[Julius Decimus]

On some devices there is no difference, like Chord DACs, there i dont hear improvement when upsampling to DSD (and regular resampling just the sample rate doesnt have the same effect, must be output as DSD). On Fiio and AKM however, noticable difference. From there i think its dac chip related.

ESS DAC may or may not have improvement. I guess worth a try. I use Neutron music player on my phone to do the upsampling. On PC there is other software, but i dont use the Fiio on PC at all almost, so cant say what program can be used there. Overall Q5 s are excellent DACs. I think the device its worth it in terms of sound quality. Plus you have the Bluetooth if you ever need it.
The amp portion of the device is not the best though, keep this in mind (not powerful like A5 or E12, even with the optional amp modules you can get separately). But you have this covered with the external A5 and E12 amps. The line out of the Q5 s is also very good (my favorite part of this device), so you will not have problems connecting and using different amps in future as well.

 

[rar133]

Hi. I have a decision to make between the q5s and m11. I went through most of that thread trying to get answers here and there but i would like to post one main query and see the answers after over 1 year on the market:
My use case will be to power a pair or hifiman he400i and a bayerdynamic custom studio. Researched and calculated that both would be more than adequate to power them fine. I plan to use it as my primary usb dac for headphones (my powered monitors can plug into the MB on pc).
At home: pc to fiio q5s or m11 to atom amp to my cans
On the road : laptop to fiio to cans

Now my questions :
1. Have anyone had issues when using the lineout to a headphone amp. Q5 is 1.8vrms and m11 1.9vrms. Did it affect your results?

2. Is the USB dac mode stable on both to use as a standalone dac for PC? Especially with the m11

3. Has the charge mode been corrected through firmware so that i can protect the battery (i saw a post with a swollen battery)?

4. For users over 8 or 9 months, is your experience still the same? Or have you been plagued with bugs or issues? Or has unit died after a few months?

5. Apart from ldac, is the equalizer 'systemwide' on the units through BT? On laptop or PC, i use sonarworks as my hifiman are pretty crap to me otherwise. So if i wanted to tidal off my phone or m11 tidal, would i be able to eq a bit?

6. Many people have reported issues with otg or direct connection to phones, while i don't plan to use the physical link to phone, has the usb to pc been wonky or is it sensitive to slight movements? My fiio k3 is kinda touchy sometimes lol

7. Is there still the issue with soft power off on the q5s? A poster mentioned it could brick the device? Current is very wonky in my country, i got used to powering everything off. When i turn off, i want it to be off.

For my case would the q5s or m11 be better. The m11 is a dap so it is convenient to just lie in bed with it instead of pairing 2 devices or when I'm travelling, but I'm a bit scared because i would be primarily using it as a usb dac.

Please help me. My country is locked down and won't be getting ANY flights in for the foreseeable future. Fiio is my ONLY option to get locally and I'm very underwhelmed with my fiio k3 (tbh, my atom and bayerdynamic are both still on order and i won't receive for another 2 months because of lockdown)

Thank you

 

[Julius Decimus]

For my case would the q5s or m11 be better.

Well, generally it is most of the time better to get dac/amp combo than DAP. Reason for this is, it doesnt age like a dap would. I mean in terms of software updates, program support and the like (not that there is problem with m11, just overall). That is my opinion. And then you just use pc or phone as source. And something to consider also, daps with dedicated OS (not Android) are most of the time better at what they do as well.

Cant comment the points, as i dont have M11 and Q5s (have a q5) and i hope somebody will join later and answer you. But i can give you some advices on what to choose between the two. Based on my view.

I see you write for using the devices with PC at home and with laptop on the road. So ask yourself what you do more frequently. If you were to take the M11, will you use it as a source to play music, or you will still most of time prefer using the PC/laptop. If you will use the PC (which is more convinient i agree for home use) more often, then i would say you dont need DAP. The Q5s will the better choice. JDS Atom is far more powerful amp than Q5s or M11, no worries for any type headphones in future. You will hear improvement with it using the m11 or q5s as dac comparing to just your PC or laptop headphone output.

On other hand, if you never ever had any daps before, it might be worth considering getting one. Again, i dont think its better than PC or laptop in your case, but you know....with the time you may find it more convinient to play music from it than from PC. Can move around more easily and so.

For the charging, i hear you can disable usb charging on Q5s with Fiio s Android application, but you have to do it every time when you connect it thro usb (dont know for m11). So....solution to this would be to get the Fiio CL06 or ML06 cables (for usb C or micro usb), they disable charging anyway and you dont have to worry about it. They are very short tho...and its more for use with phone because of the cable lenght.

