[mhoopes]

Thank you for this, however the problem is the kind of headphones I want, which are light weight clip-on on ear type and not in-ear, are few and far in between. The only popular one I keep seeing is the Koss KSC75 but it seems a bit too heavy, the ATH EQ500 is too perfect at 20 grams, and the audio quality is not horrendous at the spec. I should probably post a separate thread for clip-on headphone recommendations but I've looked through some of the existing ones and couldn't find anything much superior.

I have an Avantree Cara II bluetooth transmitter and i get an ever so slight hiss when using it with the ATH EQ500, mainly because I listen 90% to audiobooks and podcasts at low volumes.

I've decided to go for the FiiO BTR3 even though it is overkill for these headphones, got it delivered yesterday.

First surprising thing about this little gadget is the weight, it is super tiny but also substantially heavy, I'd wager with the metal clip it's easly 30 grams or more, about the weight of a 9v battery maybe slightly less (the site says 25g but they might be saying that without the clip). On a thin t-shirt it can definitely be felt when clipping onto a shoulder. The clip is made of really solid metal, and feels VERY premium. in fact, the whole build is absolutely top notch, feels like it's an expensive product and has a lot of tech packed into its tiny dense frame.

NFC; this feature is slightly different from how I expected it to work, basically you need to hold the power button to power on the device first, and then use NFC to tap your phone and connect. On another NFC bluetooth headset I had, NFC would also power on/power off the bluetooth device itself, but that's not the case here. Would have loved to seen the NFC being the same but its not a horrendous issue.

Audio quality; now my headphones are by no means super power hungry at 103 dB/mW and i'm no audio expert either, but I have not heard even the slightest bit of noise or disturbance when listening at low volumes, mainly podcasts and audio books. It is excellent, definitely indistinguishable from a 3.5mm analog connection to my pc. The convenience of wireless at the quality of wired is what this device aims to deliver and at least in my case, delivers perfectly. Definitely recommended!

Gotcha - there are limited headphone choices for audio enthusiasts in truly lightweight on-ear form. Glad you like the ones you have.
I see by the blue FiiO logo that it's using the SBC codec, though Avantree says their unit supports AAC (cyan logo in the BTR3) and aptX (purple). Have you seen it connect to AAC or aptX? That could make a noticeable difference.
[edit] Ahh, the Avantree Cara II is a receiver, so that's obviously not in play in your picture. What is transmitting there?

 

[SubMash]

Every battery has an upper limit of charge cycles, this is an irrefutable fact. Every time you charge it, you're reducing the battery life and charge cycles. This is common sense at this point. Having it charging during use puts a constant bidirectional load on the battery, reducing the life of the battery faster than normal use and charging cycles. It's physics and common sense, this whole idea of a device not using the battery while plugged in because of a difference in output and input isn't scientifically sound. I'm not saying charging while using isn't possible, it certainly is, but so is driving with one hand out the window, it's just not recommended.

I'm managing company that actively using and testing millions of battery cells. A number of cycles - consumer characteristic that is defined by Charging Current limit and with the full cycle of complete charge-discharge because this is the most common battery use scenario - full charge, almost full discharge. There is no physical dependency from a number of any cycles. Reality is that there is an extended wear of electrolyte and electrodes due to the presence of current. And smaller current per energy - smaller wear until the point that it doesn't matter anymore, because self-oxidization becomes stronger than usage wear.

Now once you keep the battery on the charger and using it, especially in this particular device - you are NOT charging it more often and NOT discharging it at all except self-discharge which instantly compensated by the presence of charging voltage. So your logic is not applicable here at all - there is no bidirectional load on a battery.

If you're using ES100 it even has a battery saving mode where it won't charge battery above 80%. That saves a lot of battery cell life because keeping the battery at high voltage wears it very fast.

If anyone will decide that it's better to use without the charger connected and only connect charger once it's empty - makes an enormous mistake. That would wear battery and decrease capacity much much faster.

