[hypnos1]

Hi @teknorob23 . Nice to see you've now got some EL11 adapters. All you need now are some 11s that work OK lol!...(may well be able to help out there soon, if needs be...).

The nice gold plated (pins) ceramic bases that I was waiting for arrived...but they were a different size to advertised and don't fit! Not very happy!...So now the long wait once more......

ps. It does indeed look like you have a couple of rogue 11s there, tr...with my tubes working fine, it was never really an earthing issue methinks....CHEERS!...CJ

 

[Scutey]

so is just bad luck?

tk, seem like it might be bad luck, I have 4 pair of EL11 and all of them are dead quiet, the tubes I have trouble with are EL3N, of which I have 3 pairs and all hum!.

 

[hypnos1]

Hi guys...just a quick addendum on the subject of the 'special' Mazda EL38 I've been raving about recently.

Just as the Mazda brand has 2 versions of the EL38 - one with the silver painted band, and the very different (and far better) one without - so the latter can also have a different brand name...viz. so far, I've found the exact same tube with 'MiniWatt/Dario' label. It would appear that this particular EL38 was made either on a totally different production line to all other 38s or, more likely, at a different factory...but with different labels attached. Whatever, both not only look identical, but they also sound identical...better by far than any other EL38, bar none!

So, folks, the key here is to look out for tubes that have the following appearance, regardless of label...so long as they're from the Philips FRANCE stable - 'MiniWatt/Dario'; MAZDA; RT :



Dario to the left, Mazda to the right....GOOD HUNTING!...CJ

 

[Johnnysound]

ed..

 

[DecentLevi]

The Fivre 6N7G has been a mainstay of action on other threads, at $100 /pop, though I've noticed a HUGE array of much cheaper 6N7G tubes on eBay now. You'd just need a 6N7 / VT-96 adapter to use these as drivers. For me anyway I've retired from new tubes on the Euforia.

 

[LoryWiv]

The Fivre 6N7G has been a mainstay of action on other threads, at $100 /pop, though I've noticed a HUGE array of much cheaper 6N7G tubes on eBay now. You'd just need a 6N7 / VT-96 adapter to use these as drivers. For me anyway I've retired from new tubes on the Euforia.

Any particular advantage of the 6N7G over 6SN7 in your experience in Euforia or Elise?

 

[DecentLevi]

With the black metal 6N7s I heard distinct advantages over 6SN7s - more solid dynamics and controlled bass - that is on the rare occasion it had good synergy with chosen powers and headphones. Those metal ones are picky on synergy and have distortion with many pairings. Though the 6N7Gs are a very different animal, one I have personally yet to try. Quite different being a curved ST shape rather than straight metal tube. I have heard the Visseaux 6N7 G and GT are some of the best on other threads as well like the 2359 Glenn thread. At dirt cheap prices it wouldn't hurt to try a few pairs of random types.

For me I'm more than happy with my tube compliments as far as the Euforia goes, with various multi-combos of EL39, EL32, 6BL7, EL11, GEC 6080 and 6N23P but I do say other good flavors could likely be had with the above as well.

 

[Johnnysound]

Hey @WithGumption ...forgot to ask whether your incoming EL39s are as shown below...I do hope so. These are the silver banded 'Pro gold' versions, as opposed to the earlier red banded one which is, alas, basically the 4654, and not nearly as good according to the French aficionados :



As can be seen, the internal coating may be either quite 'full' or merely 'opaque'...they both sound exactly the same.

For interest's sake, here's a comparison of an EL39 to the perplexing (still!) MAZDA EL38 (the version with no silver painted skirt and different bottle) :


RT EL39 to the left, Mazda EL38 to the right

Hi @hypnos1...I hope that some day one of those Mazdas EL38s (or RT, Darios) appear somewhere, but so far I have not seen a single one for sale...and I mean not only in fleabay, but searching multiple sites (including french ones)..nothing. Congrats for those collector pieces, they are extremely rare, in fact more so than the EL39s !! Given their unobtainable status, I am very happy with the supposedly “second best”...the early Mullards “dark glass” EL38s, which in fact are very close to the EL39s as powers...and perhaps a bit more open and lively.

And again, I am trying to draw a line between the performance of those tubes in Euforia/HP amp as opposed to Euforia/preamp, but this is not easy: having a good batch of tubes (and being dual purpose pentode/triodes) the sound of 4xEL39s or 4xEL38s in my power amp was so vastly superior to anything that I have heard before, that you just have to set up Euforia to exploit that...and this particular setup in Euforia might be different from the one for purely HP amp duties.

