[sapphiremodena]

Quote:

Originally posted by M Rael But opinions CAN be wrong.

Not in my opinion!

 

[MooGoesTheCow]

Joe,

How do the etys sound on your various amps? Although I don't have enough amps for testing, I strongly believe they sound their best on the more powerful amps. On a portable, they seem to have a weaker bass response, overly smooth midrange, and a recessed treble. But on a powerful amp, all these things go away, and what you're left with is a headphone you never want to take out. Especially for poopy roommates

 

[M Rael]

Quote:

Originally posted by Neruda That's not an opinion, that's a conclusion drawn from the information available at that time in history

I disagree: the vast majority of individual people didnt draw conclusions from information- they based their opinion (on the shape of the world) on heresay. Common people 'went along with' the flat earth idea because they assumed other people knew what was true, thus they held the same opinion, in order not to appear ignorant.

 

[chych]

You mean, they made an assumption from other people's conclusions and accepted it as fact... its just a wrong fact... still not an opinion

 

[M Rael]

Quote:

Originally posted by chych ... its just a wrong fact... still not an opinion

Roundness was only later proved to be 'fact'. At the time, flatness was held to be (likely) true. Therefore: opinions can be (proved later) to be incorrect. Facts only become facts after the fact (!) ..and sometimes not at all.

What you are calling 'an opinion', I would class as mere preference.

 

[rohorn]

Suppose you wanted a car, so you decided to go to what is supposed to be the best car dealership with the best cars around - The local Ferrari / Lotus dealership just up the road. But you had a Ford Fairmont station wagon. You thought the Fairmont was a pretty good car. But the guys at the dealership not only bad mouthed it, they wouldn't even sell you a Faimont, because they (idiots!!) refuse to sell them. Why, they won't sell you a station wagon made by Ferrari OR Lotus!! Morons!!

Who do they think they are!! Since when does anybody have the right to pick and choose what they sell, especially if it is based on something as meaningless as an opinion?

I trust that dealership as far as I can throw them. Don't they know that they (along with the rest of the human race) has an OBLIGATION to alter their views to fit mine and not offend my sensibilities in any way? Besides, as an American, I have the right to having my consumer choices go unquestioned as being anything less than the most sound lest my self esteem (which is entirely based on the official United States religion - Materialism!!) be torn asunder.

 

[rohorn]

Must....regain....composure....


Anyway, my ER-4S 'phones have eliminated most of my desire to try anything else. That leaves only the AKG 501 which I would like to try some time. Has anybody here spent more than a few hours with both of these models - and have an OPINION to offer?

 

[Neruda]

M Rael, you're crazy dude!

Look. Back in 1200 AD, people weren't having discussions that went like "well, it seems to be that the world is round, and gravity is what's keeping us attached to it." "no, I honestly think that the world is flat. If it were round, people would roll off." "well, that's your opinion I suppose." They had nothing to go on! What did they see? a seemingly flat surface. If I took a look at the HD600's and said, "those are open cans" would that be my opinion? or a fact? Maybe someday they'll prove that HD600's are closed, but for now I think most people will accept that the HD600's are open

 

[dhwilkin]

You guys do realize that each side is arguing based off a different definition of 'opinion', right? Here's part of the entry for 'opinion' in the Merriam-Webster dictionary: OPINION implies a conclusion thought out yet open to dispute <each expert seemed to have a different opinion>. VIEW suggests a subjective opinion <very assertive in stating his views>. M Rael is using the first definition, everybody else is using (what is, in my "opinion"

, the more common usage) the second definition. So if you guys can't agree, you're just going to go around in circles, wasting everybody's time.

Question: Have the Headroom people heard the 3000? Because I'm sure they've heard the 501s, which they also "badmouth"

, and if they've heard the 3000, then I see nothing wrong w/ expressing that opinion on their website.

 

[Tim D]

What are you guys arguing about anyways?

Anyhow MRael has a good point...but Headroom can do whatever they want, and if they say that selling Sony products is a pain in the ass...than maybe its true and people can continue buying CD3k's from online camera shops. I mean there should be some good reason why CD3K's only show up in cookie-cutter online e-tailers.

On the otherhand Headroom uses the Sony CD3k in their normalization of "best sounding headphones". As in top 11 headphones...so it can't be that bad.

Does it really matter to anyone if they sell the Sony CD3k or not...I bet the price they sell it at would still be around $400 given Sony standardization...so why does it really matter. I do think they should publish any/all graphs that they used in normalization.

Headroom also continues to recommend Panasonic portables a lot...even when we all know the some of the latest ones (no line-out) have a somewhat bad trend going on. They would probably admit that the panasonic portables they recommend aren't always the "best", but they sure are better than most of the competition that is "easily" or newly available on the market to get. So do you advertise what is good and easily available...or tell people to find something on ebay.

Headroom is probably one of the least biased headphone specialized dealers (not that there are really many). Yah Sony 3K's are probably pretty good, more than headroom might admit. But unless headroom is able to sell Sony 3K's for cheaper than the very standardized price we see everywhere I don't see why it matters. I mean obviously Headroom's "contract" with Sennheiser seems quite lenient...obviously Sennheiser allows Headroom to bash Sennheissers crappier phones! Do you think Sony would let Headroom sell their Streetstyles and let headroom call them the pieces of **** they really are?

Also I'm sure the Sony CD3k is very good phones...but at the price I personally would rather go with AKG1000's.

