Lord Raven
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Thanks Gibosi
I got it, makes no difference. Don't know why did Lukasz mentioned numbers on the boxes. I asked this to help new members cause I almost messed up.
Feliks-Audio ELISE...(previously 6SN7 + 6AS7G/6080 prototype)
- Thread starter hypnos1
- Start date
Thanks Gibosi
I got it, makes no difference. Don't know why did Lukasz mentioned numbers on the boxes. I asked this to help new members cause I almost messed up.
nephilim
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The slot numbers are described in the Elise manual which can be downloaded from the website. Of course this doesn't help if the tubes themselves are mixed by someone.
Thanks Gibosi
I got it, makes no difference. Don't know why did Lukasz mentioned numbers on the boxes. I asked this to help new members cause I almost messed up.
Hi LR.
Mine too were numbered for specific sockets...can only guess they were measured for best Left/Right balance, but considering I've mixed all sorts of tubes with no real discernible imbalance I suspect in practice very few people would notice the difference lol!!
Treble is usually one of the main things to change over time - but normally to improve any sharpness/harshness, and give a smoother more detailed presentation. Perhaps you have been used to too much of this frequency range, and a period of 'adjustment' and/or re-education of the ears is needed?!!..Or, of course, you could be right in that you've killed your HPs!!!
gibosi
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Bro, I listen to the knob at 50-60% volume but I feel that at 80-90% the volume is still bearable. My cans are 32 Ohms and I feel there isn't enough volume. Yes, I meant that I burn in Elise at 90% volume with HPs put away under the pillow
The Elise cannot drive 32 Ohms cans very well.... But this is true of almost all OTL amps...
Yeah, for those HD800 owners who want more bass presence, the ECC31 could be a very good tube.
However, first we have to find out if the Elise can accommodate it. As the Elise uses two 6SN7 drivers, the circuitry is a bit more complex than my amp, which uses only one. I think it should be fine, but until H1 gets his adapters built, we can't be sure....
Hi g...adapter built - and actually working!!...PHEW!...(wish you'd warned me about that initial flash we encountered in our past - nearly had a heart attack lol!).
Anyway, I can report that not only can the Elise accommodate it, she LOVES it! Actually, to be more precise she AND my C3gS in the left channel love it...and this is a NOS tube straight out of the box. Already I am VERY impressed and can't wait for the QTL to arrive.
Obviously it's much too early to gain any real idea of their full potential in the Elise - to tell the truth I was just a little concerned about your comments re the bass...now with my silver/single-crystal/gold-clad adapters, the C3gSs give me all the bass I could ever really need. But a little more is no bad thing...so long as it's impeccably controlled and detailed...and already just the one ECC31 is giving me that bit more. I have a sneeking feeling that - for me - this combo could well be my new end-game (for now!!).
I shall, however, accept NO compromising of detail/separation/air/holographic stage/transient handling etc. etc.
And not only because of what I'm hearing, but also in wonderment at how on Earth the Feliks guys have come up with a machine that can produce this kind of result with a C3gS in the left channel (which is way off stock design) and an ECC31 in the right (which is closer, but still a good bit different to your basic 6SN7)...and without the slightest hint of imbalance/clash whatsoever...how is it done?!!!
My heartfelt thanks go to you K for introducing this tube to us...especially as adapters are available on ebay for not a lot of money...all that's needed is to find a pair of tubes at a reasonable price...
CHEERS!
ps. A couple of pics (plse excuse the prototype adapter...now I know all is well, I shall do my usual thing and dispense with the socket and attach the wires direct to the pins...always squeezes just a little bit more out of the glass wonders, lol!)...
The ECC31 may not glow brightly, but the GECs more than make up for that...
K4RL
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Just picked up Elise 0016 from the post office. No customs trouble and doesn't look like the package was opened, which is nice. Unfortunately my wife wants to, "eat dinner with me," so Ill have to wait to try it out :/
I also received a bottle cap in my box... Anybody else get one? I'll inspect the amp carefully tonight, but something like that could leave a nasty scratch during shipping.