The awesome 4xEL39s powers took time to “loosen up” (being dark and reserved at first) but after that the quartet revealed themselves as nothing short of “world class” with transparency, detail and tight bass. Extremely powerful (over KT150 levels) the amp pumped easily 90 w/channel or more. 4xEL38s (clear glass) are at a similar level, with a slightly “looser” bass but enormous detail and air. That kind of powers needed absolute resolution and transparency from the preamp, and that was 4xEL38s, or 2xEL38 plus 2xEL39s on Euforia. For refinement, 2xEL11 as drivers also worked really nice...

As driver triodes in Euforia, the EL38s “clear glass” are absolutely top flight...for my tastes, and combined with the 39s or 38s “dark glass” offer the very best sound of Euforia driving similar tubes in the power amp...great !

 

[Johnnysound]

Speaking of EL38s, I was trying to decipher the date codes of one of my old Mullard “dark glass” ones.
It reads: 1326 / MS- (yes, a minus - sign)

So far, 1326 is tube type (EL38) certainly built before 1955. But the real mystery is the second group: factory/year of manufacture. First letter “M” is factory...totally unknown !! checked all the tables, and “B” is Blackburn, “R” is Mitcham, but the “M” is followed by a question mark !!

From the acid etched code, this one fits Mullard standards...but which factory/year ? May have been made in Holland or France ? this is a tough one...for the true experts !

 

[mordy]

Speaking of EL38s, I was trying to decipher the date codes of one of my old Mullard “dark glass” ones.
It reads: 1326 / MS- (yes, a minus - sign)

So far, 1326 is tube type (EL38) certainly built before 1955. But the real mystery is the second group: factory/year of manufacture. First letter “M” is factory...totally unknown !! checked all the tables, and “B” is Blackburn, “R” is Mitcham, but the “M” is followed by a question mark !!

From the acid etched code, this one was made (probably) on a British factory...but which one, and what year ? this is a tough one...for the true experts !

Hi Johnnysound,
I have some EL3N tubes that have the letters MS on them. They were made by WIRAG (division of Philips) in Vienna, Austria.
Here is a representative picture:

 

[Johnnysound]

Hi Johnnysound,
I have some EL3N tubes that have the letters MS on them. They were made by WIRAG (division of Philips) in Vienna, Austria.
Here is a representative picture:

Fantastic info, Mordy !!

Since Mullard was owned by Philips, and the codes were shared (at least in the early years) it looks like you nailed it !! I suspected that the tube may have been made by an unknown european factory, and you confirmed it. There are clear differences in construction compared to the later British made EL38s....but the old black glass “MS” are some of the best sounding EL38s around. In my view, being Philips made, they may be sonically closer to early Miniwatt/RT/Darios than to later Mullards. This is coincident with @hypnos1 impressions...and demands a full session of tube rolling.... again !! (LOL)

 

[hypnos1]

Hi @hypnos1...I hope that some day one of those Mazdas EL38s (or RT, Darios) appear somewhere, but so far I have not seen a single one for sale...and I mean not only in fleabay, but searching multiple sites (including french ones)..nothing. Congrats for those collector pieces, they are extremely rare, in fact more so than the EL39s !! Given their unobtainable status, I am very happy with the supposedly “second best”...the early Mullards “dark glass” EL38s, which in fact are very close to the EL39s as powers...and perhaps a bit more open and lively.

And again, I am trying to draw a line between the performance of those tubes in Euforia/HP amp as opposed to Euforia/preamp, but this is not easy: having a good batch of tubes (and being dual purpose pentode/triodes) the sound of 4xEL39s or 4xEL38s in my power amp was so vastly superior to anything that I have heard before, that you just have to set up Euforia to exploit that...and this particular setup in Euforia might be different from the one for purely HP amp duties.

The awesome 4xEL39s powers took time to “loosen up” (being dark and reserved at first) but after that the quartet revealed themselves as nothing short of “world class” with transparency, detail and tight bass. Extremely powerful (over KT150 levels) the amp pumped easily 90 w/channel or more. 4xEL38s (clear glass) are at a similar level, with a slightly “looser” bass but enormous detail and air. That kind of powers needed absolute resolution and transparency from the preamp, and that was 4xEL38s, or 2xEL38 plus 2xEL39s on Euforia. For refinement, 2xEL11 as drivers also worked really nice...

As driver triodes in Euforia, the EL38s “clear glass” are absolutely top flight...for my tastes, and combined with the 39s or 38s “dark glass” offer the very best sound of Euforia driving similar tubes in the power amp...great !

Fantastic info, Mordy !!

