[qsk78]

All multidriver BA IEM (unless they are not low impedance / high sensitive ones) will benefit from the 2.5 mm output.

 

[Brooko]

Why?

 

[qsk78]

Why?

Power

 

[tim0chan]

I own the Westone W60 and I have the opportunity to buy Westone symmetrical 2.5 mm from Linum Denmark. Anyone please try symmetric output on Q5? Is there any sound shift?

You mean balanced? Yes there is a change in sound, for the better. But for the price, I would recommend u go for a different cable, for example, one from effect audio

 

[Brooko]

Power

Sorry - I might be thick - but this doesn't make a lot of sense with relation to your statement:

All multidriver BA IEM (unless they are not low impedance / high sensitive ones) will benefit from the 2.5 mm output.

For example my Big Dipper, 7 BA driver per side - impedance 25 ohm, sensitivity 115 dB/mW

so either SE or BAL will drive beyond pain barrier.

If I look at your own S-em6 V2, its roughly same calculation.

Balanced is absolutely needed where you have a high impedance headphone requiring more power output (eg my HD800S), but in the case of the Q5, the somewhat higher output impedance via the balanced out (2 ohm) may actually be detrimental to particularly low impedance multi-driver BAs (with crossovers) in some cases due to it changing frequency response (depends on the ear-phone).

If I look at very hard to drive IEMs (MEE P1 for example => 50 ohm, 96 dB/mW) - its a dynamic, but we're talking power here ....

SE will get it to deafening levels - at l;east 115 dB, and close to 120 dB

Can you give an example of a multi-BA that the SE can't handle? Just so I can understand? TIA.

 

[qsk78]

My S-EM6 v2 do not perform at all (sound unacceptable) directly from Vantam CML with 80 mW per channel, although the source is just the best if it can drive.
They do not perform directly from Cowon Plenue P1 with 2 VRMS.
They do perform well with a proper amplification regardless if it’s SE or balanced output.
160 mW on the SE of the Q5 I consider as not enough to drive 6 drivers properly!
I ordered the AM3B to have even more power.

I just know how they can sound with a proper amplification. I do not need to link any theory to it, I trust my ears.

When I say "perform" I do not talk about the loudness. To me the loudness does not mean performance.

And yes, the balanced output is better - channel separation, at least.

I had the W60, CA Jupiter in the past - they both were easier to drive than the S-EM6 V2.
But again more power does not spoil the sound.

 

[Brooko]

So your opinion is based on subjective testing with one IEM (EarSonics S-EM6 V2), and you make a statement like:

All multidriver BA IEM (unless they are not low impedance / high sensitive ones) will benefit from the 2.5 mm output.

Perhaps you'd like to modify that? Its clearly incorrect.

Lets look a little deeper at the Q5 ......

It'll put 24mW into a 300 ohm load SE but 82 mW into the same load balanced. The voltage is also up. So if you're driving a load which requires a lot of voltage and is reasonably high impedance (eg like an HD650) there will be benefits. Not in the architecture, but in the power.

Look at the same load into an IEM though - say around 16 ohm. SE is 230 mW and balanced is 470 mW. Balanced must be better right? Not really. Balanced will chew the battery quicker, and both outputs would drive practically any IEM into the regions of deafening you. And its the same for the 32ohm load. Both are essentially over-kill for an IEM.

Now lets look at the real differences - those bits that people make claims on. Remember how balanced is always cleaner, darker, more spacious, wider sound-stage ....... Lets look at cleaner first. SNR on SE is 115 dB and on balanced is 115 dB. Both are beyond what we can hear - so no difference. Both have THD measurements at 0.001% = beyond our hearing. You'll get a magnitude more distortion from your earphones. Now the important one - crosstalk (channel separation). SE is 73 dB and balanced is 99 dB. That must make a big difference - right?