I also received a bottle cap in my box... Anybody else get one? I'll inspect the amp carefully tonight, but something like that could leave a nasty scratch during shipping.
Shaffer
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K4RL, welcome. You'll love the amp! For the money, it's almost a gift.
Lord Raven
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Congratulations and welcome to the club
Don't worry about the cap, you got the un-opened and un-taxed Elise. Mine was thrown on the floor and un-boxed in the most humiliating way at the customs.
Enjoy!!!!
gibosi
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Hi g...adapter built - and actually working!!...PHEW!...(wish you'd warned me about that initial flash we encountered in our past - nearly had a heart attack lol!).
I shall, however, accept NO compromising of detail/separation/air/holographic stage/transient handling etc. etc....(but at the moment, as I continue to listen, I feel a BIG smile spreading...).
It is very good news that the ECC31 will work in the Elise with the standard eBay adapters! Well done!
However, in terms of sonics, I sincerely doubt that the ECC31 will match the C3g in terms of resolution. But it may well have other attributes that still might seduce you.
And in between classes, coursework and tests, I have been trying to spend some time with the MOV/GEC B36. And while I have not been able to make any comparisons, my ears tell me that it is a terrific tube.
agnostic1er
Head-Fier
Review: Feliks audio Elise (stock Svetlanas nos 6as7g power tubes, jan Sylvanias nos 6sn7wgta drivers, selected and chose by Luzasz) on Sennheiser hd800
First of all:
About my HP setup:
- Elise has now full break in (100/110 hours); I feel after some 60/70 hours of running sound didn't change any more
- another head-amp: a diy SS one, with added 41ohm resistances at the output to perfectly match the hd800 impedance (I tested R values from 6.8 to 100ohms)
- main source: CDplayer Teac PD501HR; not a high-end gear but very neutral, detailed, with a wide bandwidth
- interconnect: DIY pure single stranded silver wire, silver plated RCA plugs
- stock hd800 cable
About the hd800:
I regard its only flaws being
- a bit too much rolled off sub-bass range but only vs bass champions HP
- the well-known 6kHz peak: a light personal anaxilus mod on my hd800 reduces somewhat this peak without rolling off the upper treble too much; it is made of open cell foam + thin felt, thus something a bit different than the classical closed cell foam felt; I tested around twenty materials/shapes _ with and without measures _before staying at the open cell foam ring + felt sticked only on the center metal ring. In my experience any mod does nibble transparency, one must find the one that nibble the less. For the purpose of this review I listened at my hd800 with and without the mod
- a rather lean/rising global sound, resulting in a loss of flesh and presence; the mod nicely adds weight to the sound, that's intrinsically important... but also because it makes the HP more forgiving to dry recordings
Otherwise a faultless HP with pin point imaging, wide soundstages and clean clean clean overall sound; just a few words for those regarding its " too large of a soundstage width": listen to monophonic tracks to realize it doesn't lie in this area.
About me:
- my long time main hobby is to design passive filtered hifi speakers. So I'm certainly more objectivist than subjectivist; however I know that measurements do obviously not say the last word in audio.
- I prefer searching for emotion inside the recordings; I hate redounding colorations coming from some gears even if they are allowing presumed improved euphony
- to my ears, the most important things are, besides all other qualities, transparency, tonal balance and lack of harshness.
