Feliks-Audio ELISE...(previously 6SN7 + 6AS7G/6080 prototype)

[Anathema123]

  Hi William
 
Hope you're well. Good news! Your Elise unit is finished and going through testing, expected shipping beginning of next week

 
Good news in my mailbox today!

 

[gibosi]

  The question I have is if the Elise can handle 1.5A tubes as driver tubes. The 6BL7 might be a good driver tube, but when I asked Lukasz if 1.5A tubes can be used as drivers he seemed to indicate that 1A is more suitable. The 6SN7 draws 0,9A so there is a possibility that there is enough capacity to safely drive 1.5A tubes. But I am afraid to try it until somebody tells me what the rating of the transformer is.....

 
Actually, the 6SN7 draws only 0.6A, so it makes sense that they would design for a maximum of 1A. However, within this limit for drivers, you could safely run 5687, all the Little Dot III power tubes, such as 6H30PI and 6H30P-DR, and for those with very fat wallets, the ECC32.
 
A number of folks tried the 6BL7 in their Glenn OTL as a driver, but it appears that the recommended biasing is quite different from the 6SN7 and evidently it didn't sound all that good. So it is likely you are not missing anything.....

 

[mordy]

Thanks Gibosi. Would the same apply to the 6BX7?

 

[gibosi]

  Thanks Gibosi. Would the same apply to the 6BX7?

 
Yeah, the 6BX7 and 6BL7 both draw 1.5A of heater current and are pretty much interchangeable, electrically. However, most seem to think that the 6BL7 sounds better. However, I should say that I do not have either of these tubes and thus I am merely repeating what others have written.
 
Going back to power tubes, I find the Cetron / Tung-Sol 7236 to be a very nice tube, somewhat similar to the Chatham / Tung-Sol 5998 and Bendix 6080. It has a higher mu/gain than the 6AS7/6080, 4.8 versus 2.0, and according to Tung-Sol's datasheet, it was designed to provide long-life service as a power amplifier in computer service. The 7236 is quite rare, but usually not all that expensive as it typically flies under the radar of most buyers. Sylvania also manufactured the 7236, but I find the bass to be relatively weak....
 
With an NU 6F8G
 

 

[Renderman]

   
I am very curious to learn where "real" Philips 6SN7GT where manufactured. Eindhoven? Many of the Philips 6SN7 tubes, GTA and GTB, I see on eBay were manufactured on Russian assembly lines. For example, notice the flying saucer getter on these. And I doubt that they were manufactured in the Netherlands.
 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-X-MATCHED-6SN7GT-GTB-ECC35-6SN7-GT-PHILIPS-NOS-NIB-NEW-TUBES-ROHRE-VALVE-/321803220521

You are right, these look nothing like the Philips 6SN7GT here! The ones i will be getting is from someone that used to work at the Philips plant in Eindhoven (25KM from here) many years ago. He still has quite a few tube amplifiers from the era and these are some of his spares. Will try to take a photo when I can. From what I understand the Clear/Grey glass are somewhat common but the black glass is very rare.

 

[mordy]

Hi Renderman,
 
Sounds very exciting to have a link to the old Philips factory. Where I live in New York State I am only a half hour drive from one of the old Tung Sol factories, but unfortunately there is nothing left of any structures.

 

[Shaffer]

Hi Renderman,

Sounds very exciting to have a link to the old Philips factory. Where I live in New York State I am only a half hour drive from one of the old Tung Sol factories, but unfortunately there is nothing left of any structures.

Where in NY are you? I'm in Rochester.

My family is asleep, the ambient noise level is next to nil, and the wee little power tubes make their way into the Elise. This time of day, or night as the case may be, the tubes show truly impressive dynamics and a rather remarkable overall sense of slam. I use them with HD600, as it's the most sensitive/easy to drive can I have. The AD900x and K550 should be easier to handle, given their low-z and relatively high sensitivity, but these tubes really don't seem to like a low-z HP.

The bottles sound exciting and involving, not unlike driving a lightweight, low-power roadster - the mechanical bond between the driver and the machine is fully fleshed out, even though one isn't moving all that fast. I'm running my usual 7N7s up front. The overall effect is relatively neutral, tonally, with zero sibilance, extended highs, pretty transparent mids, and the aforementioned dynamic swing that simply has to be experienced. All this is only possible in a very quiet environment.

