lossless if you have the hard disk space for it...

In short: For your purpose, I doubt X3 loaded with WAV files will be better than an ipod classic with decent quality mp3 files. If better, the difference will be barely noticeable if at all.
 
 
Based on my earlier question regarding the UI clunkyness: 
I mostly listen to 2-6 songs from an album at a time, sometimes the whole album. I barely, if ever, use shuffle-ish features for playlists, let alone playlists at all actually, but I like to be able to listen to tracks of an album in random order.. Just for the refreshing effect 

. Will the x3 function for my purpose??

 

[davidsh]

Quote:

I also do not know if a car stereo's controls can access the player’s files remotely.  On the boat there is a hard-wired controller mounted by the steering wheel, it connects to the car stereo in the cabin. It has the options for CD, Radio and MP3 input, however my question is, can data be transmitted, and or accessed through a 3.5mm headphone jack?  Or is it only possible to access the player's data via a digital coaxial cabel or USB cable? This is another reason why I might like the various outputs of the X3. (one of my cars has a usb connection to the radio)

For this to be done, you need to be connected to whatever DAP digitally. Be that via usb, coax or bluetooth, whatever.
 
I think the hm-901 only has digital out when connected to the docking station that will cost 400$ extra. Not sure, maybe you can get digital out from the usb as well.
It does have line out.

 

[bowei006]

Quote:

Ok bowei006 thanks for the good info.
 
The X3 might be my very first player.  If I was going to go with a low cost unit, seems that the X3 has a decent price.  The cost is low enough where I don’t have to be concerned with party goers spilling beer on it or bumbing it on the boat.  
 
I do like the X3's Low-Level outputs and digital outputs because I like flexibility for the future in the event someday I might connect to an audiophile system or a high-end pre-amplifier in a car.
 
I now understand line-out a bit better now with you previous explanation.
 
How can I find out if the HM-901 has digital outputs or line-out outputs?  The spec section is still blank on the web site. 
 
Aside from sound quality, I wonder if the menu functionality of the X3 or the HM-901 makes it worth the extra cost?
 
I also do not know if a car stereo's controls can access the player’s files remotely.  On the boat there is a hard-wired controller mounted by the steering wheel, it connects to the car stereo in the cabin. It has the options for CD, Radio and MP3 input, however my question is, can data be transmitted, and or accessed through a 3.5mm headphone jack?  Or is it only possible to access the player's data via a digital coaxial cabel or USB cable? This is another reason why I might like the various outputs of the X3. (one of my cars has a usb connection to the radio)

The spec sheet of the 901 should tell you. If you can't tell, ask the 901 thread.
 
No, a car's controls can not access or control the X3. USB will probably not work with the X3, but you can try
Quote:

 
 
 
Based on my earlier question regarding the UI clunkyness: 
I mostly listen to 2-6 songs from an album at a time, sometimes the whole album. I barely, if ever, use shuffle-ish features for playlists, let alone playlists at all actually, but I like to be able to listen to tracks of an album in random order.. Just for the refreshing effect 

. Will the x3 function for my purpose??

From the sounds of it. Yes

 

[UgetWhatUpayFor]

[size=10pt][size=10pt]Ok bowei006, I do recognize now that wav has no superiority.[/size][/size]
[size=10pt] [/size]
[size=10pt][size=10pt]I may need to go FLAC anyways, because I read somewhere that wav files are more difficult to carry text data like song and artist’s names, but then I read elsewhere that it might be possible. It sounds like FLAC is more suited to text tags saved with the file.[/size][/size]
[size=10pt] [/size]
[size=10pt][size=10pt]I am thinking that my wav files may only display as a Track Number, and I might have trouble locating various albums located on the player when trying to view the contents of the player through the LCD screen on the car or boat stereo[/size][/size]
[size=10pt] [/size]
[size=10pt][size=10pt]Then again, I’m still unsure if the text data(Song names and Album) are able to travel through the 3.5mm headphone/analog cable.[/size][/size]
[size=10pt][size=10pt]Most of the questions I ask are probably widely known by you and your audiophile friends on this forum, but I'm learning a lot from your replies. [/size][/size]
[size=10pt] [/size]

 

[bowei006]

Quote:

[size=10pt][size=10pt]Ok bowei006, I do recognize now that wav has no superiority.[/size][/size]
[size=10pt] [/size]
[size=10pt][size=10pt]I may need to go FLAC anyways, because I read somewhere that wav files are more difficult to carry text data like song and artist’s names, but then I read elsewhere that it might be possible. It sounds like FLAC is more suited to text tags saved with the file.[/size][/size]
[size=10pt] [/size]
[size=10pt][size=10pt]I am thinking that my wav files may only display as a Track Number, and I might have trouble locating various albums located on the player when trying to view the contents of the player through the LCD screen on the car or boat stereo[/size][/size]
[size=10pt] [/size]
[size=10pt][size=10pt]Then again, I’m still unsure if the text data(Song names and Album) are able to travel through the 3.5mm headphone/analog cable.[/size][/size]
[size=10pt][size=10pt]Most of the questions I ask are probably widely known by you and your audiophile friends on this forum, but I'm learning a lot from your replies. [/size][/size]
[size=10pt] [/size]

It's superiority is in the studio, mastering and or for people who do audio as a guarantee of quality. After that, in terms of listening, FLAC and WAV are the same absolutely except that FLAC has smaller file size.
 
It's best not to use the X3 on the go while opperating a vehicle.
 
 

[size=10pt]Most of the questions I ask are probably widely known by you and your audiophile friends on this forum, but I'm learning a lot from your replies.[/size]
[size=10pt] [/size]

You would think this. But considering how many people talk about FLAC being uber awesome and some ridiculous audio setups people use or want to use, it makes me think that this isn't the case.

 

[davidsh]

Quote:

[size=10pt][size=10pt]Ok bowei006, I do recognize now that wav has no superiority.[/size][/size]
[size=10pt] [/size]
[size=10pt][size=10pt]I may need to go FLAC anyways, because I read somewhere that wav files are more difficult to carry text data like song and artist’s names, but then I read elsewhere that it might be possible. It sounds like FLAC is more suited to text tags saved with the file.[/size][/size]
[size=10pt] [/size]
[size=10pt][size=10pt]I am thinking that my wav files may only display as a Track Number, and I might have trouble locating various albums located on the player when trying to view the contents of the player through the LCD screen on the car or boat stereo[/size][/size]
[size=10pt] [/size]
[size=10pt][size=10pt]Then again, I’m still unsure if the text data(Song names and Album) are able to travel through the 3.5mm headphone/analog cable.[/size][/size][size=10pt][size=10pt][/size][/size]
[size=10pt][size=10pt]Most of the questions I ask are probably widely known by you and your audiophile friends on this forum, but I'm learning a lot from your replies. [/size][/size]
[size=10pt] [/size]

It isn't able to. Any info on songs, etc can only be transfered digitally. Analog is ONLY for sound signals to travel, nothing else.
 
Thx for the answer bowei. I'll probably get the x1 eventually. Hope they will fix gapless, though.