Since Mullard was owned by Philips, and the codes were shared (at least in the early years) it looks like you nailed it !! I suspected that the tube may have been made by an unknown european factory, and you confirmed it. There are clear differences in construction compared to the later British made EL38s....but the old black glass “MS” are some of the best sounding EL38s around. No doubt the Austrian factory followed the highest standards. In my view, being Philips made, they may be sonically closer to early Miniwatt/RT/Darios than to later Mullards. This is coincident with @hypnos1 impressions...and demands a full session of tube rolling.... again !! (LOL)

For the tube community, the discovery of the “M” factory is a great piece of information...

Hi J.

Re. the 'special' Mazda/Dario EL38s - the ones without the silver painted band - these do indeed look even harder to find than the EL39 (which is saying something lol! ).

However...after even more hours' testing with different pieces of music (folk/soft rock/electronic/acoustic/classical/male & female vocal/choir), all I can say is keep looking! I can now confirm beyond any doubt that this particular EL38 is way better (in every respect) than all others, including the superlative early large bottle, dark glass Mullard you mentioned. And the combination of one with an EL39 as powers is also a good bit better than two 39s in most respects...ie. = 2x EL39s+++. The difference actually took me quite by surprise while testing WG's 39 adapters...quick A/B testing (of similar tubes) is the only way to really judge such differences IMHO, auditory memory being notoriously unreliable lol!
Anyway, my last vestige of questioning - how can this possibly be? - was buried when listening to Holst's 'Planets' Suite (24bit 96kHz remaster), and Mussorgsky's 'Pictures at an Exhibition'/Night on Bald Mountain', also in hi-res. To say shivers were going up and down my spine is an understatement lol! I have never heard such bass mastery before. And this includes all bass/lower mids instruments in the orchestra, from kettle drums to tuba and trombones. In this respect, even the Chord Dave/Utopia combo at a previous CanJam London didn't impress me more. Add on all the other virtues of the EL39, and perhaps one can understand my surprise! I'm fully convinced that other systems would at least have a similar experience...

And yes, in the absence of finding an early large bottle Mullard EL38, also keep a close eye out for the early Philips (France) silver-banded versions...and if really lucky to find one with dual getters, the sound approaches the EL39 even closer. But the jewel in the crown must remain the 'special' MAZDA/Dario 38 (or possibly other French Philips brand also - of the same construction)....it truly is in a class of its own...at any price.

 

[DecentLevi]

Hey guys how about some 6B8 / 6R7 love on the Euforia with this most charming tube, complete with a 'panic button' on top
The real babe magnet... provided you get the right adapter... and don't plan on having any ladies over

Who knows, they may be a 'beauty and the beast' tube. Or maybe someone can try a really beautiful 6N7G

 

[mordy]

I have a number of 6N7G tubes; RCA, Sylvania, Arcturus, Ken-Rad, National Union, Mazda (Visseaux), Mullard (ECC31) and Philips FDD20.
In my experience the NU sounds the best of the US tubes; of the European the Visseaux and Mullard.
In the beginning of the Elise saga h1 liked the combination of ECC31 and FDD20, but that sound has been surpassed by later discoveries.
As always, synergy with the power tubes is important.

 

[Oskari]

Speaking of EL38s, I was trying to decipher the date codes of one of my old Mullard “dark glass” ones.
It reads: 1326 / MS- (yes, a minus - sign)

So far, 1326 is tube type (EL38) certainly built before 1955. But the real mystery is the second group: factory/year of manufacture. First letter “M” is factory...totally unknown !! checked all the tables, and “B” is Blackburn, “R” is Mitcham, but the “M” is followed by a question mark !!

From the acid etched code, this one fits Mullard standards...but which factory/year ? May have been made in Holland or France ? this is a tough one...for the true experts !

Hi Johnnysound,
I have some EL3N tubes that have the letters MS on them. They were made by WIRAG (division of Philips) in Vienna, Austria.
Here is a representative picture:

Fantastic info, Mordy !!

Since Mullard was owned by Philips, and the codes were shared (at least in the early years) it looks like you nailed it !! I suspected that the tube may have been made by an unknown european factory, and you confirmed it. There are clear differences in construction compared to the later British made EL38s....but the old black glass “MS” are some of the best sounding EL38s around. In my view, being Philips made, they may be sonically closer to early Miniwatt/RT/Darios than to later Mullards. This is coincident with @hypnos1 impressions...and demands a full session of tube rolling.... again !! (LOL)

On the WIRAG, it is the letter A that makes them WIRAG. The MS is the type code (EL3N) here.

The Mullard has an older type of Mullard code. I cannot explain the MS-. This is still a Mullard only code.