 

[alphak]

Gotcha - there are limited headphone choices for audio enthusiasts in truly lightweight on-ear form. Glad you like the ones you have.
I see by the blue FiiO logo that it's using the SBC codec, though Avantree says their unit supports AAC (cyan logo in the BTR3) and aptX (purple). Have you seen it connect to AAC or aptX? That could make a noticeable difference.
[edit] Ahh, the Avantree Cara II is a receiver, so that's obviously not in play in your picture. What is transmitting there?

I meant receiver sorry! Cara II does have AptX (non HD and non LL) so i tried using it, was still able to hear some audio noise on my EQ 500 headphones, maybe it can't supply enough power or something. Definitely no such issues on the BTR3 anymore!

And the FiiO BTR3 blue light, honestly, I've got it on SBC because maybe my headphones aren't powerful enough but I notice very little difference switching between LDAC and AptX HD and SBC. So I thought I'll keep it at SBC and save a decent bit of battery especially on the phone. So far I've gotten into hour 12 (8 yesterday and 4 today) and BTR3's battery still says 30% in settings, and audio quality is still just as good, no noise or screeches etc. Absolutely loving it, our wireless future is here boys and gals!

 

[mhoopes]

I'm managing company that actively using and testing millions of battery cells. A number of cycles - consumer characteristic that is defined by Charging Current limit and with the full cycle of complete charge-discharge because this is the most common battery use scenario - full charge, almost full discharge. There is no physical dependency from a number of any cycles. Reality is that there is an extended wear of electrolyte and electrodes due to the presence of current. And smaller current per energy - smaller wear until the point that it doesn't matter anymore, because self-oxidization becomes stronger than usage wear.

Now once you keep the battery on the charger and using it, especially in this particular device - you are NOT charging it more often and NOT discharging it at all except self-discharge which instantly compensated by the presence of charging voltage. So your logic is not applicable here at all - there is no bidirectional load on a battery.

If you're using ES100 it even has a battery saving mode where it won't charge battery above 80%. That saves a lot of battery cell life because keeping the battery at high voltage wears it very fast.

If anyone will decide that it's better to use without the charger connected and only connect charger once it's empty - makes an enormous mistake. That would wear battery and decrease capacity much much faster.

I had a buddy who never unplugged his Toshiba laptop because the didn't know how to make his screen brighter when it was unplugged. His LIB was dead in less than a year. Constant top-off is likely the cause. So there's a balance that is helpful to attempt: charging current vs. storage voltage. I'd say use its "partial-charging" mode if you're worried about battery life. CVCC charging might produce more heat when charging from very low battery potentials (when in CC mode), but the ES100 doesn't seem to get very warm when charging, in my experience.

Here's a discussion comment I ran into recently that talks about some of the issues of the typical wireless charging use case, in response to a ZDNet article entitled "iPhone X/8: Wireless charging will wear out the battery faster than cable charging":

altema1 • 6 months ago

Hey everyone, just thought I'd chime as an engineer and former mobile device repair tech.
First off, the 500 cycle is an estimate. Lithium ion and lithium polymer batteries do not care about the actual number of charge cycles, as their lifespan is determined by the total voltage flowing through the battery. This total usually averages out to about 500 cycles, so that's why they still use the reference. Older battery technologies did care about the actual number, even if they were minor charges, due to battery memory. Those were mostly nickel cadmium and nickel metal hydride batteries, and I'm glad we don't use those in smartphones! Their power/density ratio was not the best anyway, lol.

Secondly, your battery is not getting a break when you charge with the wire. There is power flowing into it if it's charging, regardless if the battery is also giving power to the phone. The only time the battery gets a break is when it's turned off and not charging. And for the record, if you are going to not use a phone for a while, do not charge it all the way. li-Ion/Li-pol batteries "sleep" best when they are between 50% and 70%.

