[krude]

After much delay, I just finished my own personal shootout between the Oor stack and the Enleum 23R for Susvaras, now that I've given the Enleum well over 100 hours of break-in time.... Honestly, the Enleum didn't sound discernably different to me than when it had just been broken in for about 50 hours. It's a fine sounding amp, and for some kinds of music it might be preferable, but for me personally with the kind of music I listen to in my system chain, the Oor stack has it all over the Enleum for my Susvaras (haven't comparatively tested my other 2 headphones yet); no value judgements here, the Enleum might be considered a bit smoother sounding, and it has a warm-ish, pleasing sound that I did not find hyper-detailed; might go good with jazz, vocals, etc - in fact, I slightly preferred vocals on the Enleum; you can certainly listen to it for long periods of time.

The Enleum glides but the Oor stack rocks, it was more visceral for me and it gave me some sub-bass on the Susvaras on some reggae tracks that the Enleum did not. But somebody else might think just the opposite - it's all good! - so give a listen yourself if you get a chance - both are enjoyable.

The Oor stack let me hear all the layers that were in the mixes with the kind of clarity and detail and staging and dynamics and texture that I like in my favored genres, rock and reggae, better than the Enleum did for me. I do want to try the Enleum in my 2-channel system just to see how it sounds, but it's likely I'll put it up for sale before long so it can find a more appropriate home. Now I need to do a compare between the Oor stack and the Auris Nirvana with Susvara.

Also there's no denying that you could get 2 great amps for the money (although I rarely discuss money in this hobby) and have 2 great quality sound signatures.

 

[Sajid Amit]

After much delay, I just finished my own personal shootout between the Oor stack and the Enleum 23R for Susvaras, now that I've given the Enleum well over 100 hours of break-in time.... Honestly, the Enleum didn't sound discernably different to me than when it had just been broken in for about 50 hours. It's a fine sounding amp, and for some kinds of music it might be preferable, but for me personally with the kind of music I listen to in my system chain, the Oor stack has it all over the Enleum for my Susvaras (haven't comparatively tested my other 2 headphones yet); no value judgements here, the Enleum might be considered a bit smoother sounding, and it has a warm-ish, pleasing sound that I did not find hyper-detailed; might go good with jazz, vocals, etc - in fact, I slightly preferred vocals on the Enleum; you can certainly listen to it for long periods of time.

The Enleum glides but the Oor stack rocks, it was more visceral for me and it gave me some sub-bass on the Susvaras on some reggae tracks that the Enleum did not. But somebody else might think just the opposite - it's all good! - so give a listen yourself if you get a chance - both are enjoyable.

The Oor stack let me hear all the layers that were in the mixes with the kind of clarity and detail and staging and dynamics and texture that I like in my favored genres, rock and reggae, better than the Enleum did for me. I do want to try the Enleum in my 2-channel system just to see how it sounds, but it's likely I'll put it up for sale before long so it can find a more appropriate home. Now I need to do a compare between the Oor stack and the Auris Nirvana with Susvara.

Nice impressions!

 

[Arkitecc]

I’ll stick with my planars. The 600 series still has that “veil” sound even on my gear. I still prefer most of my other headphones to these.

Edit: If any I would probably buy a 660S seeing I did love the HD 700.

I prefer planars myself overall, but for someone who has had to sell their higher end gear at the moment to get some funds back, my point was that going back to the HD 650 was still enjoyable to me.

I have tried this and can second this.

Cool to hear that I'm not the only one who has had a chance try out this combo so far, haha!

 

[LarsMan]

Usually 'texture' doesn't exist in music or in a good setup. It's actually micro distortion mistakenly seen as detail and texture. Enleum may be the better one here.

How do you happen to know exactly what I mean when I say 'texture'? For me, It's like a photograph with more clarity and detail and contrast, but it's sonic instead of visual, and I am a photographer and know whereof I speak.

