[FiiO M17] Dual ES9038PRO, dual THXAAA-788+, dual power supplies, 9200mAh battery, 2 volume control modes
He said quite a lot and definitely has a favorable impression. Unfortunately though, my Chinese is still pretty horrible overall and would need to listen to it several times to capture just a quarter of what he was saying.
I could potentially ask the SO later to summarize his key points but that's somewhat risky as she likely would then quite passionately (and correctly..) point out once again I should stop spending my time shopping for more toys I don't need.
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hmscott
1000+ Head-Fier
Perhaps @FiiO could annotate / subtitle / translate into English a few of the best Chinese M17 reviews for the English speaking communities?
Something like this by FiiO: An Exploration of FiiO M17 Portable Desktop-Class Player
Something like this by FiiO: An Exploration of FiiO M17 Portable Desktop-Class Player
That would be great! It would be a "public service", an act of kindness for all of us poor English-only people of the world.He said quite a lot and definitely has a favorable impression. Unfortunately though, my Chinese is still pretty horrible overall and would need to listen to it several times to capture just a quarter of what he was saying.
I could potentially ask the SO later to summarize his key points but that's somewhat risky as she likely would then quite passionately (and correctly..) point out once again I should stop spending my time shopping for more toys I don't need.
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An Exploration of FiiO M17 Portable Desktop-Class Player
http://www.erji.net/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=2244546&extra=page=1
First of all, in order to make it easier for everyone to understand the size of these big music bricks, I made a data comparison of the volume and weight of common big bricks. Some of the data here are measured by myself with a ruler and weight meter, so some of them are relatively different from the official data.
http://www.erji.net/data/attachment/forum/202110/29/165127v71kas17ruiw0buk.jpg
The four players I invited to compare M17 this time are Xiangsheng’s MR2, Qianlongsheng QA390 and Haibei R8, as well as the melody W1, to compare the performance of M17 to its price point. But because not all of these machines were acquired together, some of them can only be remembered by impressions. And I just got the M17, it hasn't been turned on yet, and it is probably not in the best condition. Most of the time the M17 is compared with the unplugged mode.
First of all, the ranking in terms of resolution is about MR2 greater than M17, greater than QA390, slightly greater than W1, and approximately equal to R8. MR2 does my part to make it ranked first. In my impression, it is possible that the combination of QA390 plus PS1 can be in this respect. I have played back and forth with MR2, but the volume is more than a little bigger. It is possible that the 390le will be very strong, but I have not heard of it, so I will not comment. The quality of the M17 is amazing to me. Except for some micro-dynamic details that are slightly weaker than the MR2, the others are very good. I once hoped that the W1 of the double 4499 can compete with the MR2 in terms of quality, but then I found that compared to the quality flow of MR2, W1 has taken a different route, for a while. In terms of dynamics, the dynamics of MR2 and M17 are very strong, MR2 is slightly better, R8 is known for its great dynamics, but compared to larger products, it is slightly inadequate in this respect. QA390 has a larger dynamic difference between PS1 and PS1. Dynamic estimation can be ranked first. If not, it can only be said to be slightly stronger than R8, approximately equal to W1, and weaker than the other two. After the M17 is plugged in, the dynamics will be slightly better, but it is far inferior to the QA390 with or without PS1.
In terms of sound field, horizontal: W1 is larger than M17, slightly larger than R8, slightly larger than MR2, and approximately equal to QA390. W1 and the horizontal sound field gave me quite a surprise. I used to think that R8 was already the top player in the horizontal sound field of portable players. The DX220MAX I have is about this level, but the lateral sound field of W1 is significantly larger than that of R8, which is close to the level of GAX EVO. The horizontal sound field level of M17 is also quite good. I personally feel that it is at the same level as R8, or even slightly stronger. The longitudinal sound field M17 is approximately equal to MR2 slightly larger than QA390 and approximately equal to W1 slightly larger than R8. The sound fields of M17, MR2 and qa390 are more regular, while W1 and R8 are relatively flat. But if QA390 is paired with PS1, the vertical sound field should be ranked first.