For the battery, if you use the device alot (which is by all means not a problem at all), after 2 years you will have to change it and doesnt matter how much you are trying to keep it safe. That counts for all electronic devices, not Fiio specific.

Havent heard any issues using line out to other amps. Which is what these devices do best in my opinion. My favorite part.

So yes, overall if you will still prefer using PC/laptop as source and playing the music, get a Q5s.

 

[rar133]

Well, generally it is most of the time better to get dac/amp combo than DAP. Reason for this is, it doesnt age like a dap would. I mean in terms of software updates, program support and the like (not that there is problem with m11, just overall). That is my opinion. And then you just use pc or phone as source. And something to consider also, daps with dedicated OS (not Android) are most of the time better at what they do as well.

Cant comment the points, as i dont have M11 and Q5s (have a q5) and i hope somebody will join later and answer you. But i can give you some advices on what to choose between the two. Based on my view.

I see you write for using the devices with PC at home and with laptop on the road. So ask yourself what you do more frequently. If you were to take the M11, will you use it as a source to play music, or you will still most of time prefer using the PC/laptop. If you will use the PC (which is more convinient i agree for home use) more often, then i would say you dont need DAP. The Q5s will the better choice. JDS Atom is far more powerful amp than Q5s or M11, no worries for any type headphones in future. You will hear improvement with it using the m11 or q5s as dac comparing to just your PC or laptop headphone output.

On other hand, if you never ever had any daps before, it might be worth considering getting one. Again, i dont think its better than PC or laptop in your case, but you know....with the time you may find it more convinient to play music from it than from PC. Can move around more easily and so.

For the charging, i hear you can disable usb charging on Q5s with Fiio s Android application, but you have to do it every time when you connect it thro usb (dont know for m11). So....solution to this would be to get the Fiio CL06 or ML06 cables (for usb C or micro usb), they disable charging anyway and you dont have to worry about it. They are very short tho...and its more for use with phone because of the cable lenght.

For the battery, if you use the device alot (which is by all means not a problem at all), after 2 years you will have to change it and doesnt matter how much you are trying to keep it safe. That counts for all electronic devices, not Fiio specific.

Havent heard any issues using line out to other amps. Which is what these devices do best in my opinion. My favorite part.

So yes, overall if you will still prefer using PC/laptop as source and playing the music, get a Q5s.

thanks mate!

yeah i think i'll go for the q5s. actually as a dac i use a fiio k3. it;s just underpowered for my hifiman. on the road actually means the laptop sitting on a desk at work or my gf's place. so basically just a dac. also i want the option of being powerful enough without the atom.

since you have a q5 which i guess is the same communication interface as the q5s through the fiio app, when i apply the eq on it, that would mean any BT signal in or even usb would be equalized, like streaming tidal through phone etc?

 

[Julius Decimus]

since you have a q5 which i guess is the same communication interface as the q5s through the fiio app, when i apply the eq on it, that would mean any BT signal in or even usb would be equalized, like streaming tidal through phone etc?

On Q5 works very strange the EQ. Its not systemwide, works only for music playing thro the Fiio app. And what is strange about it, the first 4 bands (31, 62, 125, 250hz) are not working at all. So i can EQ the middle tones and the treble, but not the bass. I guess its connected to the bass boost button and these frequencies are reserved for it.

Cant comment on the streaming services, as i dont use them. But i think on any music playing thro the Fiio app you can use EQ.

Q5 doesnt have Bluethooth 5 (only 4.2) and Ldac codec tho. It works well and no problem with pairing or range on my device. Q5/s works only as receiver. So you cant use it with Bluethooth headphones for example. Must be wired connection to headphones.

also i want the option of being powerful enough without the atom.

I am not sure about the Hifiman. For the Beyerdynamic (is 80ohms yes) will be fine. I have a DT770 80ohms, its ok with them. Cant get the volume level of JDS amp however, or Fiio E12, A5 and the like. Keep in mind. Overall is just OK, not great in amplification.

 

[Cevisi]

thanks mate!

yeah i think i'll go for the q5s. actually as a dac i use a fiio k3. it;s just underpowered for my hifiman. on the road actually means the laptop sitting on a desk at work or my gf's place. so basically just a dac. also i want the option of being powerful enough without the atom.

since you have a q5 which i guess is the same communication interface as the q5s through the fiio app, when i apply the eq on it, that would mean any BT signal in or even usb would be equalized, like streaming tidal through phone etc?

