[triggsviola]

hypnos, I can attest to different cables. I was using a Moon Audio Blue Dragon USB cable from computer to Yggy. It sounded great! I then bought a Pangea USB cable. Slightly less bass and more detail. Why? It shouldn't be!

 

[hypnos1]

hypnos, I can attest to different cables. I was using a Moon Audio Blue Dragon USB cable from computer to Yggy. It sounded great! I then bought a Pangea USB cable. Slightly less bass and more detail. Why? It shouldn't be!

Hi triggs...and perfect timing for such an observation/query lol!!

Why?....because I myself have just had what I regard as another mini-revelation, with interesting (IMHO!) ramifications for digital cables that are so often overlooked when upgrading other cables and system elements.

USB digital transfer of sound is fraught with possible degradation/interference, and usually demands some fancy - and expensive - remedies. Which is one reason why I always prefer coax digital function.

Anyway, my recent experiment using Neotech's OCC silver/gold alloy wire in my DIY coax cable, as opposed to solid pure silver (not OCC), has finally answered a nagging question I had in my mind after hearing A11's HD800s cabled with said alloy wire...ie. that although it brought more upper mid and treble detail, along with a wider soundstage and smoother overall presentation, I still felt deep down there was a certain something missing. It seemed to me there were some very subtle frequencies not present, and which reduced the 'bite' I prefer in my T1s over the Senns (that Olli thought might be due to extra 'distortion' from my amp, which is what tubes do, of course!).

However, with the aid of now being able to do fast A/Bing of my two coax cables, I discovered that it is indeed down more to the wire(s) used! And the best indicator turned out to be three male voices - JD Souther's 'The Sad Cafe' & Jimmy Webb's 'P F Sloane' (in hi-res, from HDTracks download '2013 Sampler', which is free and can't recommend too highly that you d/load ASAP!), plus Bob Dylan's wonderful rendition of 'I Cross the Green Mountain' at the end of the music soundtrack from 'Gods and Generals' (which I highly recommend also!).

All these voices - but especially JD Souther's and most of all Bob Dylan's (whom you'd never actually recognise lol! ) - have (or should have!) a certain rough gravel to them which adds a special, unique character. And although the OCC silver/gold wire is deliciously smooth...that gravel is almost absent!!! ...whoa!!...As is also indicated in Cassandra Wilson's 'Another Country' from the same sampler...her sexily smoky voice not being quite so smoky lol!

And so, therefore, this would explain the additional slight reduction of subtle tones/overtones in instruments also, thereby minimising the 'bite' I've so come to love...an unfortunate side-effect of delivering such a seductively smooth sound.

The answer? Hopefully, by adding some solid silver OCC wire to the mix...I must get that gravel back!! (the other benefits of Neotech's OCC silver/gold wire are too good to lose). So it's back to stripping another length of cat6e cable, and the fiddly job of having to terminate one end with a BNC plug for the Naim and a 3.5mm jack at the other for Hugo2...(RCAs are much easier lol!! ).

The final conclusions therefore are that not only digital cables are more important in the signal line than many may think/believe, but also that the very wire used can have quite noticeable effects on the final sound. The degree will, obviously, depend very much on the quality of the entire rest of the system - from the mains electricity supply, thru other cables, to headphones - and the resultant level of resolution...not forgetting one's hearing, of course! ...CHEERS!...CJ

ps. Will let y'all know if I do in fact manage that almost impossible task of getting all those goodies I crave...gravel included!! ...

 

[hypnos1]

Right then guys....for anyone seriously(!) interested in cables/wire, just a quick (yes!! ) update on my experiment with digital coax cables.

After the surprising - and unexpected - results from using just a 35cm run, made with cat6e coax cable and Neotech's mono crystal UP-OCC silver/gold alloy wire plus solid copper, I'm happy (nay, relieved!) to report that adding 2x lengths of AWG26 solid UP-OCC 'plain' silver to the mix has indeed restored those subtle frequencies I mentioned that were reduced in the alloy wire.

Back is the slightly 'rough, gravel' in certain male voices, and the seductive smoky depth in female voices such as Cassandra Wilson and Mary Fahl (particularly in her number 'Goin' Home' from the soundtrack of 'Gods and Generals'). And fortunately, not at the expense of the wonderful extra detail - especially upper mids and treble - and wider/larger soundstage provided by the silver/gold alloy wire.

I still cannot believe these changes/improvements from using different wire in a digital cable (coax at least), and which is all the more attractive as they come courtesy of such a short run, rather than having to spend a fortune on longer IC or headphone cable runs of the alloy wire. I must, however, qualify this by adding that one probably needs OCC solid silver (plus copper, if possible) wire wherever else possible to gain the most of said benefits, but I suspect this could still help a good deal even if not lol!