In terms of three-frequency, except for W1 and R8, the other three machines are generally more balanced. There may be a slight trade-off in a certain frequency band, but they will not particularly cross the boundary. The sound quality of W1 determines that it is a relatively strong taste machine. It has the strongest mid-to-low frequency. The performance in this area is indeed more commendable, so when listening to some vocal-based music, it will be very substituted. Sense and atmosphere, and the driver K812 is particularly nice, it can well make up for the shortcomings of the 812's thinness, but the high frequency is relatively dim, so if you are listening to a violin or string combination, the high frequency ductility and overtones will be inferior The other four machines. The R8's low-frequency volume and dive are not as good as other machines. In terms of mid-frequency density, players at this price are not bad, but qa390 and MR2 are particularly good in this regard. M17 is not plugged in and it is at the same level. I think W1 is quite good for my taste. Yes, it is thicker and looser, followed by QA390. The other three can only be said to be not bad at their prices, but they cannot be said to be brilliant. In terms of high frequency, both MR2 and M17 have very strong high frequencies, with good resolution and extension. The most gorgeous high frequency is MR2, followed by M17, then QA390 and R8 are not bad, at least better than W1.
In terms of driving power, generally speaking, the driving power of the player is determined by the size and power supply. The battery of the M17 is 9200mah, and the R8 has a large battery of 10000mah. These two are outstanding among the players that can be mastered by one hand. But the other players in the comparison this time are all unconventional cheating guys. The battery capacity of W1 is 14000mah, MR2 is 13000mah, QA390 is 13200mah, and each capacity exceeds 10,000. In terms of thrust, the volume generally determines the drive level. Even the relatively easy-to-push K812 and AKT5P, the other four machines have a relatively large advantage compared to the R8 in terms of sound fullness and dynamics, and high-impedance headphones In terms of performance, I only have one T1ii. In terms of the performance of this headset, the larger the volume, the better the sound fullness and dynamics, the QA390 is approximately equal to M17 plug-in slightly better than MR2 slightly better than W1 approximately equal to M17 unplugged and better than R8 . For small earplugs, apart from the sound density and resolution, the gap is not too big. Relatively speaking, I prefer to use W1 to listen to human voices and MR2 to listen to instrumental music.
First of all, in order to make it easier for everyone to understand the size of these big music bricks, I made a data comparison of the volume and weight of common big bricks. Some of the data here are measured by myself with a ruler and weight meter, so some of them are relatively different from the official data.
The four players I invited to compare M17 this time are Xiangsheng’s MR2, Qianlongsheng QA390 and Haibei R8, as well as the melody W1, to compare the performance of M17 to its price point. But because not all of these machines were acquired together, some of them can only be remembered by impressions. And I just got the M17, it hasn't been turned on yet, and it is probably not in the best condition. Most of the time the M17 is compared with the unplugged mode.
First of all, the ranking in terms of resolution is about MR2 greater than M17, greater than QA390, slightly greater than W1, and approximately equal to R8. MR2 does my part to make it ranked first. In my impression, it is possible that the combination of QA390 plus PS1 can be in this respect. I have played back and forth with MR2, but the volume is more than a little bigger. It is possible that the 390le will be very strong, but I have not heard of it, so I will not comment. The quality of the M17 is amazing to me. Except for some micro-dynamic details that are slightly weaker than the MR2, the others are very good. I once hoped that the W1 of the double 4499 can compete with the MR2 in terms of quality, but then I found that compared to the quality flow of MR2, W1 has taken a different route, for a while. In terms of dynamics, the dynamics of MR2 and M17 are very strong, MR2 is slightly better, R8 is known for its great dynamics, but compared to larger products, it is slightly inadequate in this respect. QA390 has a larger dynamic difference between PS1 and PS1. Dynamic estimation can be ranked first. If not, it can only be said to be slightly stronger than R8, approximately equal to W1, and weaker than the other two. After the M17 is plugged in, the dynamics will be slightly better, but it is far inferior to the QA390 with or without PS1.
