[jude]

Quote:

Originally posted by Neruda I'm puzzled as to how no one seemed to respond to what Bakhtiar said about listening to the CD3000 with the earcups off. He said that all that echo-y stuff you guys hate was still there. So it's not the headphones themselves pruducing that effect, it's got to be the recording. At least that's how I see it...

Or it could be the headphones independent of the earcups. I've not heard the 3000's, but if a lot of people have heard them with recordings familiar to them (recordings likely heard over several systems, speaker and headphone), my guess is that the headphones might likely have something to do with it if several people are hearing it.

 

[markl]

I don't think that's what Bakhtiar said:

"I had tried listening with my CD3000m with the cups removed. Yes, the bass level is down and the sound stage also getting narrower, but other than that, everthings just like normal. "

I don't think he said he heard those reverberations, he merely noted that the bass sound didn't change much as a result of removing the cups.

markl

 

[Vka]

I have already said that perhaps the words echo and reverberation is too strong of a word to use. But if you listen very very carefully, don't you find that the sound in the cd-3000 tend to stay a bit longer giving it alot of ambience. In almost a way, its like the effect of closed phones but with a huge soundstage. For example, when you closed the HD-600s with tape, you get the effect of the sound staying longer. thats why I tend to hear ALOT more surrounding detail in the CD-3000 than other phones I have tried. Is because the sound is merely staying longer?
Perhaps a better word for this is the *Auditorium effect* to me.
Too many, the auditorium effect on the sound may seem extremely natural, but to me its unnatural. Again, this is personal preference so my opinion is obvious not to be taken seriously. Afterall, I still liked the CD-3000s very much and would have kept it if not for financial reasons.

Anyhow, I would have a say this was a great discussion. Its been awhile since I posted anything since I have been sooo busy testing out many headphones and headphone amps. The end is pretty near

I have tried almost all the top dynamic headphones except the R10s and Vertigo has tried all of them too except the AKG-1000s.
Hey Vertigo, what do you say we swap headphones AKG-1000 for R10s for a week heheheh

 

[Neruda]

and if I know anything at all about you two, it won't be too long till each of you gets the last headphone you need. man, what's going to happen when all these companies come out with new headphones? You're both going to have to start all over again!

 

[beowulf]

Quote:

Originally posted by markl .. Anyone who says "all Sony phones suck", either has a hidden agenda, a bias against Sony, or simply hasn't heard these phones. They are definitely in the same league in terms of performance as the ER4S, RS1, and HD600. ... Much, much "larger" soundstage than the HD600s. You are moved to front row center. The sound is more "immediate" and "faster" than the HD600s. Left to right imaging exceeds that of the HD600s which already did a great job ... The Sonys have an amazing clarity that makes horns, trumpets and female vocals sound just fantastic. ... Overall, very impressed with the Sony CD3000 and wouldn't hesitate to recommend it. In some areas I believe it bests the HD600.

Great job. It's about time someone compared the two directly. I do like Sennheiser's best products, but I think that all those comments "what? you paid how much for a SONY?! Are you crazy? The Sennheiser HD600 completely blows it away" are really coming from intensely misguided people.
Like you seemed to show, they are both excellent, yet, different.

I do think that the only problem with the CD3000 is that they have "Sony" printed on the earcups.

 

[mbriant]

quote from bakhtiar:

"By the way, how can humans can hear FLAT sounds, when human's ear also have it's own sound characteristics?"


According to the "experts" who used to write for me, headphones are engineered to NOT produce a flat frequency response....this is to adjust for the loss of outer ear reflections which changes the sound before it reaches our eardrums under normal (non-headphone) listening conditions.

Headphones in fact are intentionally made to be non-flat, but to fit within a desired frequency envelope which has been pre-determined based on the "average ear's" hearing response. Loudspeakers on the other hand, because we listen to them as we do most sounds (using the outer ear) do strive for a flat frequency response. ( at least the manufacturers which are trying to be accurate do)

bakhtiar is correct in saying that each of us hears slightly diferently. Some of that difference is due to differences in the size and shape of our outer ears. Headphones, which are trying to compensate for the loss of outer ear influences by adjusting their frequency output, can only approximate what the final result will be......based on a hypothetical, typical outer ear effect.

That's one of the reasons some people think headphone "A" has too much bass, others think too little, and others think it's perfect. Age, hearing damage, an individual's genetic make-up, and personal preferences are other reasons.

OR....HEADPHONE "A" DOES INDEED HAVE TOO MUCH, TOO LITTLE, OR PERFECT BASS.

I'm going to try to dig out the two back issues in which this particular article appeared. If I can find it, I will publish it here on Head - Fi. Much of the testing was done at the acoustics division of the National Research Council's testing facilities in Ottawa.

 

[markl]

Excellent, thanks mbriant. That should make for very interesting reading.

markl

 

[flashbak]

What we need to do is get Don Wilson from Etymotic envolved in this discussion! He can certainly shed some light on this subject! I referenced Don to this site so I know he visits. Don you out there?

 

[Neruda]

Man, all this talk about the CD3000! I really want to hear these phones...

Hey budgie! Any chance we could hook up? (no, not like that you sicko

)

 

[chych]

Speaking of Don, has anyone compared the CD3000s to the Etys?

 

[Vka]

Oh, yes I have.... But does it really matter now since *some people think headphone "A" has too much of this, others think too little, and others think it's perfect.*

 

[Neruda]

Oh, come on! I want to know how you think they compare!

 

[thomas]

From what i've read, (probably on headwize) the "auditorium effect" can't be caused by the earcups. The earcups are way too small for there to be any noticable time delay between the orignal and reflected sound.

It could be a result of greater accuracy, that is revealing the reverberations that were recorded but can't be reproduced properly by any other headphone. However, considering how good those other headphones are, i doubt that this is the case.

Instead, it could be cause by a slight peak in the frequency response that emphisises those reverberations. I sometimes hear a similar effect with my Sony e888's, which use the same biocellulose in the diaphagmns. I haven't heard the cd-3000s, but to my ears, the HD-600's are remarkably flat and i don't think they are missing out on anything....

BTW, these sony's sound very interesting, and i'll finding a place to audition them... thx for the review...

 

[Neruda]

There's a "sony only" store near me, maybe they have a pair I could audition. Then again, they probably need a good amp...

 

[mbriant]

quote:

"Oh, yes I have.... But does it really matter now since *some people think headphone "A" has too much of this, others think too little, and others think it's perfect.*"

Vka: Do you feel we all hear identically? Does everyone talk identically? Walk identically? Think identically? See identically?

Actually, reviews are still valuable and important. We simply have to realize that another person may be hearing something we don't or vice versa.

Just as in any type of review....be it music, movie, or whatever....we can still seek out reviewers with a "like-mindset" or in the case of headphones.....similar tastes and hopefully, similar hearing response.

I bought two pairs of headphones based solely on advice from people on the headwize forum....and wasn't disappointed in either.