I think you have to go balanced for the hifiman

 

[rar133]

On Q5 works very strange the EQ. Its not systemwide, works only for music playing thro the Fiio app. And what is strange about it, the first 4 bands (31, 62, 125, 250hz) are not working at all. So i can EQ the middle tones and the treble, but not the bass. I guess its connected to the bass boost button and these frequencies are reserved for it.

Cant comment on the streaming services, as i dont use them. But i think on any music playing thro the Fiio app you can use EQ.

Q5 doesnt have Bluethooth 5 (only 4.2) and Ldac codec tho. It works well and no problem with pairing or range on my device. Q5/s works only as receiver. So you cant use it with Bluethooth headphones for example. Must be wired connection to headphones.




I am not sure about the Hifiman. For the Beyerdynamic (is 80ohms yes) will be fine. I have a DT770 80ohms, its ok with them. Cant get the volume level of JDS amp however, or Fiio E12, A5 and the like. Keep in mind. Overall is just OK, not great in amplification.

Well i think the q5s should do a far better job than the fiio K3 anyway. this would mostly be for mobile amplification convenience. i read here and there (actually on the he400i thread as we speak) about them requiring/ capable of handling a lot of power. anyway, this should suffice. on the asr forum, a member broke down the power output and requirements of the cans based on sensitivity/impedance. it should give me enough headroom on 35ohms. quoted from him:

Q5:
max. current = 132mA (0.132A)
max. voltage = 3V
optimal power impedance = 22 Ohm
max. output power in 22 Ohm = 3V x 0.132A = 0.396W (396mW) in 22 Ohm.
Below and above 22 Ohm the output power will thus always be less than the max. output power.

This means for both 35 Ohm and 80 Ohm you need the voltage limit formula as the impedance is above 22 Ohm
35 Ohm = 0.257W (257mW)
80 Ohm = 0.113W (113mW)

and on digizoid calculator i only need 160mw.


anyway i digress...

the lack of a systemwide eq is kinda troubling though. it's weird because i thought the fiio app had 2 eqs, one for the app and one for the devices (i had a btr3 but never really played around with them because my iems were flat and neutral enough for me).

my problem is the hifiman are lacking for me... the vocals are muffled and bass is lost. through sonarworks on my pc , its amazing as they apply a proper eq and i get to play with it.

hmmm ahhh fcuk it, i'm getting the q5s nonetheless.

 

[rar133]

I think you have to go balanced for the hifiman

yeah. i was on the verge of ordering hart cables (balanced with different interconnects for balanced and 1/4 inch) but then corona hit.

i'm in mauritius. getting anything by air is next to impossible. even my bayerdynamics and atom are stuck in some exchange somewhere. fiio is my ONLY option if i want power on single ended.
once the confinement is over, i will get the cable with a 4.4 connector for the q5s and the 1..4 inch for the atom. i would be sorted then lol

 

[Julius Decimus]

Well i think the q5s should do a far better job than the fiio K3 anyway. this would mostly be for mobile amplification convenience. i read here and there (actually on the he400i thread as we speak) about them requiring/ capable of handling a lot of power. anyway, this should suffice.

Yeah, well....where this really will shine is as you intended, use it as DAC for the Atom amp. Or any other amplifier. Because of the powerful line out, you may even get louder volume from your Fiio K3 (when you use them combined, line out from Q5s to K3) than the stock amplifier module that Q5s comes with (this just for comparison, you dont need to do that since you have the Atom amp.).

And also something else, i dont recommend you considering other amplifier modules, even with them you wont notice big change in volume.

For the balanced from the Q5s, yes. Its probably going to be needed for the Hifiman. The standart 3.5mm will get your headphones to listenable leves (just ok), but when you use the Atom amp, you will see its huge improvement in that regard.

 

[NJoyzAudio]

If there is interest as I've seen several comparisons on this thread earlier, but not too many since newer members have joined in.
So at the risk of being a little repetitive, posting my impressions of the Q5 vs Q5s and various FiiO AM3x amp combinations, all of which are my opinions only so your mileage will vary.

I own both the Q5 (with AM3A and AM3D) and an Q5s (With the AM3E and AM3D amps)
I've owned other amp/dac combos also but to keep this simple, will just review these 2 against each other.
I prefer to run these via a direct USB cable connection vs. Bluetooth as I think I hear a difference, so you won't see a comparison of Bluetooth connections here. I use it once in a while but prefer the direct cabling and passing just the digital O's and 1's for sound.
I choose traveling this way vs a DAP as the way Android sorts and presents music files just always drove me crazy, so using my PC, or other devices to just present the digital source to feed a DAC/AMP combo is just my preference.