 

[hypnos1]

Guys. "Texture" must surely be one of the most nebulous terms used by folks in the realm of trying to describe sound in a way that can bring any kind of possible concensus. Especially as it traditionally relates to material/solids lol! And so there's bound to be a myriad different interpretations put on such a term. Head-fi's attempt, as in their "Describing Sound - a - Glossary", reads : "A perceptible pattern or structure in reproduced sound". I'm sure there are many who would still interpret this in a wide variety of ways!! I’m

And this also applies of course to many of the other terms we use ad hoc in our attempts at describing what enters our ears and brain...usually heavily influenced by their highly subjective nature! But thankfully at least we're spared the even more - EDIT...UNintelligible verbosity rampant in the world of ART lol

 

[801evan]

How do you happen to know exactly what I mean when I say 'texture'? For me, It's like a photograph with more clarity and detail and contrast, but it's sonic instead of visual, and I am a photographer and know whereof I speak.

Based on your past posts, you have the MacBook as a transport still and you have it set to high gain on the ORR? That usually is a combo of high noise floor (transport) and distortion (via high gain). How does the ORR sound on unity gain compared to the 23R? Granted I don't know what gain setting you use on the 23r but if a smoother 23r is being compared to another amp that is on high gain then the latter will seemingly exhibit more detail and more punch. Add to the fact that I'm having difficulty getting good blacks on the Hypsos and how it has a hard time settling down, I will agree you will find the Ferrum stack sounding better but that's because of the Ferrum's higher noise floor and higher distortion. Your description on the 23r of being smooth,lesser detail and I assume, lesser dynamics shows that it is an amp with lower distortion and it's lower noise floor has the music signal being eaten up by the noise floor of the other components. Also add to the fact many people are saying the susvara doesn't have bass!?!? Susvara has amazing sub bass density and extension and that's on the stock HP cable on my end and it's just on an ifi diablo low gain, Dave (which ppl say is inadequate), Hugo 2 and modded Phonitor One.

Also with the MacBook running on battery, it will have a slower sound. So the 23r WILL sound wanting on detail, while the high distortion on the ORR will seemingly sound more correct. That's my suspect on the one user with the tt2 coz the tt2 has a very thicc midbass and syrupy sound if with the stock smps so a higher voltage may help balance it out. But that's a hunch on that one coz I hope the ORR is ideal on 24v so I can pair it with an ifi elite 24v instead.

Meanwhile, for the likes of chargedcapacitor and speaker amp users, just because they couldn't get bass out of their Susvaras they think no one else can??

 

[LarsMan]

Based on your past posts, you have the MacBook as a transport still and you have it set to high gain on the ORR? That usually is a combo of high noise floor (transport) and distortion (via high gain). How does the ORR sound on unity gain compared to the 23R? Granted I don't know what gain setting you use on the 23r but if a smoother 23r is being compared to another amp that is on high gain then the latter will seemingly exhibit more detail and more punch. Add to the fact that I'm having difficulty getting good blacks on the Hypsos and how it has a hard time settling down, I will agree you will find the Ferrum stack sounding better but that's because of the Ferrum's higher noise floor and higher distortion. Your description on the 23r of being smooth,lesser detail and I assume, lesser dynamics shows that it is an amp with lower distortion and it's lower noise floor has the music signal being eaten up by the noise floor of the other components. Also add to the fact many people are saying the susvara doesn't have bass!?!? Susvara has amazing sub bass density and extension and that's on the stock HP cable on my end and it's just on an ifi diablo low gain, Dave (which ppl say is inadequate), Hugo 2 and modded Phonitor One.

Also with the MacBook running on battery, it will have a slower sound. So the 23r WILL sound wanting on detail, while the high distortion on the ORR will seemingly sound more correct. That's my suspect on the one user with the tt2 coz the tt2 has a very thicc midbass and syrupy sound if with the stock smps so a higher voltage may help balance it out. But that's a hunch on that one coz I hope the ORR is ideal on 24v so I can pair it with an ifi elite 24v instead.

Meanwhile, for the likes of chargedcapacitor and speaker amp users, just because they couldn't get bass out of their Susvaras they think no one else can??

Hi there Evan - yes, using the MacBook as transport (not using battery, plugged into my power conditioner), with high-gain on the Oor; I did use the high-gain setting (V2) on the 23R as well. I turn the gain knob as needed or adjust the volume on the DAC - same MSB DAC at same settings into both amps.

I'm using Black Dragon XLR cables for all my headphones.

I've had Hugo 2 and DAVE and M Scaler, but I sold 'em all - I guess I'm just not a fan of the overall Chord sound.

