[Snoodge]

The only way that I would even consider using an upgraded power cable is if it was to connect a component between the component itself and something like a PS Audio Power Plant. Since the PS would be regenerating brand new "perfect" power, then imo it would be worth the effort to keep the power signal as in tact as possible on the way to the component. But anything short of that I definitely couldnt justify.

 

[tiberian]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon L Just go out and buy some Chris VH cords off Agon and see what they do for you. I've heard many, many cords in my lifetime, and these are bar none the best bang for the buck cords out there, able to compete with the best available on many levels. I recommend the recipe 1 for your CDP and recipe 4 for you integrated amp. If you don't hear a clear improvement over stock 14 AWG molded cords, well...

jon, what plugs do you recommend for the flavor 4? i have tried gold and rhodium plated furutech plugs and the rhodium plated plugs are quite bright in my rig...

 

[nanahachi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Illah ... I can't justify paying all sorts of money for these things.

I can understand and appreciate your perspective. You do not have your rig listed in your profile, so I will base my comments on my own system and beliefs.

First off, I’m a believer in “garbage in, garbage out.” If you can’t tell much of a difference between amps, for instance, it could be due to similarities between the amps’ performance, but it could also be due to limitations in the source. Once one’s source is no longer the weak link, one can move on to amps and find the best match for their tastes. Synergy makes a big difference, as some amps sound great in one rig, but not in another. Like Wodgy said, you have to trust your ears and find what sounds best in YOUR rig.

Once the amp and source are maxed out (by which I mean the best you can achieve within your constraints), one can tweak performance with the cables that feed components, the interconnects (ICs) and power cords (PCs). Sorry to make this sound too rudimentary, but just as the quality of CDPs and amps makes a difference, so too does the material used in ICs. Silver, copper, gold, various alloys…they each can flavor the sound in a different way. The same is true of construction and materials in power cords. The gauge of copper used, the way the ground wire is inserted, the amount or lack of shielding each affects the way the CDPs and amps get their juice. Maybe think of it like this, although it’s a poor analogy. A person can drink fruit punch, and gets H2O, sugar, and maybe a few nutrients. Or, one could drink vitamin fortified milk or orange juice, which have less “crap” in them and more vitamins, minerals, and nutrients that allow the human body to function better. I know this analogy is weak and flawed, but both types of drinks can feed the body. My point is that some do so better than others. (I’ll see if I can think of a different way of putting this)

I spent about an hour on the phone with Michael Wolff (aka Wolffy) last week, and he explained to me in detail how his power cords worked. In short, the way the cord is constructed affects the juice that goes into the component (e.g. CDP), and thus affect the way the component operates. I don’t understand why, but really, through trying different PCs I hear different sounds in my system. Not to sound stuck up, but my system is a pretty good one, and at this point the only tweaks I can make are to cabling and power issues. It would NOT make sense to have a mid-fi or low-fi system and worry about power issues, as money would be more effectively spent on the source/amp/headphones, and then cables much later.

It’s frustrating not being able to describe how powercords work, but really, they have the potential make a difference.

 

[Lilac_Wine]

Quote:

Silver, copper, gold, various alloys…they each can flavor the sound in a different way.

In what way? How does a silver power cord sound as compared to a copper power cord?

I have not heard silver power cords, so I am not saying you are wrong. I am simply asking for a description of the sound difference between materials. Using a number of cheap power cords, I heard no difference.

Quote:

the way the ground wire is inserted

What does this mean? It seems like you may be concerned with inductance issues, but I can not really tell. How are good ground wires inserted?

 

[HiGHFLYiN9]

Here's some nice links:

Check out this thread on the Asylum:
http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/cab...ges/82423.html

Also Jon Risch has posted opinions of PCs on his website:
http://www.geocities.com/jonrisch/ac-cords.htm

More from the Asylum:
http://www.AudioAsylum.com/audio/cab...ges/13538.html

 

[nanahachi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by me ...so [too] does the material used in ICs. Silver, copper, gold, various alloys…they each can flavor the sound in a different way.

Silver, copper, gold, etc refers to ICs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by me the way the ground wire is inserted

different cable manufacturers insert the ground differently, for their own reasons. For instance, VenHaus Audio wraps the ground around the copper cable in their powercords. For more info, you'll have to do some research, such as the links above.

 

[NotoriousBIG_PJ]

I've owned cables of all 3 types of wire material for ic's and pc's. The pc's effect the flavour/tone of the sound a lot less in my experience.

Biggie.

 

[tortie]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RHMMMM I can see changing interconnects and speaker wire, but power cables? I don't get it. Do expensive power cables make any difference other than aesthetics and the right to claim "I spent $1k on that power cable"?

Maybe they make a difference maybe they dont, but you have to understand that $1K to some will feel like $10 to others since prices will always be relative to someones expendible income. So while the pricing might be crazy for some, it would be peanuts for others.

 

[Jon L]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tiberian jon, what plugs do you recommend for the flavor 4? i have tried gold and rhodium plated furutech plugs and the rhodium plated plugs are quite bright in my rig...

You know, you are risking being called a real lunatic by suggesting power PLUGS sound different in a thread that's arguing over entire power cords!

Haven't tried the VH cords with Rhodium plated plugs, so I can't say. The Wattgates seemed to sound great and wasn't bright.

Even though I've tried VH cords, I actually just make my DIY cords using Belden 83802 wire (same as VH, except flavor 4) and my own geometry that fits my tastes, which are shotgun double run per leg. "Hot" and "neutral" runs are spaced apart. I'm cheap and use Marinco plugs, and there's nothing wrong with how they sound

 

[Hirsch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wodgy There are two opposing viewpoints which will never be resolved. On one hand, there are single-blind tests (and occasionally double-blind tests) showing that power cords don't make a difference, even expensive ones like the Nordost Valhallas. On the other hand, the power cable believers are adamant that they do make a big difference in real-world listening, for reasons that are difficult to explain but readily apparent to them. Then there's the occasional middle ground. Virtual Dynamics power cables, for instance, are made of garden hose filled with ferrous aquarium pebbles, with the conductors threaded through the middle. It's possible that the ferrous pebbles act as ferrites and filter out high frequency interference, giving the cables a genuine scientific explanation. Basically, though, you have to trust your ears.

Exactly so.

I disagree that there will never be a resolution. Science progresses, and some of it filters down to audio. Whether the science that will make the breakthrough is electrical engineering or psychology is still debatable, though.

Incidentally, the "filler" in the VD cables is intended to damp mechanical vibration, not as an RFI filter. Different materials are used as you move up the line. I don't know why that works, but my ears tell me that it does.

 

[Wodgy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hirsch Incidentally, the "filler" in the VD cables is intended to damp mechanical vibration, not as an RFI filter. Different materials are used as you move up the line. I don't know why that works, but my ears tell me that it does.

I suspect the RFI filter explanation is more accurate as to what's really happening. Rick at VD sometimes has a tenuous grip on the actual science (remember "speed of light technology"?) but it doesn't matter either way as long as it works. He didn't invent his cables anyway; God told him how to make them.

 

[tortie]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wodgy He didn't invent his cables anyway; God told him how to make them.

LOL. Very true