I'm going to quote something bookmarked a long time ago:

The FCC minimum channel separation/crosstalk spec for FM Stereo used to be 29.7dB...yes, that's right, 29.7. It had to do with how the signal was generated and handled, but 30 - 40dB wasn't hard to achieve, and 50dB wasn't uncommon.

The bulk of what is perceived as stereo separation happens above 20dB with decreasing detectable improvements above 30dB or so. It's almost impossible to detect separation improvements above 40dB. Localization of a phantom image depends less on channel separation and much more on relative intensity and inter-aural time delay of the sound, and human hearing response at different angles.
So....long answer...separation above 40dB doesn't improve sound quality, below 40dB it slowly degrades, the final separation is equal to the device with the least separation in the system. Once degraded by a device, no device following it can restore separation.

As you can see, SE crosstalk at 73 dB and balanced at 97 dB actually means nothing - we can't hear it.

What essentially happens is two things.

1. People read the specs, and tell themselves balanced must sound better, and thats what they talk themselves into. In a blind volume matched test, they won't tell a difference.
2. Most people don't volume match, and we are terrible at volume matching by ear (which is what a lot of people do). Most balanced circuits output a lot more power by design - therefore they are louder. People saying they hear a difference are often simply listening to one louder than the other. And we know louder is perceived as sounding better.

There are two other possibilities for differences:

• The balanced circuit actually sounds better by design (unlikely given FiiO's expertise)
• Impedance mismatch can affect frequency response for multi-BA driver set-ups (rarely happens with dynamics). You'll note the 1.4 ohm (SE) vs 2.0 ohm (bal) output.

I use balanced all the time with my HD800S - but its because of the power, and because the HD800S is a headphone which needs that power. I can assure you that none of my multi-BA IEMs (and I have easily around 25-30 by the time you count the hybrids too) need that sort of power,nor benefit from it.

 

[qsk78]

Ok. Not All but some )

 

[FiiO]

Still can’t get this darned DSD light on, checked all settings in UAPP, updated firmware and it still won’t budge....maybe an android issue will try with my Sony ZX-300 when my cable arrives later today!

Dear friend,

You may try the Hiby music APP to see if it helps? Can the DSD LED light up when playing DSD in the computer : How to play DSD files when Q1MKII/Q5 works as DAC for Windows computer

Best regards

 

[FiiO]

How do you upgrade the firmware? Looking on Fiio website, there isn’t anything to download, other than upgrade tools and these appear to be for windows pc, I only have a Mac.

Dear friend,

We don't have the upgrade tool for MAC, you may borrow a Windows computer for help. Sorry if bringing inconvenience to you.

Best regards

 

[gavinfabl]

Dear friend,

We don't have the upgrade tool for MAC, you may borrow a Windows computer for help. Sorry if bringing inconvenience to you.

Best regards

That is disappointing. All my friends use Macs so now I'm unable to update my Q5. Surely as you move to make your devices working with Apple gear officially, it would make sense to have the update system work the same. I bought the Q5 as it was also upgradeable.

a few pages back another Mac user asked the same question too.

is there any other ways / help to achieve this updating please ?

 

[oopsydaisy]

We don't have the upgrade tool for MAC, you may borrow a Windows computer for help. Sorry if bringing inconvenience to you.

This is unacceptable in 2018. While there are still way more windows users out there, there are many Mac users as well. Not to mention, this device is meant to work with Apple devices, wouldn’t it make sense to be able to upgrade from Apple’s desktop/laptop OS? You guys need to hire an Apple developer.

 

[hung031086]

Any impressions with AM3B ? Anyone uses the Q5 with HE560 ? I saw the HE560 is on sale right now but dont know that Q5 can drive it or not.

 

[snellemin]

Any impressions with AM3B ? Anyone uses the Q5 with HE560 ? I saw the HE560 is on sale right now but dont know that Q5 can drive it or not.

Drives my 400i just fine through the 4.4 output. Don't see why it wouldn't do well with the 560.

 

[gazzington]

I've ordered one of these today and I'm intending to partner it with my ipod touch 6th gen. Can't wait for it to arrive