I moved to the Q5s as Vs. the Q5 as it was smoother and more musical overall, but find with the IEM's I own (Shure SE846 and JH CIEM Roxanne's) as well as others I've borrowed (Noble K10 and Kahn) I have to use the higher gain setting Vs. the Q5 to get the overall sound I like vs. the Q5 (which sounds harsh with the high gain setting).

As far as amps/sound for both
On the Q5 there is a marked difference moving from the AM3A to the AM3E, and almost the same amount of sonic difference then going from the AM3E to the AM3D.
The AM3A to AM3E was huge. Much wider soundstage, better and clearer mids. Anyone who owns a Q5 and wondering if changing from the AM3A makes a difference all I can say is "yes".
Moving from the AM3E to the AM3D on the Q5 there was as notable of a change.
Most notably were the mids and highs. The mids were smoother, and the highs were a little clearer and seemed to have more sparkle. Soundstage also widened.
The Q5 with the dual AKM 4490EN DAC's always had great bass with lot of low end rumble, whether the bass boost was engaged or not.
With bass friendly IEM's like the SE846 and its low pass physical filter, you get a real subwoofer rumble and great clarity.

For the Q5s, it didn't make sense to try the AM3A on it, so I only tested the AM3E to the AM3D.
As noted above, moving to the High Gain setting seemed to open up all of the IEM's I tried. In the low setting, there was good sonics, but IMO there seemed to be a vail over highs and the sound overall seemed to suffer some presence. Moving to the high gain setting, everything just sounds right. Much clearer, and better separation of instruments across the soundstage.
With the AM3D there was better extension on the highs, and they were smoother, perhaps a touch wetter than the dry highs with less sparkle of the AM3E
but most notable were the mids. At first it tricks you as with the AM3E the mids are much more forward/in your face. It creates the illusion of having a wide soundstage as you can pick out specific instruments and the vocals are right up front.
Moving to the AM3D the mids are not quite as "in your face" but they are there, blending in nicely with the soundstage. Its not until you really listen that you start to hear things and can place where instruments and vocalist really are that you realize it does have a wider soundstage, and the sound is more natural and balanced vs the AM3E.
The bass on both with the Q5s and the newer AKM 4493 EQ DAC's are about the same. Maybe a little smoother in the mid bass with the AM3D. Nothing to be ashamed of, but in the area of bass, the Q5 seems to have a tad bit more slam, than the Q5s. Not much of a difference unless listening for specific bass/sub bass notes or rumble. Don't get me wrong the Q5s is still very enjoyable but if your a pure basshead, the older Q5 with the AM3E or AM3D amp might be for you. Else the Q5s is very pleasant and musical to listen to as it just seems to do things better across the board.

Overall which do I prefer?
The Q5s with the AM3D amp.
So much so it has replaced the Q5 for all of my travels (Pre Covid-19 I was on a plane about 25% of the month) as when you have that cigar smoking crying baby in the seat next to you, a good pair of IEMs, The Q5s and great selection of high quality digital media make it all just go away and can put you in a very happy place for those hours seated in a cramp seat with nowhere to go.

For what its worth, and again IMO

Hope someone here finds this helpful or useful.

 

[Hinomotocho]

If there is interest as I've seen several comparisons on this thread earlier, but not too many since newer members have joined in.
So at the risk of being a little repetitive, posting my impressions of the Q5 vs Q5s and various FiiO AM3x amp combinations, all of which are my opinions only so your mileage will vary.

I own both the Q5 (with AM3A and AM3D) and an Q5s (With the AM3E and AM3D amps)
I've owned other amp/dac combos also but to keep this simple, will just review these 2 against each other.
I prefer to run these via a direct USB cable connection vs. Bluetooth as I think I here a difference, so you won't see a comparison of Bluetooth connections here. I use it once in a while but prefer the direct cabling and passing just the digital O's and 1's for sound.
I choose traveling this way vs a DAP as the way Android sorts and presents music files just always drove me crazy, so using my PC, or other devices to just present the digital source to feed a DAC/AMP combo is just my preference.

I moved to the Q5s as Vs. the Q5 as it was smoother and more musical overall, but find with the IEM's I own (Shure SE846 and JH CIEM Roxanne's) as well as others I've borrowed (Noble K10 and Kahn) I have to use the higher gain setting Vs. the Q5 to get the overall sound I like vs. the Q5 (which sounds harsh with the high gain setting).

