[Elbonja]

Most daps sound the same? Or Fiio daps sound almost the same? If is the first sentence you are totally wrong

"Totally wrong" sounds quite subjective, as my initial statement apparently. But yes, most DAPs do sound the same, what really makes a difference is what you plug in your ears. I said most, right? The differences are subtle and in my opinion not worth some of the over the top prices out there.

As I said before, I listen to music to ENJOY, not analyze the device itself.

To each their own I guess.

 

[denis1976]

"Totally wrong" sounds quite subjective, as my initial statement apparently. But yes, most DAPs do sound the same, what really makes a difference is what you plug in your ears. I said most, right? The differences are subtle and in my opinion not worth some of the over the top prices out there.

As I said before, I listen to music to ENJOY, not analyze the device itself.

To each their own I guess.

If that is right why you in a 1k dap thread? Go to a 100 euros , they all sound the same.....no, not all daps sound the same, that is reality , not an subjective stuff,about the sq price ratio, if you know anything about this crazy hobby you know that to evolve 5 % in sq you have to spend double or more that is valid to home audio too, its life....but sometimes those 5% are so wonderfull....i ENJOY listen to music very much, the only thing i dont enjoy is my bank account.

 

[Elbonja]

If that is right why you in a 1k dap thread? Go to a 100 euros , they all sound the same.....no, not all daps sound the same, that is reality , not an subjective stuff,about the sq price ratio, if you know anything about this crazy hobby you know that to evolve 5 % in sq you have to spend double or more that is valid to home audio too, its life....but sometimes those 5% are so wonderfull....i ENJOY listen to music very much, the only thing i dont enjoy is my bank account.

1. I'm here because I want to.
2. As I said before, my primary characteristic I'm looking for is DC mode.
3. As I said before, MOST DAPs sound the same. I didn't say ALL.

In your opinion, what percentage of influence over sound quality do you attribute to the headset? 20%? 30%? 40%?

 

[denis1976]

In some cases i will give -50% if is a bad headset, the final sound is the result of the mariage of the headset plus dap plus cable and plus the quality of the recording, is no need to be a cientist to come to this conclusion,back to the topic, M17 in dc mode is very good, the best Fiio to date IMO,i hope that the m15s follow that path, clean sound is good but clean and steril is not so good at least for my taste

 

[Dixter]

chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://www.esstech.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/ES9038PRO-Datasheet-v3.7.pdf

at first it looks like fiio created a trickle down DAP from the M17... with the same DAC we should expect the M15s to sound somewhat close... but the M17 uses two of the DAC chips..and the M15s uses one of the DAC chips... what is interesting when the spec sheet is examined is that the DAC is a 8 channel DAC... as in 8 channels of surround sound as in Doby Atmos... but according to the spec sheet if you plan on using the DAC as a two channel device they recommend that the other non used channels get connected in parallel and that in turn improves upon the DNR and SNR parameters... so the M17 gets to use 16 channels ( 2x DAC ) and the M15s gets to use 8 channels ( 1x DAC ) in this mode... and thus the M15s could sound slightly different... and this configuration will mate to the different Opamps of the M15s ..... so I think the M15s at least compared to the M17 will sound slightly different... I can't wait for the reviews to see how this all plays out... should be interesting how fiio configured the DAC/OPamp

 

[jjxaker]

As I said before, I listen to music to ENJOY, not analyze the device itself.

The fact is that many things in sound can be achieved at the software level, that is, at the firmware level of the device. and you may like it, but then a fair question arises why then top-end hardware and why pay for the device at all with this money. for this reason, no, first we look at the iron and only then we listen to the sound.

I see many people focus on the DAC, but it affects the sound significantly less than, for example, operational amplifiers. Also, the fact of how many DACs are used is not very important. why? because this is DAP, even dacs below the level cannot be opened without additional power. especially such as 9038PRO, there is not so much space in the player to unlock its potential, this is more marketing than a necessity. FiiO could safely put DUAL 9068AS and lose almost nothing, especially without an outlet, but it's not so cool for marketing. in general, it is better to invest in strapping, not DACs.
This product causes controversy and doubts only because in my opinion its price does not correspond to its level.
As I understand it, there is not even an XMOS controller here, or at best it is the first generation. since for some reason there is no information about this in the specifications, which means there is nothing to be proud of.
15S, well, the level is higher than 11 Plus, but how much, we still do not see a printed PCB for evaluation. for example, it's important to me, I want to understand what I'm buying. I can do it myself, but to do a full study myself after the purchase is very risky for me financially. I want to buy this player, as I love the products of this company more than competitors, but we'll see...

 

[Dixter]

can someone help with an explanation on the OP Amps used on the M15s... its the same Op Amp they are using on several of their units... like the M11s ... how did they get 1.2 watts from a Opa926 ???

 

[FiiO]

can someone help with an explanation on the OP Amps used on the M15s... its the same Op Amp they are using on several of their units... like the M11s ... how did they get 1.2 watts from a Opa926 ???