Headroom has always preferred HD600 sound over some competing phones such as AKG501, Sony CD3k, Beyer DT931. You can find anyone who may prefer one of those phones over the other. Perhaps its a "bias" for headroom to consider the HD600 the best of that bunch but on the otherhand, do you think the HD600's are so highly recommended because most people like them the most, or because they were recommended first?

IMO HD600 is one of the "safer" recommendations...you need to cater towards the majority. It is one reason they don't recommend the Ety4S on sound alone, but for closed or travel purposes. Not everyone takes to the fit or wants to deal with the extreme isolation. They have been doing business for awhile...so they should really know which products have the most or least satisfaction and for what reasons.

 

[MacDEF]

Quote:

Thats fine, but thats no excuse to bad mouth the CD3000 (which they do.) Thats the point of my post: that they talk crap about the CD3000 on their site for reasons having nothing to do with that headphone. This relates to the Etymotic -or not- depending on if someone is trusting every word HeadRoom says. Heres what they say about the CD3000 in the catagory of High End headphones: "Finally, a few other headphones are also mentioned in this category at times--such as the Sony CD3000--but we don’t feel that they really make the grade." Thats ********.

and

Quote:

Lets say someone whoes headphone opinions you respect made a negative comment about how the Ety's sound, and then it turned out they made that comment because they couldnt get their hands on one! That would not look good. Thats the position HeadRoom takes in regards to Sony, and thats a bone I have to pick with them.

First of all, the CD3000. Nowhere does HeadRoom "talk crap about the CD3000." The quote you referred to was in the specific context of HeadRoom's discussion of their "cream of the headphone crop." They were talking about the headphones they feel are the best in the world, and they only listed 6 or 7 headphones in that class. They didn't say the CD3000 are awful -- they simply don't feel that the CD3000 or the AKG 501 are as good as the AKG1000, Senn HD600, Grado RS1, etc.

That's not a ridiculous opinion. Some people love the 3000 and the 501, but others don't like them at all. HeadRoom is stating their (educated) opinion. Your opinion may differ, but to chalk it up to dishonesty on the part of HeadRoom is a big stretch. In fact, HeadRoom *does* like the 3000, since the 3000 are included in the 11 headphones they use for their normalized reference composite. So to say that HeadRoom hates them or talks badly of them isn't accurate.

Finally, your accusation that they "don't like" the 3000 because they don't carry them doesn't really hold up, since they *do* carry the 501, but also don't include the 501 in their "cream of the headphone crop." They carry Sennheisers and really criticize many of the Sennheiser models. So this obviously isn't wholly attributable to whether or not HeadRoom carries Sony products.

As for Sony products in general, how about taking a look at what HeadRoom says about Sony products:

They say Sony has some good sounding earbuds in the $69-$89 range, but that they aren't much better than the Sennheiser MX-500. The general consensus on Head-Fi is similar.

They say that they prefer the Beyer DT250-80 to the Sony MDR-V6. Every review I have seen on Head-Fi that directly compares the two has come to the same conclusion.

They say that Etymotics are the only good canal-phones. They say that Sony has a line (I'm assuming they are referring to the EX70) but that they don't really seal in the ear canal, and they don't sound very good. Sounds pretty accurate to me. Note that they also say that the category of canal-phones has great promise and they look forward to new models.

In their discussion of earbuds, they say that Sony has made some good models in the past. They don't have a current rec because the Sony line changes frequently (which it does).

Talking about "Full Size Sealed Headphones," they say that they're not fans of a lot of Sony headphones, but that Sony makes some good cans in this class.

Finally, their list of the top 10/11 headphones used for their reference composite include the Sony CD3000. They like the 3000 a lot; they just don't feel they make the top 6 or 7.

So looking at all those comments, it seems to me that while HeadRoom may not carry Sony headphones, their comments and opinions on Sony headphone products are pretty similar to the opinions voiced here on Head-Fi. I didnt' see too much that leads me to believe HeadRoom has it out for Sony products just because HeadRoom doesn't carry them.

 

[dgs]

Quote:

Originally posted by flood5 When are these going to be released?

No, I don't. You might want to give Todd over at Headroom a call or email...he's likely to know. -d

 

[M Rael]

MacDEF covered everything pretty well, though I'm surprised he agrees that the CD3000 might be factually heard as being on the same level with the AKG 501. But HeadRoom has a right to do whatever they want (obviously.) And this isnt a court of law so I'm not under any imparitive to cough up evidence that proves HeadRoom doesnt consider the CD3000 one of the top 6 or 7 headphones at least in part because they refuse to bow to Sony's distributor contract. Thats all fine, and its all good

p.s. the linguistic debate was an interesting one in its own right, though its totally off topic. Looking at ancient Greek or Roman writing you never see exclamation points used, or question marks used, or italics.. its because they were added to the alphabet later, to shore up shortcomings in the way the written word conveys language. So, if you have a weak belief and a strong opinion and are confused about which one should carry more weight, I prefer that you dont ask me!

 

[rohorn]

None of the orations that I had to translate in either first or second year Latin had emoticons/smilies, either. It seems to me that if one must use them to communicate effectively, then one's ability to express themselves with the written word is weak.

Either that or satire/sarcasm is beyond the comprehension of the pseudointellectual.

 

[coolvij]

rohorn: I think the satire is often above some people........without a smiley.......eeks..........Head-Flame, Inc.......