Mind you, if one doesn't have electrical digital coax facility, then the cost will be much greater of course, needing to make up ICs including the alloy wire in question. And I apologise for teasing those who can't make up their own cables, or get someone to do the job for them...I don't know of any manufacturer who actually makes up cables using such a combination of mono crystal wires. And if they did, I dread to think how much they'd cost!! .

But at least I have proved beyond doubt that paying attention to the digital transfer feeding one's DAC can and does make a difference to final performance. And so these will probably be my last words on this particular topic....HAPPY LISTENING, y'all!...CJ

 

[OctavianH]

But before the last words, I would like to ask your opinion in the well known coax vs optical war. I currently keep my CXC via a decent optical cable connected to my DAC. I decided to go "optical" because it is, in theory, immune to noise. However, many claim the optical input will never match the coax one on a decently designed DAC. Why? I am curious to know what do you think about that, since you seem to be in the coax team.

 

[hypnos1]

But before the last words, I would like to ask your opinion in the well known coax vs optical war. I currently keep my CXC via a decent optical cable connected to my DAC. I decided to go "optical" because it is, in theory, immune to noise. However, many claim the optical input will never match the coax one on a decently designed DAC. Why? I am curious to know what do you think about that, since you seem to be in the coax team.

OK, OH...I'm easily drawn back to one of my favourite topics lol!

As to why the oft-stated 'superiority' of electrical digital transfer compared to optical, the various 'theories' are undoubtedly fuel for debate 'til the end of time. As for optical, I have heard that possible degradation of the signal can be caused if the cable is bent sharply, as opposed to the use of right-angled mirrors for example (?...). And re. 'noise' with coax cable, I suspect this would only be a real issue if poor shielding is used, coupled with some extremely strong EMI/RFI nearby, or dreadful noise inherited from the mains electricity supply (IMHO).

My own guess is that actually, we still don't know everything about how digital sound data transfer behaves compared to other forms of data...and/or how it may be affected in some negative way by extraneous factors. I personally have come to prefer electrical coax because...

a. In the past I have used both coax and optical, and always felt I preferred the former. Unfortunately this was before I honed my analytical assessment knives over the past few years with tube amps and tube rolling.

b. Experienced people I have read over the years often also state such a preference...although equally 'expert' people may prefer optical lol!

c. I have always admired the quality of Naim Audio equipment, so when deciding on which server/player to go for, I found that their latest UnitiCore model not only had coax digital out, but that it was the only option...no optical!! Given the high price and quality factors of Naim gear, I think it's fair to assume why they chose coax! However, this does mean I can't do strict A/Bing of the two alas...

Anyway, my preference for coax has rocketed since the results of my recent comparison of different wires used in its construction, providing yet another means of tweaking final output performance. But as usual, YMMV lol ...CHEERS!...CJ

 

[OctavianH]

Speaking of cables, I found a local manufacturer which was recommended to me by another guy, more exaclty this one:
https://megapteracables.wixsite.com/megapteracables
It seems these are decent cables at a quite good price. I ordered a BNC/RCA to try the coax input of my DAC and 2 power cables.
I will inform about quality and impressions when receiving them, these are handcrafted so it might take a few days.

 

[hypnos1]

Speaking of cables, I found a local manufacturer which was recommended to me by another guy, more exaclty this one:
https://megapteracables.wixsite.com/megapteracables
It seems these are decent cables at a quite good price. I ordered a BNC/RCA to try the coax input of my DAC and 2 power cables.
I will inform about quality and impressions when receiving them, these are handcrafted so it might take a few days.

Hi OH.

They do indeed look nice cables and not overly expensive. Look forward to hearing what you think of them in practice lol!

I do wish however that some enterprising, more budget-conscious cable people would get a bit more adventurous and start using the wonderful mono crystal OCC - (Dr) Ohno Continuous Cast - wires. In my own experiments, they have definitely proved to be all they say about this type of wire...no exaggerated hype here lol! And as I have also found, I'm sure they could be made commercially at prices far below those aimed at owners of hyper-expensive gear...more modest equipment also benefiting from this wire. Especially as, being single crystal, thinner wire can be used still to great effect, compared to 'ordinary' pure silver and/or copper.

If I were a few years younger I'd be tempted to patent - and make - my latest killer combo cable using Neotech's teflon coated OCC silver/gold alloy wire; OCC silver (solid) and OCC copper, also solid. Bought in wholesale bulk, I'm sure using this wire mix would beat anything in the market costing far more by a very long mile!! ...(ps. if such a cable were ever to appear on the market, y'all will know where it originated lol!! )...CHEERS !...CJ

 

[teknorob23]

A massive thank you to @hypnos1, whose knowledge not to mention craftsmanship has enabled me to join the party and sample the wonders of E38/11combo. I cant share detailed impressions just yet as the E11s are only just installed, but the 38s alone, working with the stock PSVANEs brought a significant improvement over the supplied powers, specifically with the quality of the low end and more general terms by bringing greater depth to the whole presentation. I'll hopefully be able some more useful info on my impression of the whole EL set up very soon

 

[Scutey]

Well finally the wait for my Euforia is nearly over, had an email today to say it's arrived at Audiobarn, and they'll be shipping tomorrow and should arrive Friday, yippee!, my only problem now will be which tubes to try first! .

ps @teknorob23 great pics! .