I won't argue distortion and all the other failings of my audio chain - I don't care and I just want what sounds best to me. If 'distortion' sounds better to me, that's what I want; I do also use tube amps, after all, the whole point of them being the pleasing 'distortion' they provide. That's also why I never look at measurements unless I need to see whether something will be compatible - otherwise, I'll trust my ears and brain on what sounds best to me over an oscilliscope. I'm obviously no fan of ASR, but I'm glad they're there for people for whom that is important.

I do agree with you about the Susvara delivering sub-bass. It's not an Abyss 1266, but if it's on the source, I hear it and feel it.

I've got tinnitus, so noise floor is meaningless to me unless it's so bad I can actually hear the noise floor, as happened with one tube amp I'd bought and I had to return it. No other amp I've ever had, tube or SS, has ever had that problem. 'Black background' is obviously a non-issue for me as well.

 

[801evan]

Hi there Evan - yes, using the MacBook as transport (not using battery, plugged into my power conditioner), with high-gain on the Oor; I did use the high-gain setting (V2) on the 23R as well. I turn the gain knob as needed or adjust the volume on the DAC - same MSB DAC at same settings into both amps.

I'm using Black Dragon XLR cables for all my headphones.

I've had Hugo 2 and DAVE and M Scaler, but I sold 'em all - I guess I'm just not a fan of the overall Chord sound.

I won't argue distortion and all the other failings of my audio chain - I don't care and I just want what sounds best to me. If 'distortion' sounds better to me, that's what I want; I do also use tube amps, after all, the whole point of them being the pleasing 'distortion' they provide. That's also why I never look at measurements unless I need to see whether something will be compatible - otherwise, I'll trust my ears and brain on what sounds best to me over an oscilliscope. I'm obviously no fan of ASR, but I'm glad they're there for people for whom that is important.

I do agree with you about the Susvara delivering sub-bass. It's not an Abyss 1266, but if it's on the source, I hear it and feel it.

I've got tinnitus, so noise floor is meaningless to me unless it's so bad I can actually hear the noise floor, as happened with one tube amp I'd bought and I had to return it. No other amp I've ever had, tube or SS, has ever had that problem. 'Black background' is obviously a non-issue for me as well.

Well the point is, more so with ppl with tinnitus, is not caring for a low noise floor will create a chain where high gain is the only route to sound good and other settings that add distortion. The downside is the extra excess energy that resides in the mids and up. Having a lower noise floor will calm down the excess energy by a lot and smoothen the flow of the music in a faithful way. With a high noise floor the only way to get bass out of the Susvara is to have a punchy bass via distortion.

 

[IanB52]

Based on your past posts, you have the MacBook as a transport still and you have it set to high gain on the ORR? That usually is a combo of high noise floor (transport) and distortion (via high gain). How does the ORR sound on unity gain compared to the 23R? Granted I don't know what gain setting you use on the 23r but if a smoother 23r is being compared to another amp that is on high gain then the latter will seemingly exhibit more detail and more punch. Add to the fact that I'm having difficulty getting good blacks on the Hypsos and how it has a hard time settling down, I will agree you will find the Ferrum stack sounding better but that's because of the Ferrum's higher noise floor and higher distortion. Your description on the 23r of being smooth,lesser detail and I assume, lesser dynamics shows that it is an amp with lower distortion and it's lower noise floor has the music signal being eaten up by the noise floor of the other components. Also add to the fact many people are saying the susvara doesn't have bass!?!? Susvara has amazing sub bass density and extension and that's on the stock HP cable on my end and it's just on an ifi diablo low gain, Dave (which ppl say is inadequate), Hugo 2 and modded Phonitor One.

Also with the MacBook running on battery, it will have a slower sound. So the 23r WILL sound wanting on detail, while the high distortion on the ORR will seemingly sound more correct. That's my suspect on the one user with the tt2 coz the tt2 has a very thicc midbass and syrupy sound if with the stock smps so a higher voltage may help balance it out. But that's a hunch on that one coz I hope the ORR is ideal on 24v so I can pair it with an ifi elite 24v instead.

Meanwhile, for the likes of chargedcapacitor and speaker amp users, just because they couldn't get bass out of their Susvaras they think no one else can??