- I listen to many sorts of music/songs, from Gregorian to Asian underground but almost never to symphony and opera; I simply don't like them except sometimes in live events
And don't forget: what follows are my own feelings, related to my own setup and with the tubes in use; as sound's characteristics depiction is inevitably a matter of relativity, I used my SS headamp for direct comparisons and my memory for what I heard from Rudistor RP8, DNA sonett2 and Audiovalve RKV MK2, all gears listened on my hd800 a few months ago; though never heard hugely priced head-amps
Let's go:
analytic impressions:
- sub-bass: no doubt they are there; nevertheless ideally I feel this range could have a tad more spl; however it's not of great importance as music does rarely contain such frequencies; though I regard this range being remarkable coming from a tube amp
-bass: music stands on a firm base: this range is powerful and solid, well damped; texture is present when recording asks for
- upper bass: same as bass, but slightly forward though not at all boomy nor on the border of boominess. I prefer this than the opposite because it gives some mellowness to music; please read "mellow", not "muddy". So I would say that the global bass-range is at the same time round and solid... may be paradoxical but that's how I feel it
- low-mid to upper-mid: accurate and detailed, rich, fluid, no more no less than perfect to my ears
- low-treble: fully detailed and solid but at the same time surprisingly sweet; transition with the upper-mid is tonally perfect
- treble: sometimes some sibilance does yet occur on stock hd800 but not in a metallic/artificial way of sound; just a matter of spl at 6kHz. With my mod this range becomes simply accurate, no haze at all but more smoothness, without lowering its sharp-cutting edge
- upper treble: very extended and pure; the little loss in this range with the mod in place is obvious but this drawback is of less importance vs its benefit; however it shows up how transparent Elise is
- dynamic: Elise has largely enough power to listen to the hd800 at high spl levels without any stress
- transients and damping: admirable! even more admirable is that they are equally distributed on the entire bandwidth
- Finally, the noise: what noise? connected to my burnished CDplayer but without running a CD, volume up to the max (5,5 o'clock) the amp is ABSOLUTLY quiet; that's so special!!
listening impressions:
- a nice tonal balance with stock hd800 at low, average and high listening levels; the intrinsic lean/rising nature of the hd800's sound is here rather compensated by the strong bass range and the smoothness of the upper range; mod in place the tonal balance becomes quite perfect to my ears on the vast majority of my CD collection whatever the spl listened at
- rendered details and inner details allowing to perfectly hear undertones and slight subtleties. Each sound is related to the other in a beautiful "oneness", i.e. the decay of reverberations is perfect, enhancing their presence and substance; combined to the ultra fast transients and absence of noise, the outline of notes and the verity of tones benefit of course from this feature
- an astonishing absence of harshness, even at high listening levels. Long term listening isn't a problem: I sometimes happen to fall asleep while listening even at comfortable levels. Poor recorded tracks are more listenable than on my SS amp and my modified hd800 on Elise is now able to reproduce all types of music with never ending pleasure
- the wide soundstages and pin point imaging of the hd800 are even enhanced by the accuracy and silence of the Elise; some not very audible notes coming from a deep soundstage are quite perfectly heard and magically pictured
Another proof Elise is a top notch amp: the gap between poor and well recorded CDs is so vast that I needed more of a reasonable time to down on its right listening features
In short: it's stunning to hear such potency, speed and refinement at the same time; in this meaning recorded music gets closer to live music because Elise allows to immerge deeply inside the core of music without any drawback... isn't what we name "naturalness"?
Elise's price does absolutely not reflect its huge qualities. Ices on the cake: a marvelous sober design, a faultless finish and a great tuning potential through tube rolling. Thanks and congratulations to Feliks team!
Side notes:
- standard Sovtek 6H8C drivers sound decent, restrained frequency range but not harsh
- I hoped a nice sound from Nos Jan CLRV 6SN7 WGTA drivers (from C.G.E. _General Electric,_ made in Canada): well, all the bandwidth is OK but without the refinement of the Sylvanias and sadly a HUGELY sibilant/harsh treble even on modified hd800
First of all:
About my HP setup:
- Elise has now full break in (100/110 hours); I feel after some 60/70 hours of running sound didn't change any more
- another head-amp: a diy SS one, with added 41ohm resistances at the output to perfectly match the hd800 impedance (I tested R values from 6.8 to 100ohms)
- main source: CDplayer Teac PD501HR; not a high-end gear but very neutral, detailed, with a wide bandwidth
- interconnect: DIY pure single stranded silver wire, silver plated RCA plugs
- stock hd800 cable
About the hd800:
I regard its only flaws being
- a bit too much rolled off sub-bass range but only vs bass champions HP
- the well-known 6kHz peak: a light personal anaxilus mod on my hd800 reduces somewhat this peak without rolling off the upper treble too much; it is made of open cell foam + thin felt, thus something a bit different than the classical closed cell foam felt; I tested around twenty materials/shapes _ with and without measures _before staying at the open cell foam ring + felt sticked only on the center metal ring. In my experience any mod does nibble transparency, one must find the one that nibble the less. For the purpose of this review I listened at my hd800 with and without the mod
- a rather lean/rising global sound, resulting in a loss of flesh and presence; the mod nicely adds weight to the sound, that's intrinsically important... but also because it makes the HP more forgiving to dry recordings
Otherwise a faultless HP with pin point imaging, wide soundstages and clean clean clean overall sound; just a few words for those regarding its " too large of a soundstage width": listen to monophonic tracks to realize it doesn't lie in this area.