The things about wireless charging that do affect battery life? Excess heat, and excess top off cycles. Charging a battery produces heat, and inductive charging adds it's own heat to the process. Lithium cells don't like excess heat, and it shortens their lifespan. The excess top off cycles are a result of wireless charging being convenient: "Hey, here's a pad! Why not top off?"... even if it's for the 10th time that day. So what's the problem with that? Normal battery voltage for these cells is 3.7 volts. Topping it off pushes it up to 4.25 volts for most Androids, 4.28 volts for iPhones. Keeping the battery voltage that high all the time reduces the battery lifespan. Leaving the phone on the charging pad (or plugged in) overnight also causes the phone to cycle though charge/drain/charge cycles through the night. It will not damage the battery, but the cycling does flow more power through the cell, and that does affect battery life span. It's ok once in a while, but it's not something you want to do EVERY night.

So how do you avoid the issues and help your battery to live a longer useful life? Use wired charging if it's not too inconvenient. Don't bother charging your phone until it's below 40%. Take it off the charger it about 10 or 20 minutes after it reaches 100%, or use a power bank which automatically disconnects when the phone is charged. Battery drain is at it's lowest when the phone is just resting in standby, so having it spend the night off the charger and waking up to the phone being at 99 or 98%, is far healthier than forcing it to stay on the charger all night to gain a measly 2%. It's been my experience that phone get longer battery life during the day when treated like this, and the battery's total lifespan is improved. My retired HTC M8 is over three years old and can still make it a full day on one charge.

Please note that I'm not saying wireless charging is evil and should be avoided at all cost. Use it if you need to, but just don't abuse it!

 

[hotdog108]

So physics and chemistry doesn't apply?

 

[eckndu]

Let’s move on.

 

[harpo1]

Just upgraded the firmware to the latest and plugged it in as a USB DAC and it shows up as an EarStudio USB DAC. I own the ES100 as well. Not sure why this is happening since the BTR3 is suppose to be plug and play. Anyone have any ideas?

 

[Darkestred]

How

Just upgraded the firmware to the latest and plugged it in as a USB DAC and it shows up as an EarStudio USB DAC. I own the ES100 as well. Not sure why this is happening since the BTR3 is suppose to be plug and play. Anyone have any ideas?

Where did you upgrade from? The link from here: http://fiio-file.fiio.net/BTR3/BTR3_firmware-0912.zip when i open the file shows just a .dfu. I am currently stuck in DFU mode because Windows 7 drivers failed upon connecting the device. So, i guess i have a brick or hopefully when the battery dies. I will be able to power this device on. Currently, I have no way of getting out of DFU mode . I've tried all various button presses and holds. Waiting for Fiio to respond in Firmware thread/email.

A few minutes after posting this i was able to get out of DFU mode. Not sure what button presses did what.

 

[Ggroch]

.....A few minutes after posting this i was able to get out of DFU mode. Not sure what button presses did what.

Glad to hear you got it reset. If I remember right it happened to me...and disconnecting from USB and then doing the reset (holding the power button down for 10 seconds) solved it. But I am not sure exactly.

The best firmware link to use for people just joining this discussion is this one: https://www.fiio.com/newsinfo/84403.html?tdsourcetag=s_pctim_aiomsg because it includes not only the download link...but also the upgrade tool link and instructions on how to do it.

It still took me 2 tries.

 

[Darkestred]

Glad to hear you got it reset. If I remember right it happened to me...and disconnecting from USB and then doing the reset (holding the power button down for 10 seconds) solved it. But I am not sure exactly.

The best firmware link to use for people just joining this discussion is this one: https://www.fiio.com/newsinfo/84403.html?tdsourcetag=s_pctim_aiomsg because it includes not only the download link...but also the upgrade tool link and instructions on how to do it.

It still took me 2 tries.

Yeah. I did power down and a few other buttons for awhile. Thank you for the link. Ahh. Same link. I just now noticed the upgrade tool link.

 

[alphak]

Glad to hear you got it reset. If I remember right it happened to me...and disconnecting from USB and then doing the reset (holding the power button down for 10 seconds) solved it. But I am not sure exactly.

The best firmware link to use for people just joining this discussion is this one: https://www.fiio.com/newsinfo/84403.html?tdsourcetag=s_pctim_aiomsg because it includes not only the download link...but also the upgrade tool link and instructions on how to do it.