In terms of sound field, horizontal: W1 is larger than M17, slightly larger than R8, slightly larger than MR2, and approximately equal to QA390. W1 and the horizontal sound field gave me quite a surprise. I used to think that R8 was already the top player in the horizontal sound field of portable players. The DX220MAX I have is about this level, but the lateral sound field of W1 is significantly larger than that of R8, which is close to the level of GAX EVO. The horizontal sound field level of M17 is also quite good. I personally feel that it is at the same level as R8, or even slightly stronger. The longitudinal sound field M17 is approximately equal to MR2 slightly larger than QA390 and approximately equal to W1 slightly larger than R8. The sound fields of M17, MR2 and qa390 are more regular, while W1 and R8 are relatively flat. But if QA390 is paired with PS1, the vertical sound field should be ranked first.
In terms of three-frequency, except for W1 and R8, the other three machines are generally more balanced. There may be a slight trade-off in a certain frequency band, but they will not particularly cross the boundary. The sound quality of W1 determines that it is a relatively strong taste machine. It has the strongest mid-to-low frequency. The performance in this area is indeed more commendable, so when listening to some vocal-based music, it will be very substituted. Sense and atmosphere, and the driver K812 is particularly nice, it can well make up for the shortcomings of the 812's thinness, but the high frequency is relatively dim, so if you are listening to a violin or string combination, the high frequency ductility and overtones will be inferior The other four machines. The R8's low-frequency volume and dive are not as good as other machines. In terms of mid-frequency density, players at this price are not bad, but qa390 and MR2 are particularly good in this regard. M17 is not plugged in and it is at the same level. I think W1 is quite good for my taste. Yes, it is thicker and looser, followed by QA390. The other three can only be said to be not bad at their prices, but they cannot be said to be brilliant. In terms of high frequency, both MR2 and M17 have very strong high frequencies, with good resolution and extension. The most gorgeous high frequency is MR2, followed by M17, then QA390 and R8 are not bad, at least better than W1.
In terms of driving power, generally speaking, the driving power of the player is determined by the size and power supply. The battery of the M17 is 9200mah, and the R8 has a large battery of 10000mah. These two are outstanding among the players that can be mastered by one hand. But the other players in the comparison this time are all unconventional cheating guys. The battery capacity of W1 is 14000mah, MR2 is 13000mah, QA390 is 13200mah, and each capacity exceeds 10,000. In terms of thrust, the volume generally determines the drive level. Even the relatively easy-to-push K812 and AKT5P, the other four machines have a relatively large advantage compared to the R8 in terms of sound fullness and dynamics, and high-impedance headphones In terms of performance, I only have one T1ii. In terms of the performance of this headset, the larger the volume, the better the sound fullness and dynamics, the QA390 is approximately equal to M17 plug-in slightly better than MR2 slightly better than W1 approximately equal to M17 unplugged and better than R8 . For small earplugs, apart from the sound density and resolution, the gap is not too big. Relatively speaking, I prefer to use W1 to listen to human voices and MR2 to listen to instrumental music.
hmscott
1000+ Head-Fier
The Quloos QA390 was my other choice if I didn't get the Topping D90 MQA + A90 - and I'd already bought and enjoyed the FiiO M15 for a few months, and then all of a sudden I heard that the D90 MQA was about to ship, and so that decided it. I hadn't tracked the QA390 series since.http://www.erji.net/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=2244546&extra=page=1
First of all, in order to make it easier for everyone to understand the size of these big music bricks, I made a data comparison of the volume and weight of common big bricks. Some of the data here are measured by myself with a ruler and weight meter, so some of them are relatively different from the official data.
http://www.erji.net/data/attachment/forum/202110/29/165127v71kas17ruiw0buk.jpg
The four players I invited to compare M17 this time are Xiangsheng’s MR2, Qianlongsheng QA390 and Haibei R8, as well as the melody W1, to compare the performance of M17 to its price point. But because not all of these machines were acquired together, some of them can only be remembered by impressions. And I just got the M17, it hasn't been turned on yet, and it is probably not in the best condition. Most of the time the M17 is compared with the unplugged mode.
