[kvik]

 

[zarkow]

Something new for you?

 

[kvik]

Yes, it is sort of in transit, meaning Wieslaw shipped it to a friend of mine, where it will stay for a couple of weeks, before it continues its journey to me.

It is the 4P1L project I mentioned a while back, a fully differential, all-DHT design, based on 4P1L solely. The original idea was to use 2P29L as input tubes, but Wieslaw eventually decided on 4P1L instead. 8 chokes in the power supply, 14 separate power supplies, Miflex KPCU caps, TKD potentiometers.

 

[slex]

Just in, weigh an hefty 7KG. Model under H27M.

 

[roderickvd]

Seriously considering ordering one. Having read all pages, I could still use your buying advice.

I'll be pairing with high-Z cans only: Beyer 250 ohm Amiron Home and 600 ohm T1.2, don't need the preamp out. Power should not be an issue as I only need 620 mV / 0.6 mW to listen at 100 dB SPL. So that strikes off any necessity for dual monos.

So I'm now considering a H5 (with Miflex caps), H7 but also the H20 that hasn't been written much about.

H5 + Miflex: basically an upgraded Crack. Should sound syrupy warm.
H7: tighter power regulation but foregoing the richness of the Miflex. Should sound cleaner than the H5, maybe more like a Feliks Elise.
H20: separate PSU's for each tube and few components in the signal path. Little rolling options. May sound very linear -- can anyone confirm?

What do you think?

 

[zarkow]

I can comment just H5 Miflex with HD600. It can sound euphonic, but like SS amp aswell, it really depends on tubes, which you use.
If I have "better" headphones than HD600 (ZMF for example) and budget, I will go for dual mono configuration.

 

[LobalWarming]

Seriously considering ordering one. Having read all pages, I could still use your buying advice.

I'll be pairing with high-Z cans only: Beyer 250 ohm Amiron Home and 600 ohm T1.2, don't need the preamp out. Power should not be an issue as I only need 620 mV / 0.6 mW to listen at 100 dB SPL. So that strikes off any necessity for dual monos.

So I'm now considering a H5 (with Miflex caps), H7 but also the H20 that hasn't been written much about.

H5 + Miflex: basically an upgraded Crack. Should sound syrupy warm.
H7: tighter power regulation but foregoing the richness of the Miflex. Should sound cleaner than the H5, maybe more like a Feliks Elise.
H20: separate PSU's for each tube and few components in the signal path. Little rolling options. May sound very linear -- can anyone confirm?

What do you think?

I try to avoid giving or taking advise on the internet... however, Head-Fi is exempt from such guidelines...

First, you or me would want to decide which family of driver tubes you want to dedicate your funds to. Not all your funds - but most.

The 6SN7 presentation is very different to the kiddie's ECC88/E88CC/5670 tubes. Generally - which has many exceptions - 6SN7/6J5s have a more relaxed presentation which invites the listener (me) inside the music. The minis are so adorable - so frisky with those little bitty plates and splashy look-at-me details!

Which family you enjoy most is key to amp selection. That's the most vital point of a headphone system. Personal listening enjoyment. At least for me.

I chose the H5 with the 6SN7 family - because it's a bigger and dare I say, happier family - especially when adopting the Twins; 6J5/6C5/6P5 relations. And I already had hundreds in the 6SN7 clan. However, I also enjoy spending time with the little miniature cost-down descendants. Easy to use a ECC81/82/88/E80CC with a 6SN7 adapter when my ears feel the need to get small.

Do you enjoy tube rolling? I do. For me, it's the key attraction to tubes - shifting the tonal balance and spatial presentation based on mood and music. But mainly mood - I'm fickle - sometimes only big spacious warmth will do - other times I want to hear laser-etched precision - but without the flat 2D solid state vibekiller.

As mentioned above - the H5-Miflex can be warm and syrupy - with the right (wrong?) tubes like a RCA grey glass 6SN7 driving a RCA 6AS7. However, with a pair of NU 7A4s driving a 7236 or E80CC/ED8000 or CV455/A2293 combo, there's vivid details most SS amps miss or at best present as harsh and fatiguing. The H5-Miflex is versatile. Clean and startling crisp or warm smoky honied sonic syrup and the range in-between - it's yours to roll.

Second - power. It's heresy at Head-Fi to claim there's a low limit to upper power for a headphone amp. I'm a power heretic. Hear me whisper!

A single 6BX7 can easily play my Beyers/Senns to deafening levels. IMO, the point of running pairs of high current (6080/6AS7) AC Regulator tubes, is for ear-peen. Or for achieving premature deafness sooner. I've worked for years in recording/editing studios and often used phones - and without great care - can cause permanent hearing damage. But, your ears, your hearing loss.