About me:
- my long time main hobby is to design passive filtered hifi speakers. So I'm certainly more objectivist than subjectivist; however I know that measurements do obviously not say the last word in audio.
- I prefer searching for emotion inside the recordings; I hate redounding colorations coming from some gears even if they are allowing presumed improved euphony
- to my ears, the most important things are, besides all other qualities, transparency, tonal balance and lack of harshness.
- I listen to many sorts of music/songs, from Gregorian to Asian underground but almost never to symphony and opera; I simply don't like them except sometimes in live events
And don't forget: what follows are my own feelings, related to my own setup and with the tubes in use; as sound's characteristics depiction is inevitably a matter of relativity, I used my SS headamp for direct comparisons and my memory for what I heard from Rudistor RP8, DNA sonett2 and Audiovalve RKV MK2, all gears listened on my hd800 a few months ago; though never heard hugely priced head-amps
Let's go:
analytic impressions:
- sub-bass: no doubt they are there; nevertheless ideally I feel this range could have a tad more spl; however it's not of great importance as music does rarely contain such frequencies; though I regard this range being remarkable coming from a tube amp
-bass: music stands on a firm base: this range is powerful and solid, well damped; texture is present when recording asks for
- upper bass: same as bass, but slightly forward though not at all boomy nor on the border of boominess. I prefer this than the opposite because it gives some mellowness to music; please read "mellow", not "muddy". So I would say that the global bass-range is at the same time round and solid... may be paradoxical but that's how I feel it
- low-mid to upper-mid: accurate and detailed, rich, fluid, no more no less than perfect to my ears
- low-treble: fully detailed and solid but at the same time surprisingly sweet; transition with the upper-mid is tonally perfect
- treble: sometimes some sibilance does yet occur on stock hd800 but not in a metallic/artificial way of sound; just a matter of spl at 6kHz. With my mod this range becomes simply accurate, no haze at all but more smoothness, without lowering its sharp-cutting edge
- upper treble: very extended and pure; the little loss in this range with the mod in place is obvious but this drawback is of less importance vs its benefit; however it shows up how transparent Elise is
- dynamic: Elise has largely enough power to listen to the hd800 at high spl levels without any stress
- transients and damping: admirable! even more admirable is that they are equally distributed on the entire bandwidth
- Finally, the noise: what noise? connected to my burnished CDplayer but without running a CD, volume up to the max (5,5 o'clock) the amp is ABSOLUTLY quiet; that's so special!!
listening impressions:
- a nice tonal balance with stock hd800 at low, average and high listening levels; the intrinsic lean/rising nature of the hd800's sound is here rather compensated by the strong bass range and the smoothness of the upper range; mod in place the tonal balance becomes quite perfect to my ears on the vast majority of my CD collection whatever the spl listened at
- rendered details and inner details allowing to perfectly hear undertones and slight subtleties. Each sound is related to the other in a beautiful "oneness", i.e. the decay of reverberations is perfect, enhancing their presence and substance; combined to the ultra fast transients and absence of noise, the outline of notes and the verity of tones benefit of course from this feature
- an astonishing absence of harshness, even at high listening levels. Long term listening isn't a problem: I sometimes happen to fall asleep while listening even at comfortable levels. Poor recorded tracks are more listenable than on my SS amp and my modified hd800 on Elise is now able to reproduce all types of music with never ending pleasure
- the wide soundstages and pin point imaging of the hd800 are even enhanced by the accuracy and silence of the Elise; some not very audible notes coming from a deep soundstage are quite perfectly heard and magically pictured
Another proof Elise is a top notch amp: the gap between poor and well recorded CDs is so vast that I needed more of a reasonable time to down on its right listening features
In short: it's stunning to hear such potency, speed and refinement at the same time; in this meaning recorded music gets closer to live music because Elise allows to immerge deeply inside the core of music without any drawback... isn't what we name "naturalness"?
