[hypnos1]

Have to agree with CJ. When you buy from an authorized dealer you often pay a few dollars more for them, if you look for a dealer that Burns in his power to choose and test them after burn and and matches them up so you know that hes checking the tube and writing down the qualifications on the tube it may cost you a little bit more but it will save you a lot more in the long run. Using the KT66 and the KT88 that I purchased from upscale audio I have not had one hint of trouble with them. Plus I know the tubes were checked and burned in and guaranteed. Upscale audio in the US is 1 of the largest tube distributors in the country. The to manufacturers know that when he orders in large number of tubes that he is going to go through each and every 1 of them and any badd tube is going to go back if he finds the manufacture that sends too many bed tubes through he won't buy from them anymore. He is an artist and easy to deal with distributor and I found over the last year that he is honest and does what he says his word means something. Plus you have to figure Felix audio trusted him to be his US distributor. They had to do a little bit of checking to get that up. But good luck, any time you buy a pig in a poke you get what you get

Well said cf...the more I ruminate on that JAC article re. the KT88, as far as I'm concerned it raises almost as many questions as answers given lol!

For example, there's no mention whatsoever of performance details and/or comparison between different makes of tube. And as for boldly stating that the GU50 is 'better' than the (GEC) KT88 anyway - again with no mention that this will depend greatly upon each individual amp's circuit design and quality of construction, I'm afraid this sort of thing leaves me less than impressed! I have indeed seen some positive reviews from DIYers re. the GU50, but also an aficionado who was comparing this with the 300b and who stated the KT88 performed 'better' (than the GU50). So as usual, not so cut and dried lol!

Plus, his own rubbishing of the Russian reissue Gold Lion contradicts the findings of a good many users, as mentioned previously...not to mention us here!!

Then there's the vexed question of the meanderings/ramifications re. the demise of the Svetlana/Saratov/Reflektor factories...especially when the New Sensor Corp became involved. The whole sorry saga would appear to be far more convoluted/complex than the JAC article would have us believe...again, a case of incomplete reporting that doesn't impress me either I'm afraid.

And so once again, my personal advice to folks is to do one's own research - as extensively as possible - into different sources of information related to any particular item, be it tubes or amps lol! And then, most important of all...trust your own ears...regardless of what anyone else says!!!

ps. @mordy , given the GU50 might just be an interesting tube to try, and I'll have my 12V heater supply ready, their peanuts cost has tempted me to see what they're about...but thought I'd finished with this tube journey to tell the truth!! Ah well, what can one do lol??!! ...CJ

Edit : pps. This experiment should be doubly interesting, given that if the GU50 is indeed "better than the KT88", I'm sure a good few KT88 lovers (and there's obviously many of them lol) would be keen to try the dirt cheap GU50 and save themselves hundreds of pounds/dollars...especially as different biasing would be easy on many of the amps used and (cheap) converters readily made to order from China??...time will tell...

 

[connieflyer]

His statement and the way he couches it, makes me suspect. "These cannot directly replace KT88, because the bias setting is another, and also the sockets are another type. " Sockets are also different, exactly how different, is it the pin out of spacing or dialectic or what? I read the whole article and it would seem to be kind of negative over all. I dealt with Jac Music years ago and was not impressed with customer service. With Upscale Audio, Kevin Deal got back to me with answers in a few days. One of the questions I had asked he had to get further information about and told me so. Good man to deal with. From his quotes.."Every power tube is different. This applies especially to power tubes like EL34, 6550, KT88’s, etc. Two tubes can be brand new in the original box, with one testing at [as an example] 6500 micromhos, the next one at 8600 micromhos. Both tubes would be considered "new" by the factory, and not defective. While the weaker tube isn’t "defective," it will certainly have a shorter life. So if you pay 10% less, you might get a tube with a significantly shorter life. The big lie from manufacturers of tube equipment and tube dealers themselves is that they “reject” these tubes. It’s not true. You can imagine the nightmare that would create for the tube factory if people are sending back 50% - 80% of the tubes that get shipped, coming back in all kinds of condition.

