[JazzVinyl]

A carbon plate tube developed for inter continental missiles got to be good......

Intercontinental ballistic missiles are BAD, Mordy...let's hope the tubes FAIL <GGG>

 

[Scutey]

Oh wouldn't I love some of those Bendix, one day perhaps.

 

[attmci]

Hi Scutey,
Later is now - these tubes are so expensive that they are only exercised on a clear Sunday summer day, but in the interest of scientific research we'll make an exception:

The going price is around $300 each today.
How do they sound with the Fotons? Excellent, with a very even frequency response top to bottom, and with what DecentLevi called "mythical energy."
But I am going to save these investment grade tubes and put them away in my safe (really a shoe box).Instead I will use my other category of tubes called "GEC savers" such as the RCA6080 (which have more of an emphasis on the mid bass range).
And truth is, I am just as happy listening to those tubes even if the GEC 6AS7G offers a little more.
And while I am it, maybe try the Bendix 6080WB with the Fotons. A carbon plate tube developed for inter continental missiles got to be good......

Lol, finally, you are getting there. Don't store these, make them sing....

BTW, the GECs deserve much better driver tubes than those in the picture.

 

[mordy]

Lol, finally, you are getting there. Don't store these, make them sing....

BTW, the GECs deserve much better driver tubes than those in the picture.

Hi attmci,

Did you have an opportunity to listen to the Foton 6N8S ribbed anode plate tubes from 1952-1955? IMHO these tubes are right up there with the best.
These tubes have a different construction and sound much better than the regular Foton tubes from later years.

 

[mordy]

Intercontinental ballistic missiles are BAD, Mordy...let's hope the tubes FAIL <GGG>

Hi JV,

Agree that inter continental missiles are bad (especially if they are pointing towards us). But I was just speaking about the tubes... Come to think about it, a lot of tubes were developed for the military - I know that you enjoy this favorite VT-231JAN (Joint Army-Navy) tube:

 

[Scutey]

Hi attmci,

Did you have an opportunity to listen to the Foton 6N8S ribbed anode plate tubes from 1952-1955? IMHO these tubes are right up there with the best.
These tubes have a different construction and sound much better than the regular Foton tubes from later years.

Hi mordy,

Spot on, I also have a pair of 56 year regular Foton's and they are not in the same league as the ribbed anode's, imo they lack the dynamics that make the ra's such a great sounding tube, one year earlier makes all the difference!.

 

[attmci]

Hi attmci,

Did you have an opportunity to listen to the Foton 6N8S ribbed anode plate tubes from 1952-1955? IMHO these tubes are right up there with the best.
These tubes have a different construction and sound much better than the regular Foton tubes from later years.

Thanks for the info. But I am not buying now.

 

[mordy]

Thanks for the info. But I am not buying now.

Hi attmci,

Can sympathize with that - I myself have way too many tubes!
There are a few on my want list, but I would only strike if I got a super duper deal, which happens sometimes...
My last purchase was Cetron 6336B 5A tubes. I don't have an amp for them yet - maybe I should use them for room heaters lol........
Should you get the itch to buy again, you can get four of the 54-55 Fotons for around $34 shipped. These tubes have the look of Communist worker housing - drab and dreary, and almost no tube glow, but they really sound absolutely great.

 

[Johnnysound]

Yet another variation of the EL11s/6080 theme, this time with mid sixties (?) NEC 6080s. While the bass is just a bit less prominent vs. the Chatham’s, I feel it is tighter and better defined, and more importantly, the NECs have probably the same midrange “magic” and substance of the Mullards. But the exceptional highs, the control, the definition, the whole presentation which is more on the neutral side is what set these tubes apart from the other two: a very linear, seriously good sounding tube that is a great match with the quiet and quite accurate TFK EL11...

As commented in previous posts, this is no surprise considering the top notch pedigree of the NEC 6080s, made in Japan by a (in those years) wholly owned subsidiary of the famed Western Electric Company. In fact, and as far as I know, WE never produced the 6080 in the U.S., so we can assume they assigned the production of this particular model to their Japanese branch, perhaps in an early effort to reduce costs...anyway, the tube is substantial, very well made and shows certain similarities with other U.S. tubes of the era. Can this one be THE real, the one and only WE 6080 ever produced ? Who knows, but it sounds like it.

It is not that easy to find, but generally is very fairly priced, I got my NOS pair from a British ebay vendor for about $ 25 plus shipping (another $ 18) which is a giveaway for this level of tubes...

 

[Johnnysound]

And only after reading about it, I noticed a detail that now looks obvious but it was not: NEC stands for Nippon Electric Company, the brainchild of Western Electric Company. And there is a lot more to know about this company. WE performed the very first joint venture with foreign investment in Japan, creating NEC with Japanese partners back in 1898. The company flourished in the lucrative telephone and telecommunications business, until about 1938 when ultra nationalist parties began to harass and then seized WE assets in Japan, before the total rupture during WWII.

By 1941, NEC was one of the foremost hi tech telecom companies in Japan, taken by the military for all their needs, with only a little problem: their main factory, a huge installation, was located in Tokyo, and so obvious a target was destroyed around 1945 by massive bombing, courtesy of the U.S. Air Force.