It still took me 2 tries.

yep can confirm this works, very seamless in win 10, took about 5 min all told.

Battery life seems to be roughly around the 10-11 hr mark whether I use SBC or HD - LDAC, I assumed using a lower codec will save battery but I guess not! Still pretty solid for a wireless device that's as tiny as it is!

Thinking of getting a plastic "screen" protector for the glass, don't want it ruined by accidental bumps etc, the whole build really feels extremely premium, glass front, matte finished body and metal back clip, solid combination of materials!

 

[MarkF786]

This product seems half-baked; they're releasing firmware updates, but the process for updating it is flawed in many ways, for example:

- The support information and downloads seems amateurish; more like a discussion forum that support pages.
- Apparently there's no support for doing firmware updates from Macs.
- Apparently VMWare Fusion doesn't work either.
- There's no guidance offered for when the firmware update doesn't work.
- The device gets stuck in DFU mode for some unknown interval of time. Who knows when it will reset, if there's any way to force it to reset, etc. In my attempts to flash it, sometimes it would exit DFU mode while I was still attempting to flash it, other times I'd have to way 15-30 minutes for it to exit.

On the other hand, the ES100 is easy to update, both on Windows and Mac, with the firmware easy to find on their website, and the instructions well written. What a world of difference in quality of support.

Sure, the BTR3 feels more solid - but so far nothing about the support seems solid.

 

[KKFA]

Glad to hear you got it reset. If I remember right it happened to me...and disconnecting from USB and then doing the reset (holding the power button down for 10 seconds) solved it. But I am not sure exactly.

The best firmware link to use for people just joining this discussion is this one: https://www.fiio.com/newsinfo/84403.html?tdsourcetag=s_pctim_aiomsg because it includes not only the download link...but also the upgrade tool link and instructions on how to do it.

It still took me 2 tries.

Hi, I just got by BTR3. Will this latest batch already have the new firmware? If it does will flashing it again damage it? Btw how do we check what firmware version as there seems to have no indication.

Also pairing it with my Samsung S8 is flawless but does not seem to play well with my Hiby R6. Anyone here has the similar issues? I will ask in the Hiby R6 thread as well

Thanks.

 

[Ggroch]

Hi, I just got by BTR3. Will this latest batch already have the new firmware? If it does will flashing it again damage it? Btw how do we check what firmware version as there seems to have no indication.

Also pairing it with my Samsung S8 is flawless but does not seem to play well with my Hiby R6. Anyone here has the similar issues? I will ask in the Hiby R6 thread as well
Thanks.

The latest firmware is dated 09/12...so my guess is yours probably does not have it, but reflashing will not damage it. I expect that when the Fiio Music App is updated to support the BTR3 that it will report the firmware (and hopefully provide an easier way to update it). I know of no way to find out the current firmware until they update the app.

I see the Hiby R6 uses Bluetooth 4.0 with aptx (not HD or LL). So, it should work fine. Perhaps updating the BTR3 firmware or making sure the Hiby R6 is also up do date. will help. No other ideas.

 

[KKFA]

The latest firmware is dated 09/12...so my guess is yours probably does not have it, but reflashing will not damage it. I expect that when the Fiio Music App is updated to support the BTR3 that it will report the firmware (and hopefully provide an easier way to update it). I know of no way to find out the current firmware until they update the app.

I see the Hiby R6 uses Bluetooth 4.0 with aptx (not HD or LL). So, it should work fine. Perhaps updating the BTR3 firmware or making sure the Hiby R6 is also up do date. will help. No other ideas.

Thanks I just updated the BTR3 to the new firmware. My R6 is up to date but still no dice. It will show connected, plays around 20 seconds than no sound though the song is still playing on the player.

I got the BTR3 primarily to use with my S8 so that connects and plays without issue but still cannot force it to optimize to LDAC it always goes to adaptive connection. At least I can live with it.

The R6 I use mainly wired or as a transport to my home system but still it irks that there is such an issue with the Bluetooth.

I hope there are more suggestions or methods to cure this issue

Thanks.