As the owner of Upscale Audio, a company that has supplied tubes into over 50,000 components, and someone obsessed with treating your amp like it’s my amp, I can tell you in no uncertain terms the factory doesn’t take them back. The only tubes they will take back are tubes that have shorts, gas, or measure BELOW the minimum number they assign for that tube type (it varies from type to type, so don’t bother trying to figure that out).

I’ve overcome that issue for you. I can say with calm assurance that we pay the factories more for our tubes than any other tube seller, and we ensure that we receive the absolute cream of the crop. This flies against the logic of how to run a business: The way you make money is to pay less for the goods you sell! That’s what most ANY business owner will tell you. We also don’t sell certain brands of tubes because while they might be cheap and sometimes good, they can be more trouble than they're worth. We pass on a lot of money as a result.

Upscale Audio is the only dealer that does what we do on a grand scale, and have a deep understanding of high end tube electronics. We’re the only dealer that manufacturers give a thumbs-up to, and recommend to their customers. And I promise you only the best.

- Kevin Deal " My kind of guy to deal with. Pay a little more, you get what you pay for.

 

[LoryWiv]

Have to agree with CJ. When you buy from an authorized dealer you often pay a few dollars more for them, if you look for a dealer that Burns in his power to choose and test them after burn and and matches them up so you know that hes checking the tube and writing down the qualifications on the tube it may cost you a little bit more but it will save you a lot more in the long run. Using the KT66 and the KT88 that I purchased from upscale audio I have not had one hint of trouble with them. Plus I know the tubes were checked and burned in and guaranteed. Upscale audio in the US is 1 of the largest tube distributors in the country. The to manufacturers know that when he orders in large number of tubes that he is going to go through each and every 1 of them and any badd tube is going to go back if he finds the manufacture that sends too many bed tubes through he won't buy from them anymore. He is an artist and easy to deal with distributor and I found over the last year that he is honest and does what he says his word means something. Plus you have to figure Felix audio trusted him to be his US distributor. They had to do a little bit of checking to get that up. But good luck, any time you buy a pig in a poke you get what you get

Concur, @connieflyer. Indeed, Upscale Audio initially put a hold on my GL KT77 order because I specified it was for use in Elise, which of course isn't compatible w/o adapters. I explained that I understood this and tubes are now on the way. Ethan and Kevin were honest and transparent with me about warranty implications, and after my initial frustration, reason took over I recognized they are doing exactly what they should: communicating clearly and honestly with the customer rather than just making a quick sale. I have even greater respect now for Upscale and Kevin's integrity and honest business practices. Definitely worth a few dollars more.

 

[connieflyer]

I think that is what a distributor should do. Inquiry "might" cost a sale, but could save some gear, and goes far toward customer service and loyalty

 

[DecentLevi]

@hypnos1 One of my EL39's all of a sudden stopped lighting up. I thought that was quite strange since I didn't notice any gradual tube life decay. I narrowed the problem down to a faulty adapter, since the said tube worked with the other adapter, and said adapter worked with neither tube. I cleaned the sockets out and bent the sockets inward (tried twice) to improve clamping force, made sure the top cap was on snugly, even tried the good one without top connected and confirmed this wasn't the issue since it would still light up without the top connection... Hey Hypnos you didn't do hypnosis on EL39 now did you?

Really strange how an adapter could die out of the blue even when it wasn't moving. Nevertheless your work is immaculate so no disrespect whatsoever on your fine work, this seems more like a fluke. I don't think I can open it with the glue you have in it. Maybe you have any way to mod the EL38 adapter from Xuling to make it work for EL39? Something that can hopefully be done without a soldering iron. I've got plyres, glue and wires at least. Those EL38's are basically obsolete with with 39's anyway... and for the KT88 route I'm not sure to take this on yet, with the performance I'm already getting from unorthodox combos.

PS - if you'd like I will delete this and send by PM

 

[hypnos1]

Hi @DecentLevi ...that's a strange one indeed as I do try to make sure all connections are permanent, with solder joints sealed in epoxy resin (apart from the pin ends of course!). I can only think that somehow or other a heater pin solder has failed, which could be tested for continuity with a multimeter to find which one is the culprit and if so resoldered. If this is beyond you or you have no-one you can call on to help out then by all means please return it to me (at my cost) and I'll remedy it, no problem...CHEERS!...CJ

ps. Unfortunately the way Mrsx has configured the EL38 adapter means it can't be modified to take the EL39, unlike my own......