When I was discussing an amp build with Wieslaw went through some options - decided on a Half-Flex H5, so I could cap roll as well as tube roll.

After spending dozens hundreds of hours weeks, would be able to decide if there was an optimized build for a specific driver/output combo - initially hoped it would be CV133/A2293 - but not so far. Still... an H20 with a dedicated 6SN7 socket and a CV455 socket for input using A2293/CV4079s for output could be a future build.

Spoiler Alert: The Miflex KPCU are among the best film caps at a very reasonable price. But, like tubes, there's many other sublime flavours to sample.

The H5-Miflex is a vast improvement in clarity over the basic H5 to my ears. The stock H5 is more like a Crack - warm, but loses details and subtlety.

I've rambled for paragraphs without offering anything useful. That's why we love Head-Fi. We come for the signal - we stay for the noise.

If you choose the H7 or H20, my advise - given freely on the internet and worth the entry price - is to consider cap upgrades - either with Miflex KPCU bypasses as in the H5-Miflex - or built with dangly leads so you too can enjoy the thrill (and agony) of cap rolling every moment of your waking life. Not every - have to save some time (and lots of money) for tube rolling.

Enjoy the journey! There is no 'best' way to arrive. Just the path you enjoy most.

 

[bpiotrow13]

The 6SN7 presentation is very different to the kiddie's ECC88/E88CC/5670 tubes. Generally - which has many exceptions - 6SN7/6J5s have a more relaxed presentation which invites the listener (me) inside the music. The minis are so adorable - so frisky with those little bitty plates and splashy look-at-me details!

Which family you enjoy most is key to amp selection.

Very well said. While i think Woo audio wa2 (and wa3) is the most beautiful OTL i just did not find pleasure in listening to it.

Intetesting what You mentioned about Crack being warm. I am contemplating crack or h5 miflex as my desktop setup with hd650 (maybe zmf aeolus in future). Have You heard Crack with upgraded caps? Is the difference the same as H5 and H5 Miflex?

 

[roderickvd]

I try to avoid giving or taking advise on the internet... however, Head-Fi is exempt from such guidelines...

I kindly gather experience from others, then am sure to pass my own judgement.

First, you or me would want to decide which family of driver tubes you want to dedicate your funds to. Not all your funds - but most.

The 6SN7 presentation is very different to the kiddie's ECC88/E88CC/5670 tubes. Generally - which has many exceptions - 6SN7/6J5s have a more relaxed presentation which invites the listener (me) inside the music. The minis are so adorable - so frisky with those little bitty plates and splashy look-at-me details!

Which family you enjoy most is key to amp selection. That's the most vital point of a headphone system. Personal listening enjoyment. At least for me.

This is a good perspective. I have little experience with tube rolling. Before, I have owned excellent solid-state amps and I still do. I am looking to compliment them with something different. Your take on the 6N8S/6SN7 versus the 6N1P/ECC88 might tilt that in favour of the H5. I know I am generalising.

A previous stint with an Xduoo TA-20 did not last for long. It just sounded like a mediocre solid-state amp. I tried a couple of different 12AU7's and they all sounded pretty linear. I put in a Philips Heerlen E80CC and that one sounded off, bloated. I came to conclude that hybrids are not what I was looking for.

Do you enjoy tube rolling? I do. For me, it's the key attraction to tubes - shifting the tonal balance and spatial presentation based on mood and music. But mainly mood - I'm fickle - sometimes only big spacious warmth will do - other times I want to hear laser-etched precision - but without the flat 2D solid state vibekiller.

Knowing me I will probably try and order a couple of different tubes, then settle on something I like. I don't think that I will change tubes depending on mood or music -- for that I will just switch to my solid-state amp.

Second - power. It's heresy at Head-Fi to claim there's a low limit to upper power for a headphone amp. I'm a power heretic. Hear me whisper!

A single 6BX7 can easily play my Beyers/Senns to deafening levels. IMO, the point of running pairs of high current (6080/6AS7) AC Regulator tubes, is for ear-peen. Or for achieving premature deafness sooner. I've worked for years in recording/editing studios and often used phones - and without great care - can cause permanent hearing damage. But, your ears, your hearing loss.

I don't listen at ear piercing levels. Power will not be an issue. I even run my solid-state amp at unity gain.

The H5-Miflex is a vast improvement in clarity over the basic H5 to my ears. The stock H5 is more like a Crack - warm, but loses details and subtlety.

For sure, if I go H5 then it will be an H5-Miflex.