First of all, the ranking in terms of resolution is about MR2 greater than M17, greater than QA390, slightly greater than W1, and approximately equal to R8. MR2 does my part to make it ranked first. In my impression, it is possible that the combination of QA390 plus PS1 can be in this respect. I have played back and forth with MR2, but the volume is more than a little bigger. It is possible that the 390le will be very strong, but I have not heard of it, so I will not comment. The quality of the M17 is amazing to me. Except for some micro-dynamic details that are slightly weaker than the MR2, the others are very good. I once hoped that the W1 of the double 4499 can compete with the MR2 in terms of quality, but then I found that compared to the quality flow of MR2, W1 has taken a different route, for a while. In terms of dynamics, the dynamics of MR2 and M17 are very strong, MR2 is slightly better, R8 is known for its great dynamics, but compared to larger products, it is slightly inadequate in this respect. QA390 has a larger dynamic difference between PS1 and PS1. Dynamic estimation can be ranked first. If not, it can only be said to be slightly stronger than R8, approximately equal to W1, and weaker than the other two. After the M17 is plugged in, the dynamics will be slightly better, but it is far inferior to the QA390 with or without PS1.
In terms of sound field, horizontal: W1 is larger than M17, slightly larger than R8, slightly larger than MR2, and approximately equal to QA390. W1 and the horizontal sound field gave me quite a surprise. I used to think that R8 was already the top player in the horizontal sound field of portable players. The DX220MAX I have is about this level, but the lateral sound field of W1 is significantly larger than that of R8, which is close to the level of GAX EVO. The horizontal sound field level of M17 is also quite good. I personally feel that it is at the same level as R8, or even slightly stronger. The longitudinal sound field M17 is approximately equal to MR2 slightly larger than QA390 and approximately equal to W1 slightly larger than R8. The sound fields of M17, MR2 and qa390 are more regular, while W1 and R8 are relatively flat. But if QA390 is paired with PS1, the vertical sound field should be ranked first.
In terms of three-frequency, except for W1 and R8, the other three machines are generally more balanced. There may be a slight trade-off in a certain frequency band, but they will not particularly cross the boundary. The sound quality of W1 determines that it is a relatively strong taste machine. It has the strongest mid-to-low frequency. The performance in this area is indeed more commendable, so when listening to some vocal-based music, it will be very substituted. Sense and atmosphere, and the driver K812 is particularly nice, it can well make up for the shortcomings of the 812's thinness, but the high frequency is relatively dim, so if you are listening to a violin or string combination, the high frequency ductility and overtones will be inferior The other four machines. The R8's low-frequency volume and dive are not as good as other machines. In terms of mid-frequency density, players at this price are not bad, but qa390 and MR2 are particularly good in this regard. M17 is not plugged in and it is at the same level. I think W1 is quite good for my taste. Yes, it is thicker and looser, followed by QA390. The other three can only be said to be not bad at their prices, but they cannot be said to be brilliant. In terms of high frequency, both MR2 and M17 have very strong high frequencies, with good resolution and extension. The most gorgeous high frequency is MR2, followed by M17, then QA390 and R8 are not bad, at least better than W1.
In terms of driving power, generally speaking, the driving power of the player is determined by the size and power supply. The battery of the M17 is 9200mah, and the R8 has a large battery of 10000mah. These two are outstanding among the players that can be mastered by one hand. But the other players in the comparison this time are all unconventional cheating guys. The battery capacity of W1 is 14000mah, MR2 is 13000mah, QA390 is 13200mah, and each capacity exceeds 10,000. In terms of thrust, the volume generally determines the drive level. Even the relatively easy-to-push K812 and AKT5P, the other four machines have a relatively large advantage compared to the R8 in terms of sound fullness and dynamics, and high-impedance headphones In terms of performance, I only have one T1ii. In terms of the performance of this headset, the larger the volume, the better the sound fullness and dynamics, the QA390 is approximately equal to M17 plug-in slightly better than MR2 slightly better than W1 approximately equal to M17 unplugged and better than R8 . For small earplugs, apart from the sound density and resolution, the gap is not too big. Relatively speaking, I prefer to use W1 to listen to human voices and MR2 to listen to instrumental music.
I almost bought the QA390 as I prefer a battery powered audio system to avoid EMI/RFI/Grounding issues. That is why I had purchased the FiiO M15 first, as I knew I was going to have noise issues from my environment.