As far as amps/sound for both
On the Q5 there is a marked difference moving from the AM3A to the AM3E, and almost the same amount of sonic difference then going from the AM3E to the AM3D.
The AM3A to AM3E was huge. Much wider soundstage, better and clearer mids. Anyone who owns a Q5 and wondering if changing from the AM3A makes a difference all I can say is "yes".
Moving from the AM3E to the AM3D on the Q5 there was as notable of a change.
Most notably were the mids and highs. The mids were smoother, and the highs were a little clearer and seemed to have more sparkle. Soundstage also widened.
The Q5 with the dual AKM 4490EN DAC's always had great bass with lot of low end rumble, whether the bass boost was engaged or not.
With bass friendly IEM's like the SE846 and its low pass physical filter, you get a real subwoofer rumble and great clarity.

For the Q5s, it didn't make sense to try the AM3A on it, so I only tested the AM3E to the AM3D.
As noted above, moving to the High Gain setting seemed to open up all of the IEM's I tried. In the low setting, there was good sonics, but IMO there seemed to be a vail over highs and the sound overall seemed to suffer some presence. Moving to the high gain setting, everything just sounds right. Much clearer, and better separation of instruments across the soundstage.
With the AM3D there was better extension on the highs, and they were smoother, perhaps a touch wetter than the dry highs with less sparkle of the AM3E
but most notable were the mids. At first it tricks you as with the AM3E the mids are much more forward/in your face. It creates the illusion of having a wide soundstage as you can pick out specific instruments and the vocals are right up front.
Moving to the AM3D the mids are not quite as "in your face" but they are there, blending in nicely with the soundstage. Its not until you really listen that you start to hear things and can place where instruments and vocalist really are that you realize it does have a wider soundstage, and the sound is more natural and balanced vs the AM3E.
The bass on both with the Q5s and the newer AKM 4493 EQ DAC's are about the same. Maybe a little smoother in the mid bass with the AM3D. Nothing to be ashamed of, but in the area of bass, the Q5 seems to have a tad bit more slam, than the Q5s. Not much of a difference unless listening for specific bass/sub bass notes or rumble. Don't get me wrong the Q5s is still very enjoyable but if your a pure basshead, the older Q5 with the AM3E or AM3D amp might be for you. Else the Q5s is very pleasant and musical to listen to as it just seems to do things better across the board.

Overall which do I prefer?
The Q5s with the AM3D amp.
So much so it has replaced the Q5 for all of my travels (Pre Covid-19 I was on a plane about 25% of the month) as when you have that cigar smoking crying baby in the seat next to you, a good pair of IEMs, The Q5s and great selection of high quality digital media make it all just go away and can put you in a very happy place for those hours seated in a cramp seat with nowhere to go.

For what its worth, and again IMO

Hope someone here finds this helpful or useful.

Thank you - I'll try high gain

 

[NJoyzAudio]

Thank you - I'll try high gain

Hinomotocho, please do give it a try, as I was pleasantly surprised as coming out of the Q5 to the Q5s I was at first hesitant because on the Q5 it caused the sound to be harsh, nut I was glad I did, and hope you too find it to be better!

 

[Hinomotocho]

Hinomotocho, please do give it a try, as I was pleasantly surprised as coming out of the Q5 to the Q5s I was at first hesitant because on the Q5 it caused the sound to be harsh, nut I was glad I did, and hope you too find it to be better!

I also have a ZX300 and there are some posts on that thread there where people have prefered high gain on.

 

[Hinomotocho]

Hinomotocho, please do give it a try, as I was pleasantly surprised as coming out of the Q5 to the Q5s I was at first hesitant because on the Q5 it caused the sound to be harsh, nut I was glad I did, and hope you too find it to be better!

I've just had a quick listen trying to volume match. My quick impression is it sounded a bit more vibrant - I am too lazy to sit here and try and pick out any specific differences in the frequencies, but I quite like it, I'll leave it on... until someone talks me out of it.

 

[NJoyzAudio]

I've just had a quick listen trying to volume match. My quick impression is it sounded a bit more vibrant - I am too lazy to sit here and try and pick out any specific differences in the frequencies, but I quite like it, I'll leave it on... until someone talks me out of it.

Advice I live by, listen to others input but never let someone talk you out of your decision!
As a NooB to the forum, (But a not new to Head-Fi, been reading and using for years) Honored to have helped a 1000+ posting member! Enjoy!