 

[connieflyer]

Well, I wonder if the adapter failure, was due in part to his constant tube meanderings, and some of the ridiculous tube and adapter combinations he tries to make it seem like he has a Eureka! moment. I have had your adapters a lot longer, and many, many more including tube surgeries and have never had one fail. And in good faith you even offer to fix this for him, at your expense, is over and above. I don't know of any distributor that would cover shipping that way. Even when I received my Euforia, it took box damage, I took photos, and showed the preamp out sockets were bent, even Feliks agreed to have me send it all the way back to Poland, at my expense, and they would fix it and return at their expense. But I had to pay the way back at least. You Sir, are above and beyond, in your ability and helpfulness. Sorry this has happened. It surely was the wrong way to address a problem at the start. Really poor taste, and lousy judgement.

 

[DecentLevi]

Ever since receiving the GEC KT66's I've settled on two top power combos and roll tubes very rarely anymore so I don't really think your assertation of constant tube swapping seems the culprit here. Also any other presumptuous descriptors like above would completely fall to the wayside if you were to actually listen to my unconventional setups and hear the improvement, as well as see how my entire system remains in pristine condition after all this time. The adapter also had the same problem with a conventional setup.

H1 / Colin I got your PM and will continue it there after a bit. No biggie I would cover shipping cost anyway just in case somehow a fault could have been on my end.

 

[teknorob23]

It’s been a long 5 weeks

 

[Scutey]

Looking good!, and how does it sound?.

ps, If you're trying to make us jealous you might well be succeeding! .

 

[teknorob23]

Looking good!, and how does it sound?.

ps, If you're trying to make us jealous you might well be succeeding! .

Both tubes and amp have been out of their respective boxes for about 4 hours and i've just sat down not for my first gentle listen. First off its all quiet on the western front in terms of errant noise, which is a big relief. Sound-wise, there's so much "new" going on here. i've not heard these tubes before, i only listened to the amp for an hour and my old Euforia sold the day i ordered, BUT even box-fresh together tubes and amp sound pretty good and compared to straight out of the Hugo2, its lovely to have all this headroom back, stage is deep/wide, bass is surprisingly together and extended considering the newness. The mids and treble all there but are definitely in need some time to open up and sweeten.

I'm sorry and i know i'm not in for much sympathy here , but as first world problems go, being without a Euforia , while having four shiny KT88's burning holes in their boxes and reading daily about how great they are, has been pretty torturous

 

[Scutey]

Sounds like exciting times ahead @teknorob23 , all you need to do now is lock yourself away for a few weeks and soak up that new amp! .

 

[Johnnysound]

Yes indeed LW...regardless of any criticism that might be aimed at the Genalex Gold Lion KT88s, I myself am finding them extremely good and have no qualms about them whatsoever lol .
After @Johnnysound 's mention of the reissue KT77 being closer to the original than the new 88 is, on further examination of their plates those of the KT77 certainly do look much closer to the original...both being more solid (ie. no holes).. By contrast, all the reissue KT88s appear to have plates with holes, as opposed to the original GECs being solid. It would appear therefore that perhaps no original GEC plates were available for the new production teams, but on looking around it seems to me that the round-holed plates of the Russian Gold Lions might possibly be American stock from the RCA 6550...they look identical to me. And if so, this would be no bad thing, given the traditional respect for the 6550 tube.
Whatever, I personally still rate the Russian reissue GL very highly indeed...

Now then guys, I have some news that might just be of interest to those who may want to take the KT88 route that bit further, and reinforces @Scutey 's admiration of the original GEC KT tubes...but this time re. the 88.