I see there is a much more expensive Quloos QA390 Limited 2021 version, but I cannot see a comparison as to what it has the original doesn't, via DM can someone please clue me in? I can't find a comparison or review specific to the Limited 2021 release. All I've found is this, without Auto English translation CC...and this
The M17 is much smaller and lighter than the QA390, everything is relative. The M17 (620g) is 2x the M15 (307g), and the M17 is almost 3x the weight of my Samsung S20 Ultra (222g), and almost 4x the weight of the Kindle (174g).
But the QA390 (1800g) is almost 3x the weight of the M17!
My finding of the QA390 LE was a simple extension of looking up the items in the review you posted, with the QA390 LE being recently released I was curious as to what it had to offer - especially since I considered the original around the time I got all my current gear. The LE version only came to Taiwan in September, and is now being rolled out - 600 units.
I found out here the Official Site details page for the QA390LE. But again it is all in Chinese - and this time the Chinese text is locked up in image's numbering all the upgrade differences, numbered but untranslated. I'll break out the Google Translate App on my phone and translate it as best I can
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For the W1 mentioned above, I think it is YinLvMei W1, which I also have and installed native Linux on. It even runs HQPlayer! But as it is stated above the soud is pretty colored and the high frequencies are veiled. It is a thick sounding player, which I am not a big fan of.
There is actually QA390LE. It has nothing to do with M17, of course, and nowhere to be found in the west:The Quloos QA390 was my other choice if I didn't get the Topping D90 MQA + A90 - and I'd bought and enjoyed the FiiO M15 for a few months, and then all of a sudden I heard that the D90 MQA was about to ship, and so that decided it.
I almost bought the QA390 as I prefer a battery powered audio system to avoid EMI/RFI/Grounding issues. Also, that is why I bought the FiiO M15 first as I knew I was going to have noise issues from my environment.
I see there is a much more expensive Quloos QA390 Limited 2021 version, but I cannot see a comparison as to what it has the original doesn't, via DM can someone please clue me in? I can't find a comparison or review specific to the Limited 2021 release. All I've found is this, without Auto English translation CC...
The M17 is much smaller and lighter than the QA390, everything is relative. The M17 (620g) is 2x the M15 (307g), and the M17 is almost 3x the weight of my Samsung S20 Ultra (222g), and almost 4x the weight of the Kindle (174g).
But the QA390 (1800g) is almost 3x the weight of the M17!
https://inf.news/en/digital/630c3c962e73cc63371fc910df1b4e8c.html
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https://www.dma-audio.com/products/fiio-m17
This page has the best description I have ever seen for M17
"[Not even flagship class is enough to describe the battleship class M17]
Fiio M17 (Battleship class portable lossless music player)
Flagship class/ Desktop class/ Battleship class/ Armored style"
This page has the best description I have ever seen for M17
"[Not even flagship class is enough to describe the battleship class M17]
Fiio M17 (Battleship class portable lossless music player)
Flagship class/ Desktop class/ Battleship class/ Armored style"
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That is a lot of exaggerated hype. There is no such thing as battleship class in the audio world. Desktop class is the most vaguely and also debatable class. Most of the time people would associate desktop class to something that is stationary, with the correct design where power supplies and power output is not a limit. However, even within desktop class, different design, topology and architecture, would result in different performances. Most of desktop class are highly expensive, piece by piece, for example a Hugo TT2 with GSX MKII and a properly digital transport like Raspberry that were built dedicated to music transport, or a built PC. Now this is desktop class
However, since portable players are progressively approaching the power output of desktop devices, it still doesn’t mean that it is qualified of being a desktop class either.
One of the most important factor for any desktop class is to get a proper power supply implementations. For example, the Sony DMP Z1 is highly regarded of being a desktop class that is semi transportable, just because it can run on batteries alone, or purely switching out toward external supplies without the LDO from batteries and related boosts. It can totally run independently , directly and purely off from the external PSU itself.
The M17 is still having the external PSU to go through the LDO stages that is shared with the batteries power supply.
But from the usage of desktop DAC ES9038Pros X2, and the THX amp, with powerful output is “plausible” to call it a desktop class.