If you choose the H7 or H20, my advise - given freely on the internet and worth the entry price - is to consider cap upgrades - either with Miflex KPCU bypasses as in the H5-Miflex - or built with dangly leads so you too can enjoy the thrill (and agony) of cap rolling every moment of your waking life. Not every - have to save some time (and lots of money) for tube rolling.

You and I both know how expensive cap rolling can get that is something I am more experienced with.

 

[LobalWarming]

Very well said. While i think Woo audio wa2 (and wa3) is the most beautiful OTL i just did not find pleasure in listening to it.

Intetesting what You mentioned about Crack being warm. I am contemplating crack or h5 miflex as my desktop setup with hd650 (maybe zmf aeolus in future). Have You heard Crack with upgraded caps? Is the difference the same as H5 and H5 Miflex?

If you like to tinker and willing to spend about $500 upgrading the Crack expect it would be comparable to the $500ish H5-Miflex. If you can get a Crack for free, it's an equal value.

The H5 has a beefy power supply for a low cost unit - each tube section has its own choke and good filtering. Natively supports 6SN7 family. That was key for me. And the Miflex caps - extremely good value in the horrid-value high-end cap market.

 

[bpiotrow13]

If you like to tinker and willing to spend about $500 upgrading the Crack expect it would be comparable to the $500ish H5-Miflex. If you can get a Crack for free, it's an equal value.

The H5 has a beefy power supply for a low cost unit - each tube section has its own choke and good filtering. Natively supports 6SN7 family. That was key for me. And the Miflex caps - extremely good value in the horrid-value high-end cap market.

No doubt h5 is a good deal. What is tempting about Crack is that i can have some fun building it myself. It would not be my main setup (i have custom dual mono OTL for my ZMF Verite) so i have no pressure here for best price/performance ratio. Just want to have some fun with hd650 (and maybe zmf aeolus later).

Do I understand correctly that H5 has better power supply than crack (i do not want speedball upgrade)?

From my experience ecc82 (crack) can be as good as 6sn7 (h5). You can always use ecc82/6sn7 adapter as those tubes are interchangeable.

 

[jonathan c]

Very well said. While i think Woo audio wa2 (and wa3) is the most beautiful OTL i just did not find pleasure in listening to it.

With 6922s in the driver tube sockets, sound is OK. With 12AT7s / ECC81s via adapters in the driver tube sockets (and Raytheon 6080WCs / Tung Sol 5998s as power tubes), sound is sublime!

 

[LobalWarming]

No doubt h5 is a good deal. What is tempting about Crack is that i can have some fun building it myself. It would not be my main setup (i have custom dual mono OTL for my ZMF Verite) so i have no pressure here for best price/performance ratio. Just want to have some fun with hd650 (and maybe zmf aeolus later).

Do I understand correctly that H5 has better power supply than crack (i do not want speedball upgrade)?

From my experience ecc82 (crack) can be as good as 6sn7 (h5). You can always use ecc82/6sn7 adapter as those tubes are interchangeable.

I'd say the H5 has a much better power supply compared to the stock Crack - better filtering - independent per section - multiple caps with 4 chokes. The Crack supply is quite basic - it's their entry level kit after all. However, the fun of building your own amp and spending hours learning about cold joints and how to fix them is its own reward.

Check the 700+ page Crack thread - it's a quick read - for upgrade ideas. Those include film output and bypass caps. Upgrade/augment power supply caps - add choke(s). Cree diode mod. Pot replacement; Alps, TkD, stepped attenuator. Probably to wise to stop at the $500 mark. Heard a Crack with over $1500 of passive parts, no speedball - it was very good - near Teton level.

Or.. consider the Crackatwoa - it's Bottlehead's own Crack upgrade - but a more complex DIY build.

Alternatively, could ask Wieslaw about shipping you a board, couple bags of parts, some unfinished wood and a 2 sentence how-to brochure.

Only a few 12AU7s (CV4003, G73r) can match a better 6SN7 for the characteristics I enjoy. IMO, a pair of GEC CV133s (the single plate parent of the 12AU7) is the best 12AU7. Just as some say a pair of 6J5s or 7A4s is the best 6SN7. Of course, there is no 'best' tube - only the best opinion* about the best tube.

* opinion subject to change without notice.

 

[bpiotrow13]

@LobalWarming many thanks! Neeed to think it over.

Only a few 12AU7s (CV4003, G73r) can match a better 6SN7 for the characteristics

I use Mullards cv4003, thanks for other suggestions!

 

[roderickvd]

After a quick chat with Wieslaw on Etsy, I just pulled the trigger on a H7 + Miflex KPCU. Yes you read that right