I have now given my 3x GEC TT21s a good long test run, and am pleased to say that firstly, as a driver pair to Gold Lion KT88 powers the difference is not minimal. To begin with, I thought 'not bad' but not night and day difference. However, as time passed with more varied test pieces I began to notice improvements in more and more areas...ie. in overall presentation; tonal range; more textured bass; even sweeter treble (but still detailed); even more mids detail...(actually, more detail across the entire FR); even tighter control of the timing and pace. Indeed, with regard to PRaT one of the greatest surprises came with very fast runs of instrument and drums...I wasn't just carried along as if by an Express train, this was Japanese Bullet Train! It was all I could do to keep up, and there was no hint of loss of control or detail. All these aspects, especially the last went up a tad more with the third TT21 in one of the power slots.

I suppose one could call the overall sound a typical 'British' one...but of the highest quality category - ie. smoooth; refined; detailed; not clinical; low fatigue; well balanced with excellent cohesion and precise positioning. And add to this a soundstage to match anything else out there IMHO....(depending upon the rest of one's system of course!). Plus, although very smooth in the bass department also, it's in no way boomy/loose...on the contrary, it is deep; solid; controlled and well textured...with similar qualities also in the superb mids which again are in no way 'bloomy' as far as I'm concerned lol

And so as drivers to the Gold Lion KT88s these GEC TT21s are simply superb...and given these are basically the GEC KT88 but with top anode cap, I suspect the latter must sound pretty well the same, even if the TT21 may have the slight edge!

Anyway, enough for now, better go keep the better half company...so BFN folks. And another pic to show the current state of affairs...which will alter slightly when my GEC KT22 (Edit - TT22!) arrives (a 12V version of the 21), and which should prove very interesting in place of the lone GL KT88!!


Enjoy the rest of your weekend guys...CJ

As GEC KT88 reproductions go, this Shuggie GEKT88 ( GE for GEC) looks like the most accurate with solid plates and triple getters, and not by looks alone...reviews are really good. And you can get a quad for less than the price of a single (used) original...

 

[hypnos1]

Both tubes and amp have been out of their respective boxes for about 4 hours and i've just sat down not for my first gentle listen. First off its all quiet on the western front in terms of errant noise, which is a big relief. Sound-wise, there's so much "new" going on here. i've not heard these tubes before, i only listened to the amp for an hour and my old Euforia sold the day i ordered, BUT even box-fresh together tubes and amp sound pretty good and compared to straight out of the Hugo2, its lovely to have all this headroom back, stage is deep/wide, bass is surprisingly together and extended considering the newness. The mids and treble all there but are definitely in need some time to open up and sweeten.

I'm sorry and i know i'm not in for much sympathy here , but as first world problems go, being without a Euforia , while having four shiny KT88's burning holes in their boxes and reading daily about how great they are, has been pretty torturous

Hi tr...and congrats on waiting so long in patience (lol???!! )...and with a smidgeon of sympathy from us at least - if not envy!! But wasn't it worthwhile...she looks a beauty. And once she, and those KT88s have burned in a good bit, I'm sure you're in for a real treat ...WELL DONE!...Looking forward to progress reports in due course...orders!! ...CJ

 

[hypnos1]

As GEC KT88 reproductions go, this Shuggie GEKT88 ( GE for GEC) looks like the most accurate with solid plates and triple getters, and not by looks alone...reviews are really good. And you can get a quad for less than the price of a single (used) original...

Hi J. Those certainly do look interesting versions...and worth somebody giving them a try.

I'm afraid it won't be myself as the more I listen to my GEC TT21s, even though still only 3 at present, I'm already hooked on the sound from my system with these in situ...there's simply no going back now! In addition to all aspects up yet another notch from the excellent Gold Lion KT88s, there's a supreme 'polish' from these TT21s that just screams pure quality, and almost beyond words lol.

I realise I was very lucky indeed to bag these first 3 tubes for a fraction of the usual cost, along with the TT22 on its way...otherwise I could never have afforded this luxury. But I'm so impressed with these tubes that I've just blown £175 on a 4th TT21 that looks almost new, so still not too bad a price given what many GEC KT88s are going for! (Not to mention the TT21 seems to be 'the best of the best'??).

Anyway folks, all I can say is that for anyone with my EL39 adapters who's prepared to change the top cap connector for a larger one and can get lucky with a pair of these GEC TT21s at least as drivers to KT88s, then you'll have no need IMHO to break the bank for another amp...ever!!...they're that good ...CHEERS!...CJ