And when putting it bluntly, the Ibasso DX300Max has a better power supplies than the M17. At least the dedication and it design with purity are qualified to be just somewhat approaching desktop class. The same as the Shanling M30 that runs from 18V batteries packs, and there is also Cayin C9 that runs from 8.4V packs by two to form 16.8V rails (similar to Dx300Max). Out of all of the bunches, the M30 is more qualified for being a desktop class with a voltage swing of upto 32V. Even so, that is barely cutting it close. However, the shanling M30 is yet to use any boosts in voltage from it battery pack. If you count in what M17 is doing, boosting 4X from the batteries, then the M30 can easily swing a total of 120V or 50-60V rails.
But that is just my Opinion
However, since portable players are progressively approaching the power output of desktop devices, it still doesn’t mean that it is qualified of being a desktop class either.
One of the most important factor for any desktop class is to get a proper power supply implementations. For example, the Sony DMP Z1 is highly regarded of being a desktop class that is semi transportable, just because it can run on batteries alone, or purely switching out toward external supplies without the LDO from batteries and related boosts. It can totally run independently , directly and purely off from the external PSU itself.
The M17 is still having the external PSU to go through the LDO stages that is shared with the batteries power supply.
But from the usage of desktop DAC ES9038Pros X2, and the THX amp, with powerful output is “plausible” to call it a desktop class.
And when putting it bluntly, the Ibasso DX300Max has a better power supplies than the M17. At least the dedication and it design with purity are qualified to be just somewhat approaching desktop class. The same as the Shanling M30 that runs from 18V batteries packs, and there is also Cayin C9 that runs from 8.4V packs by two to form 16.8V rails (similar to Dx300Max). Out of all of the bunches, the M30 is more qualified for being a desktop class with a voltage swing of upto 32V. Even so, that is barely cutting it close. However, the shanling M30 is yet to use any boosts in voltage from it battery pack. If you count in what M17 is doing, boosting 4X from the batteries, then the M30 can easily swing a total of 120V or 50-60V rails.
But that is just my Opinion
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Currawong mentioned the C9 and ifi Diablo were weak sauce for the LCD-5.
Are you saying M17 will have similar fate?
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we shall see
, I am just speculating from a sensible point of view from technicalities. Keep in mind that “drive to performances” are also a subjective “terms”.
Until proper review everything else is guess and wishes. Its good to have power but SQ is to be tested, I like sound of M15 but would not like to be colder or more reference than that.
srkbear
500+ Head-Fier
I agree and said as much in my comment—I am a fan and have many of their products. But Asia holds a much higher market share of this “high end” audio category and FiiO is an Asian brand. Their US and UK markets are secondary subsidiaries.
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That is pretty normal, and actually the only things that sells in the US/UK parts are those “tiktok, influences, challenges, viral clips” LOL! Lies and conspiracies , Whatever that can entertain the audiences, and before any one to judge, the Us/Uk is actually leading the way of the human colonies, other countries will follow suit as they already are.
if you noticed, at the present time all of the luxurious stuff are sold very well toward the influencers, the celebrities, and not exactly the common folks. These stuff actually sells better in Asia, especially China (based on the cultures and potentials). China is a huge market with a huge populations, huge potential, is also a country that is growing with a lot of inertia and momentum. Both of the US/UK prime times are over. Whatever left of both these supreme powers are “the last thrust of momentum’s” that they have created by exhausting all of their resources, and extended manipulations To the world economy. I would dare to say that such momentum won’t last long when you compare to China as a market of growth.
There are a lot more to say about these stuff. Anyways, let’s get back to the Audiophile markets, even Sony admitted that Asia has a huge demand for these stuff, and not the US/UK. So, it isnt strange to me that Fiio as China origin, and focused, prioritized China market at all.
If you think I was being sarcastic when I said “we all should learn Chinese, just like French, Spanish”, then you are wrong. I am just being “realistic”. Do you see the “French and the Spanish“ products being released to the world as much as the US, and especially “Made in China” ? That is a hard cold fact. Speaking from the “cultural side of things”, the China potentials is totally “the US/UK” back in their prime time after WWII, and keep on growing.
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