You are making some incorrect assumptions: Amp 23r has high levels of harmonic distortion (>.25% THD) and a not extremely low noise floor, while the Oor measures very low for both noise and distortion.

 

[801evan]

You are making some incorrect assumptions: Amp 23r has high levels of harmonic distortion (>.25% THD) and a not extremely low noise floor, while the Oor measures very low for both noise and distortion.

Yet Hypsos is quite underwhelming on the blacks....

 

[LarsMan]

Well the point is, more so with ppl with tinnitus, is not caring for a low noise floor will create a chain where high gain is the only route to sound good and other settings that add distortion. The downside is the extra excess energy that resides in the mids and up. Having a lower noise floor will calm down the excess energy by a lot and smoothen the flow of the music in a faithful way. With a high noise floor the only way to get bass out of the Susvara is to have a punchy bass via distortion.

Good points, I guess, but it's looking more like I'll be selling both the Oor stack as well as the 23R, now that my curiosity has been satisfied, and going back to my Auris Nirvana tube amp to drive my Susvaras. Tube or not tube....

 

[hypnos1]

Yet Hypsos is quite underwhelming on the blacks....

Evan...perhaps you should qualify that as in your system. In my own, I have the blackest, totally 'noise'-free background one could ever realistically hope for lol And that goes not just for any obvious noise per se, but the - once again nebulous kind that is attributed to having a negative effect on sound reproduction...more on this subject to follow...

 

[IanB52]

Yet Hypsos is quite underwhelming on the blacks....

I don't own it, but I've found you can get deep blacks with clean power, cabling, and tuning fuses on most gear.

Some amps also have a very noticeable black background in spite of higher noise because some of the air and treble are rolled off. I find this true with the Enleum and also LTA MZ3.

 

[hypnos1]

In the vein of a previous post I made on the difficult-to-interpret term "texture" in sound, similar problems arise with "noise/floor" and "distortion", which can also be very misleading terms indeed.

When relating to the negative effects upon the reproduction of tones/overtones/harmonics in the FR, this is a veritable minefield as to the precise factors as cause, and their degree within the mix...viz equipment components' (including cables and connectors) levels of inductance/conductance/capacitance/impedance. And when you factor in what resides in one's mains supply and the environment's pervasive EMI/RFI interference, the task of even just searching for it let alone quantifying and reducing it is a mammoth one to say the least lol!

In addition, there's often little correlation between (questionable) instrument measurement of values and what we actually hear/perceive/interpret.

Therefore, all this interplay is going to make trying to pin down any 'alteration' in sound to a specific component's 'noise floor' or degree of 'distortion' a very murky undertaking indeed.

I submit that this also applies to statements such as re. voltage/current levels exchanged between components. I personally believe this area is much more complex than may at first appear...for example 801evan's mention of higher voltage increasing distortion did at first seem to explain the occasional slight edginess induced in my TT2/mscaler-fed Hypsos/OOR combo with Hypsos at 28V instead of 24V - this latter 'recommended' level giving a rather flat, lifeless presentation in my system. HOWEVER, replacing the (extremely good) 2.5mm DC connection with my own version of the 4 pin 'FPL' - still at 28V, removed any excess entirely.

And by the same token, using OOR's 'bypass' function, thereby outputting at max volume, one would expect this type of 'distortion' to perhaps result to a certain degree?...but no, the opposite in fact - a bass-washed, poorly balanced, lacklustre sound. One could argue that the necessary lower output from TT2 had a part to play, but this interplay also would appear to show IMHO that complex nature of exchange between components I mentioned earlier.

So, my point is that I believe we all need to be extremely careful when making statements on so many of the aspects of sound reproduction to which we love to apply such open-to-discussion, often misleading/misconstruable 'audiophile(?!) terms.

Sorry for any indigestion I may have caused...

 

[hypnos1]

I don't own it, but I've found you can get deep blacks with clean power, cabling, and tuning fuses on most gear.

Some amps also have a very noticeable black background in spite of higher noise because some of the air and treble are rolled off. I find this true with the Enleum and also LTA MZ3.

Hi Ian...not the slightest hint of that in my own Hypsos/OOR combo setup, glad to say...