 

[hypnos1]

Hey @teknorob23 ...thanks for your kind words, and those wonderful photos. Hope the EL11s come up to scratch for you...they sounded great when testing in my own system lol . The EL38 powers are pretty well a no-brainer now IMHO...in our amps, at least!!

And I wonder how your Focal Stellias compare to the HD820...did you ever manage to try the Senns? It's tragic you had to give up the Utopias, no?! ...HAPPY LISTENING!...CJ

 

[hypnos1]

Well finally the wait for my Euforia is nearly over, had an email today to say it's arrived at Audiobarn, and they'll be shipping tomorrow and should arrive Friday, yippee!, my only problem now will be which tubes to try first! .

ps @teknorob23 great pics! .

Great news from you too, S...I suspect everything else could well be put on hold this coming weekend...(or at least I should certainly hope so lol!!).

Which tubes first? I myself would find it almost impossible not to dive straight into the magical EL11/38 combo, but you must first check the amp is working 100% with the stock tubes of course! Then the choice will be yours at some time over the weekend I suppose...hopefully! ...(Just don't expect too much sleep for a couple of days!...)...CHEERS!...CJ

 

[teknorob23]

Well finally the wait for my Euforia is nearly over, had an email today to say it's arrived at Audiobarn, and they'll be shipping tomorrow and should arrive Friday, yippee!, my only problem now will be which tubes to try first! .

ps @teknorob23 great pics! .

Thank you and i had a call from Audiobarn today too, saying my Euforia had arrived.

Hopefully heading up there tomorrow to pick it up and i'm sure they'll be pleased to get their demo back!

 

[Scutey]

You're not wrong h1!, I shall be making excuses not to do anything this weekend!, I intend to have lots of quality time with Euforia, and woe betide anyone who tries to stop me! . As for tubes, I will try out stock set up first, but as you rightly say the EL11/38 combo will be impossible to resist!.

Great news from you too, S...I suspect everything else could well be put on hold this coming weekend...(or at least I should certainly hope so lol!!).

Which tubes first? I myself would find it almost impossible not to dive straight into the magical EL11/38 combo, but you must first check the amp is working 100% with the stock tubes of course! Then the choice will be yours at some time over the weekend I suppose...hopefully! ...(Just don't expect too much sleep for a couple of days!...)...CHEERS!...CJ

Thank you and i had a call from Audiobarn today too, saying my Euforia had arrived.

Hopefully heading up there tomorrow to pick it up and i'm sure they'll be pleased to get their demo back!

@teknorob23 , you're Euforia and mine, I guess must have been made at the same time, it'll be interesting to see what numbers they have on the bottom. As for picking up I envy you! , If I lived near by I'd be up like a shot tomorrow!, sadly Plymouth is 250 miles away, so I'll just have to hang on for another 24 hours, if that's possible! .

 

[hypnos1]

You're not wrong h1!, I shall be making excuses not to do anything this weekend!, I intend to have lots of quality time with Euforia, and woe betide anyone who tries to stop me! As for tubes, I will try out stock set up first, but as you rightly say the EL11/38 combo will be impossible to resist!.

Good man, S....that's what I like to see - dedication to duty lol!!

And while here, I'd just like to remind folks that when popping in EL tubes after 'conventional' ones, it could take an hour or two for the amp to readjust properly to their different requirements...mine certainly did! Plus, of course, new tubes and adapters will take a fair while to burn in before they give anywhere near of their best. The same goes for new cables...and any other new bits of gear of course!

Anyway folks, from the way my latest 'killer combo' cable has transformed performance in my system - even though 'only' in the digital coax run - I might just look into making up some interconnects using said OCC wires, with a view to helping out anyone who might be interested in such an animal...one that isn't otherwise commercially available (at the moment lol!), and at what I regard as a much fairer/more affordable price. And to keep the price down, I myself have found that the standard 1 metre length is far more than is actually necessary in most instances. Plus, the shorter the better, soundwise! So I would recommend a half metre length, if at all possible...food for thought lol......CHEERS!...CJ

 

[triggsviola]

Pretty often, I get a fairly noticeable rattle when playing a track with heavy bass. Does anybody else have this issue? I thought it might be my Focal Utopias but I tried some other headphones and it was still there. Sometimes it doesn't rattle. Could it be the tubes?