You may say this history is off topic, no relation at all with tubes. The U.S. government faced the enormous task of the reconstruction of Japan in the post war years, it was of great strategic importance the telecommunications and electronic industry in particular, and you know, tube production require very special machinery...all lost in the war.

Having already interests in Japan, Western Electric was one of the first U.S. companies required by Washington to help, in this case rebuild the NEC factories, of course backed by massive federal funds and a long term exclusivity contract. This was by far the greatest deal in the history of WE: the telephony equipment manufacture in Japan soared to a multi billion worldwide business, until the giant AT&T bought WE in the early eighties...

It is well known the tale of Philips, bringing Mullard tube machinery to Japan after taking over the british company. This obviously improved the quality of some Japanese brands...but not a single word is heard about Western Electric. Very discreet operation indeed, many years before Philips. And they used American machinery for sure, classic Western Electric, no less...so the similarities between some Japanese and American tubes are not casual, and by no means a “copy” as some ignorant souls dare to say...

 

[mordy]

Hi J,
Very interesting read - thanks.
I have some Channel Master branded Japanese 6SN7 tubes that sound very good.
It took me a long time to identify the manufacturer- NEC (courtesy of Google Images).

 

[Oskari]

The NEC–WE connection did exist. But:

In fact, and as far as I know, WE never produced the 6080 in the U.S., so we can assume they assigned the production of this particular model to their Japanese branch, perhaps in an early effort to reduce costs...anyway, the tube is substantial, very well made and shows certain similarities with other U.S. tubes of the era. Can this one be THE real, the one and only WE 6080 ever produced ? Who knows, but it sounds like it.

Well, I don't think so. WE had the 421A. They did not need the 6080.

It is well known the tale of Philips, bringing Mullard tube machinery to Japan after taking over the british company.

That is an inaccurate tale. Philips owned Mullard fully from 1927 on. The Philips–Matsush¡ta technology transfer did not consist of disused Mullard equipment.

 

[Johnnysound]

The NEC–WE connection did exist. But:

Well, I don't think so. WE had the 421A. They did not need the 6080..

Hi Oskari, I am no expert, but understand that the 6080 was an “upgraded” version of the 6AS7G, in a more compact format, while the WE 421A is similar to the 5998, a different tube. And all U.S major manufactures started producing 6080s, in great quantities, replacing the 6AS7Gs. WE never produced in the U.S. the 6AS7G, or the 6080, at the time the best seller of the family. Who knows, but what is certain is that this company had a strong industrial base in Japan, with lower costs, so my theory is that they decided to produce certain types of tubes in Japan, for a global market. On the other hand, Western Electric or not, the NEC 6080 is an outstanding power tube in the Euforia, so I really don’t care who designed it. I found certain construction similarities with some U.S. tubes, but the tube is bigger, more substantial, and also is similar to the Mullards: it works very hot and glows fiery red...the Euforia gets hot, too...

That is an inaccurate tale. Philips owned Mullard fully from 1927 on. The Philips–Matsush¡ta technology transfer did not consist of disused Mullard equipment.[/QUOTE]

Most probably is very inaccurate, but it is there. And I never talked about disused equipment, but you are right, the tale says that. The question is, when this technology transfer took place ? This was high tech before the war and very sensitive, so all British technology transfer to Japan ceased around 1940, a bit too late...we are talking about the post war years, and no doubt Philips/Mullard used their very best technology in Japan

 

[Johnnysound]

Hi J,
Very interesting read - thanks.
I have some Channel Master branded Japanese 6SN7 tubes that sound very good.
It took me a long time to identify the manufacturer- NEC (courtesy of Google Images).

Hi Mordy,

How could you identify the manufacturer ? In my small collection of 6SN7s I have some ITT (Hitachi) and Raytheon International (Toshiba), none says “made in Japan”. Never imagined “Channel Master” were made by NEC. Anyway, mine are also very good sounding tubes...

Of course we got the rebranded ones , the same tubes. Toshibas cost a lot more, since they have kind of a cult following, but in my personal opinion the Hitachis sound even better, great bass, punch and tonality. Sleepers, they say

 

[Oskari]

Hi Oskari, I am no expert, but understand that the 6080 was an “upgraded” version of the 6AS7G, in a more compact format, while the WE 421A is similar to the 5998, a different tube. And all U.S major manufactures started producing 6080s, in great quantities, replacing the 6AS7Gs. WE never produced in the U.S. the 6AS7G, or the 6080, at the time the best seller of the family.

Yes, it's a bit different but serves a similar purpose.

Most probably is very inaccurate, but it is there. And I never talked about disused equipment, but you are right, the tale says that. The question is, when this technology transfer took place ? This was high tech before the war and very sensitive, so all British technology transfer to Japan ceased around 1940, a bit too late...we are talking about the post war years, and no doubt Philips/Mullard used their very best technology in Japan

1952 on. See:

• https://www.panasonic.com/global/corporate/history/chronicle/1952.html

BTW, this was Dutch rather than British.