Dear friend,

The magnification factor and power supply mode are different in M15S and M11S.
The M15S could support Ultra High Mode when connecting to quick charger. The max output power will be 1200mW@32Ω in the ultra high mode, and the power supply of the amp module will be increased to +7.6V.

Best regards

 

[RIGATIO]

If that is right why you in a 1k dap thread? Go to a 100 euros , they all sound the same.....no, not all daps sound the same, that is reality , not an subjective stuff,about the sq price ratio, if you know anything about this crazy hobby you know that to evolve 5 % in sq you have to spend double or more that is valid to home audio too, its life....but sometimes those 5% are so wonderfull....i ENJOY listen to music very much, the only thing i dont enjoy is my bank account.

Thats irrelevant.. Most daps over 900 bucks sound already so good, that i personally find it hard to distinguish sometimes. They differ slightly in tonality but SQ itself is already on a very high level when you use efficient to moderate demanding iems/headphones.

Let me present you with my conclusions from some of the A/B testing i did last 2 years (most of them being on a higher level than 200 dol dongles):

Test 1. Shanling M9, IBasso dx312EXN, Pioneer XDP-300r, using Beyerdynamic Xelento, Ibasso IT07.
First impressions: M9- WOW what a stage, bass and dynamics. Its a new toy and very expensive, so it must sound the best. And it did. But doing this comparisons on the second day, i honestly didnt hear any difference in soundstage width and bass response between the M9 and the 5 years old Pioneer. I got depressed -2700e! The Ibasso presented slightly different type of separation, so it was easier to distinguish but it wasnt by no means worse. The detail was just slightly better on the M9. Was it the best sounding? Yes it was but maybe 8-10% better.

Test 2. IBasso dx312 EXN, AK Sp1000, AK Sp1000M, Pioneer (again), using Xelento, Nanna, IT07, Monarch Mk2:
The Sp1k had the deepest sound with the blackest beckground. But the staging, overall detail were better on the IBasso. Pioneer had more polite dynamics but the staging and detail were comparable. The 1000M sounded warmer than the Sp1k. Thats all.
All of them sounded best with the Monarch Mk2 and also very similar. I would pick the Pioneer paired with the Monarch Mk2 over the Sp1000 paired with Xelento, Nanna or IT07 anytime. That shows how much more important transducers are.

Test 3. Shanling M8, Fiio M11 Plus ESS, AK Norma sr25, AK Sp2kT, AK Acro ca1000.
Here the main differences were in tonality, were the M8 sounded the most organic. But technicalities were practically on the same level, with the sr25 having narrowest staging (but still very good) and the M11 Plus ESS having slightly flatter sound. But the differences were small and every source sounded great enough with the Monarch Mk2 and Dan Clark Aeon Noire.

Test 4. AK Kann Max, IBasso dx320, IFI Gold Bar.
Small differences in tonality, where the dx320 was warmer and smoother in trebles, the Max having sharper (but still precise and very good) treble, Gold Bar having big dynamics and very very similar detail retrieval. Soundstage was similar on the Max and dx320, slightly narrower but higher on the IFI.

Do the expensive daps sound better? Yes they do but just very slightly better. The M15s will probably be on the level of other daps from the price range 900-2200e, with small nuances. The main differences are in tonality-slightly warmer, colder, sharper or smoother.

 

[Dixter]

@FiiO when do you think the manual for the M15s will be available for down load...
thanks

 

[denis1976]

Thats irrelevant.. Most daps over 900 bucks sound already so good, that i personally find it hard to distinguish sometimes. They differ slightly in tonality but SQ itself is already on a very high level when you use efficient to moderate demanding iems/headphones.

Let me present you with my conclusions from some of the A/B testing i did last 2 years (most of them being on a higher level than 200 dol dongles):

Test 1. Shanling M9, IBasso dx312EXN, Pioneer XDP-300r, using Beyerdynamic Xelento, Ibasso IT07.
First impressions: M9- WOW what a stage, bass and dynamics. Its a new toy and very expensive, so it must sound the best. And it did. But doing this comparisons on the second day, i honestly didnt hear any difference in soundstage width and bass response between the M9 and the 5 years old Pioneer. I got depressed -2700e! The Ibasso presented slightly different type of separation, so it was easier to distinguish but it wasnt by no means worse. The detail was just slightly better on the M9. Was it the best sounding? Yes it was but maybe 8-10% better.

Test 2. IBasso dx312 EXN, AK Sp1000, AK Sp1000M, Pioneer (again), using Xelento, Nanna, IT07, Monarch Mk2:
The Sp1k had the deepest sound with the blackest beckground. But the staging, overall detail were better on the IBasso. Pioneer had more polite dynamics but the staging and detail were comparable. The 1000M sounded warmer than the Sp1k. Thats all.
All of them sounded best with the Monarch Mk2 and also very similar. I would pick the Pioneer paired with the Monarch Mk2 over the Sp1000 paired with Xelento, Nanna or IT07 anytime. That shows how much more important transducers are.