I've been working with the DV336SE, trying to get handle on the thing. It hates low-z cans, but it does love to hum very loudly with almost every driver tube I have. Thankfully, the 7N7s are completely quiet. I'm not really ready to discuss it, but I will say that the Elise is worth every cent of its premium, comparatively speaking. This isn't to say that the DV doesn't have some redeeming qualities, some of which (very few, actually) better the Elise.

^^^Did I get everyone's attention with the last sentence?

 

[Renderman]

Hi mordy, here in Eindhoven there used to be a huge Philips presence, huge terrains and buildings even worker housing. Most of the buildings have been repurposed or demolished now. It's rare to find someone who actually worked there and has some actual tube stock. Will let you know if I uncover any interesting tubes gibosi mentioned to look for ECC40 and E80CC, I will update here if there are any interesting finds

 

[2359glenn]

 

  Thanks Gibosi. Would the same apply to the 6BX7?

 
Yeah, the 6BX7 and 6BL7 both draw 1.5A of heater current and are pretty much interchangeable, electrically. However, most seem to think that the 6BL7 sounds better. However, I should say that I do not have either of these tubes and thus I am merely repeating what others have written.
 
Going back to power tubes, I find the Cetron / Tung-Sol 7236 to be a very nice tube, somewhat similar to the Chatham / Tung-Sol 5998 and Bendix 6080. It has a higher mu/gain than the 6AS7/6080, 4.8 versus 2.0, and according to Tung-Sol's datasheet, it was designed to provide long-life service as a power amplifier in computer service. The 7236 is quite rare, but usually not all that expensive as it typically flies under the radar of most buyers. Sylvania also manufactured the 7236, but I find the bass to be relatively weak....
 
With an NU 6F8G
 

I have made amps that use the 6BX7 and 6BL7 as the out put tubes. It uses 6 of them 3 per channel in parallel.
They sound better then any 6AS7 the amp will also use 2 or4  6AS7s or 2 6336. only made a couple of these.  

 

[SonicTrance]

  Hi mordy, here in Eindhoven there used to be a huge Philips presence, huge terrains and buildings even worker housing. Most of the buildings have been repurposed or demolished now. It's rare to find someone who actually worked there and has some actual tube stock. Will let you know if I uncover any interesting tubes gibosi mentioned to look for ECC40 and E80CC, I will update here if there are any interesting finds

I don't have an Elise but if he has any nice pairs of ECC35's I'd be very interested. I've found them to be one of my favorite driver in my LD MK6. Though I'm pretty sure all those ECC35's branded "Philips made in Holland" were actually made in the UK by Mullard, but not sure. The ones I got are made in the UK.
 

 

[Renderman]

  I don't have an Elise but if he has any nice pairs of ECC35's I'd be very interested. I've found them to be one of my favorite driver in my LD MK6. Though I'm pretty sure all those ECC35's branded "Philips made in Holland" were actually made in the UK by Mullard, but not sure. The ones I got are made in the UK.

Not sure about ECC35 but he at least has some ECC40, if anyone is interested i'm willing to buy an extra pair. Should fit the Elise with a simple adapter.

 

[Renderman]

Other tubes this guy has available are: Philips ECF80, Philips E180F, Philips E83F,  Philips ECC40, RFT Philips EF40, Philips E88CC. Most all of them new, unused in unopened boxes. If anyone here is interested, shoot me a pm.

 

[gibosi]

  Other tubes this guy has available are: Philips ECF80, Philips E180F, Philips E83F,  Philips ECC40, RFT Philips EF40, Philips E88CC. Most all of them new, unused in unopened boxes. If anyone here is interested, shoot me a pm.

 
Off the top of my head, only the ECC40 and E88CC will work in the Elise.

 

[Renderman]

   
Off the top of my head, only the ECC40 and E88CC will work in the Elise.

Yes that's correct gibosi, thanks for making that clear Maybe some other tube lovers still one some of the other tubes.
 
I bought an extra pair of ECC40 if anyone is interested.

 

[gibosi]

  I bought an extra pair of ECC40 if anyone is interested.
 

 
Do you have them now? If so, can you make out the production codes? It is on the bottom around the pins.
 
For example, LC2 45G: LC = ECC40 and 2 = change code.  4= Endhoven, 5 = year, and G = month, so July, 1955.
 
The codes on earlier tubes are less intuitive. For example: LCC 5P. Again, LC = ECC40 and C = batch code. 5 = Eindhoven and P = month, so December, 1951.
 
(It appears that the ECC40 was manufactured on two separate assembly lines in the Eindhoven factory, #4 and #5.) 
 
http://tubedata.milbert.com/other/Philips/PhilipsCodeListAB-v10.pdf