Elise's price does absolutely not reflect its huge qualities. Ices on the cake: a marvelous sober design, a faultless finish and a great tuning potential through tube rolling. Thanks and congratulations to Feliks team!
Side notes:
- standard Sovtek 6H8C drivers sound decent, restrained frequency range but not harsh
- I hoped a nice sound from Nos Jan CLRV 6SN7 WGTA drivers (from C.G.E. _General Electric,_ made in Canada): well, all the bandwidth is OK but without the refinement of the Sylvanias and sadly a HUGELY sibilant/harsh treble even on modified hd800
It is very good news that the ECC31 will work in the Elise with the standard eBay adapters! Well done!
However, in terms of sonics, I sincerely doubt that the ECC31 will match the C3g in terms of resolution. But it may well have other attributes that still might seduce you.
And in between classes, coursework and tests, I have been trying to spend some time with the MOV/GEC B36. And while I have not been able to make any comparisons, my ears tell me that it is a terrific tube.
Yes indeed,g, I have a feeling the ECC31 is no match for the C3g's resolution - you said before 'few' tubes can...I suspect they are EXTREMELY few lol! (and certainly none anywhere near the price). The detail they can extract is quite phenomenal - and I use the word advisedly, not as OTT hype. And as you well know, I AM a detail freak...I love to hear everything the recording engineer has managed to capture - warts and all (and boy, are there a lot of warts sometimes!!).
But as, thankfully, the Brit and the German have already fallen in love (even though the Brits outnumber 3 to 1, of course!!) and the Elise amazingly blesses said union, I think I may well be able to have the best of both worlds - the ECC31 does indeed bring slightly more 'lush' mids and an extra dose of bass, but at the cost of a tad note decay, especially in the treble (where the C3g excels). With a few more hours now in this marriage, I'm happy to report the complete absence of argument/tiff/difference of opinion/sulking/ABUSE...is this too good to be true?!!
And as if this isn't cause enough for celebration, postie has just delivered a packet from Moldova..
obviously a lovely Mullard but with translucent coating, not opaque; top mica 'starred' support to glass instead of 'mouse ears'; bottom mica rectangular instead of round; bottom D getter, and no codes. So presumably a later incarnation...
Anyway, now I've got to get a move on and do my permanent job on #1 so I can see just what two 31s do compared to the mixed marriage...should be very interesting...
Oh happy, happy day! (apart from the good lady still ill in bed)...
Ooops...nearly forgot the QTL photos...
Edit...an interesting (old) thread on its ECC32 sister : http://www.head-fi.org/t/536785/ecc32-tube-addicts
Hi a1er...just have to say what a wonderful and thorough review...CHEERS!
...All I can say is with the ECC31/GEC 6AS7G combo in place you would be slavering like a German Shepherd dog diving into a large bowl of tripe (still have nightmares about that!...but HE sure was loving it, lol!!)...
WELL DONE!...the Feliks guys will really appreciate this review, along with the others already in the bag (as do I...). Thanks.
CJ
WELL DONE!...the Feliks guys will really appreciate this review, along with the others already in the bag (as do I...). Thanks.
CJ
agnostic1er
Head-Fier
Hi a1er...just have to say what a wonderful and thorough review...CHEERS!...All I can say is with the ECC31/GEC 6AS7G combo in place you would be slavering like a German Shepherd dog diving into a large bowl of tripe (still have nightmares about that!...but HE sure was loving it, lol!!)...
WELL DONE!...the Feliks guys will really appreciate this review, along with the others already in the bag (as do I...). Thanks.
CJ
Thanks H1!
and
CITIZENLIN
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Hello Jazzv
I just received email from Lukasz. My order is going into TESTING this week.
JazzVinyl
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