Test 3. Shanling M8, Fiio M11 Plus ESS, AK Norma sr25, AK Sp2kT, AK Acro ca1000.
Here the main differences were in tonality, were the M8 sounded the most organic. But technicalities were practically on the same level, with the sr25 having narrowest staging (but still very good) and the M11 Plus ESS having slightly flatter sound. But the differences were small and every source sounded great enough with the Monarch Mk2 and Dan Clark Aeon Noire.

Test 4. AK Kann Max, IBasso dx320, IFI Gold Bar.
Small differences in tonality, where the dx320 was warmer and smoother in trebles, the Max having sharper (but still precise and very good) treble, Gold Bar having big dynamics and very very similar detail retrieval. Soundstage was similar on the Max and dx320, slightly narrower but higher on the IFI.

Do the expensive daps sound better? Yes they do but just very slightly better. The M15s will probably be on the level of other daps from the price range 900-2200e, with small nuances. The main differences are in tonality-slightly warmer, colder, sharper or smoother.

Dont understand the meaning of your post, is your opinion i respect that, but your opinion is not very diferent than mine ,so....what you are saying is that there are diferences between daps but subtle ones, yes i agree, that the incrise in sq dont match the incrise in price,i agree, but thats what happens in almost everything , more expensive dont mean better sound, dont agree, you may not like the sound signature but other may love it, if a dap that cost 3k has worse sq than a 1k must be broken or dont match your taste, just it, about the M8 that you love i had one in the past with my sp2000cu and is a good dap, but the sp2000 is way better IMO,but by the price diference it should be ,but you love it , i just like it, to my ears there is a clear diference in sound quality when daps are plus 3k , but some people are earing but not listening, they are only searching diferences in bass treble stage...is not it ,is the sensation of reality, just it

 

[Dixter]

Dear friend,

The magnification factor and power supply mode are different in M15S and M11S.
The M15S could support Ultra High Mode when connecting to quick charger. The max output power will be 1200mW@32Ω in the ultra high mode, and the power supply of the amp module will be increased to +7.6V.

Best regards

@FiiO will the M15s require a special charger to turn on the ultra high mode... if so, will it come with the adapter or will fiio sell one ??

 

[Micha111]

@Dixter
when I’m loading my M15S with a standard Samsung EP-TA200 wall charger, the ultra high mode is available.

edit:
My M15S with screen protector now. Have some left for a Samsung smartphone with bigger display than the M15S’s. Cut it to 131x64mm, so it fits perfectly till beginning of the curved parts from the display.

 

[Elbonja]

Dont understand the meaning of your post, is your opinion i respect that, but your opinion is not very diferent than mine ,so....what you are saying is that there are diferences between daps but subtle ones, yes i agree, that the incrise in sq dont match the incrise in price,i agree, but thats what happens in almost everything , more expensive dont mean better sound, dont agree, you may not like the sound signature but other may love it, if a dap that cost 3k has worse sq than a 1k must be broken or dont match your taste, just it, about the M8 that you love i had one in the past with my sp2000cu and is a good dap, but the sp2000 is way better IMO,but by the price diference it should be ,but you love it , i just like it, to my ears there is a clear diference in sound quality when daps are plus 3k , but some people are earing but not listening, they are only searching diferences in bass treble stage...is not it ,is the sensation of reality, just it

There's a reason most people into this hobby tend to reject blind testing their products. When it comes to the human sensory apparatus, psychological factors have a lot to do with how we listen to sound.

A blind test is a fair test, more than 95% of the time, people can not spot the difference in sound quality. As @RIGATIO said, the differences are in tonality, not in sound quality.

 

[RIGATIO]

Dont understand the meaning of your post, is your opinion i respect that, but your opinion is not very diferent than mine ,so....what you are saying is that there are diferences between daps but subtle ones, yes i agree, that the incrise in sq dont match the incrise in price,i agree, but thats what happens in almost everything , more expensive dont mean better sound, dont agree, you may not like the sound signature but other may love it, if a dap that cost 3k has worse sq than a 1k must be broken or dont match your taste, just it, about the M8 that you love i had one in the past with my sp2000cu and is a good dap, but the sp2000 is way better IMO,but by the price diference it should be ,but you love it , i just like it, to my ears there is a clear diference in sound quality when daps are plus 3k , but some people are earing but not listening, they are only searching diferences in bass treble stage...is not it ,is the sensation of reality, just it

Sensation of reality is 90% transducer dependent. With neutral, smooth and even tuned iems, the differences between sources that are 1000-1500 dol apart, are just very small. The DAP 3k + will have some extra 4% of refinement but its lost when using a DAP in a DAP scenarios, like outside, trains, plains, shops or just walking.
This doesnt mean that someone shoulndt buy a very expensive DAP, poeple should buy what they want, its not my business, just sharing my experiences.