[bfreedma]

It's a thread about people's listening experience. You're not presenting any information in this regard - just banging on and on that it doesn't make any difference. We get it - you said the same when the topic started and for some reason you feel obliged to keep repeating it. Isn't there a part of the forum for sound science? This isn't it.

You said your listening experience was that ethernet cables make no difference. It's entirely pertinent to ask what cables you used and with what equipment.

I'm not sure why you are so shy about saying what's in your system and what cables you have allegedly tried. I can guess though.

You would be wrong, but if you’re that interested in my gear, it’s in my profile

My listening experience aligns with the hard science upon which Ethernet is constructed. There is no audible difference.

I don’t post here in response to subjective opinions. But when someone posts that there is hard science supporting these claims, I ask for the details behind the claim. Which is never provided by those making hard claims

 

[griff500]

You would be wrong, but if you’re that interested in my gear, it’s in my profile

My listening experience aligns with the hard science upon which Ethernet is constructed. There is no audible difference.

I don’t post here in response to subjective opinions. But when someone posts that there is hard science supporting these claims, I ask for the details behind the claim. Which is never provided by those making hard claims

Of course I'm interested in gear - why on earth would anyone who is not interested in HiFi gear be a member here?

You still haven't said what cables you've tried, despite having said that you have tried and despite me having asked you several times.

Sorry, but saying that you only posted because someone said that there is 'hard science supporting these claims' is BS.

Somebody posted a positive subjective experience in a thread that hadn't been posted in since April 2021 and you were immediately in there telling people it makes no difference. I've no idea why you feel the need to do this but there always seem to be a few that just cannot resist these threads.

Seriously buddy, get a life. It's a thread about people's listening experience with ethernet cables. Either post on topic or go and bang on about this in the sound science thread and let people get on with discussing their own opinions and experience with this. You're not saving anyone and you won't convince anyone, just like I cannot convince you that all of the people who say they find there to be a difference might mean that it might be worth investigating.

I'm quite happy for you to have your opinion - you might extend the courtesy of letting others have theirs. That really should be the end of it, unless you just cannot let it go. I'm done though.

 

[bfreedma]

Of course I'm interested in gear - why on earth would anyone who is not interested in HiFi gear be a member here?

You still haven't said what cables you've tried, despite having said that you have tried and despite me having asked you several times.

Sorry, but saying that you only posted because someone said that there is 'hard science supporting these claims' is BS.

Somebody posted a positive subjective experience in a thread that hadn't been posted in since April 2021 and you were immediately in there telling people it makes no difference. I've no idea why you feel the need to do this but there always seem to be a few that just cannot resist these threads.

Seriously buddy, get a life. It's a thread about people's listening experience with ethernet cables. Either post on topic or go and bang on about this in the sound science thread and let people get on with discussing their own opinions and experience with this. You're not saving anyone and you won't convince anyone, just like I cannot convince you that all of the people who say they find there to be a difference might mean that it might be worth investigating.

I'm quite happy for you to have your opinion - you might extend the courtesy of letting others have theirs. That really should be the end of it, unless you just cannot let it go. I'm done though.

You conveniently ignore that the title of the thread includes “Worth it to buy more expensive ones?” That is the statement my posts are directed toward. Not sure why you have an issue with that, but I am clearly on topic as spending money for zero improvement is by definition, not worth it.

Then again, you seem to feel that it’s fine for you to discuss your opinion but not ok for me to discuss mine. Let alone discussing hard engineering facts

I’ve repeatedly asked for you to support your hard performance claims with something other than your opinion. Apparently, you can’t and can only resort to insults and attempts at censorship

My posts won’t be relevant to anyone not interested in the reality of how Ethernet operates (like you). Others, who want to know if “it’s worth it” based on the operational parameters of Ethernet may well find these post valuable and invest their hard earned money into something that actually improves audio reproduction like transducers

 

[griff500]

You conveniently ignore that the title of the thread includes “Worth it to buy more expensive ones?” That is the statement my posts are directed toward. Not sure why you have an issue with that, but I am clearly on topic as spending money for zero improvement is by definition, not worth it.

Then again, you seem to feel that it’s fine for you to discuss your opinion but not ok for me to discuss mine. Let alone discussing hard engineering facts

I’ve repeatedly asked for you to support your hard performance claims with something other than your opinion. Apparently, you can’t and can only resort to insults and attempts at censorship

My posts won’t be relevant to anyone not interested in the reality of how Ethernet operates (like you). Others, who want to know if “it’s worth it” based on the operational parameters of Ethernet may well find these post valuable and invest their hard earned money into something that actually improves audio reproduction like transducers

Good grief.

I have not made 'hard performance claims' - I have reported the same subjective findings that nearly everyone who has tried it has reported. Attempts at censorship? Insults?

It seems somewhat arrogant for you to think people will find your posts valuable, and particularly when they are purely theoretical.

The OP asked whether it was worth it and asked for people's experience with this. He tried for himself (there's a rather strange concept), found improvements and reported his experience. The OP's question has already been answered quite some time ago by his own experience in his own system - it was worth it to him and he found an improvement. Your 'fact' is that he didn't...

He was unfortunately subjected to insults, ridicule and what amounted to bullying behaviour. This does not seem to be particularly unusual in these sorts of topics.

Lots more people reported improvements, often despite their assumptions that it wouldn't make any difference, but it seems they are all wrong. Some sort of mass psychosis going on. Thank goodness you are here to save the day.

The weirdest thing about this is that, for some unknown reason, you just cannot let it go. You're still banging the same old drum two years later in the same thread whenever anyone is daft enough to say they tried it and found an improvement. It's rather odd behaviour.

I'll be putting you on ignore so that I don't get sucked into wasting any more time on this. I should have done it pages ago...

 

[bfreedma]

Good grief.

I have not made 'hard performance claims' - I have reported the same subjective findings that nearly everyone who has tried it has reported. Attempts at censorship? Insults?

It seems somewhat arrogant for you to think people will find your posts valuable, and particularly when they are purely theoretical.

The OP asked whether it was worth it and asked for people's experience with this. He tried for himself (there's a rather strange concept), found improvements and reported his experience. The OP's question has already been answered quite some time ago by his own experience in his own system - it was worth it to him and he found an improvement. Your 'fact' is that he didn't...

He was unfortunately subjected to insults, ridicule and what amounted to bullying behaviour. This does not seem to be particularly unusual in these sorts of topics.

Lots more people reported improvements, often despite their assumptions that it wouldn't make any difference, but it seems they are all wrong. Some sort of mass psychosis going on. Thank goodness you are here to save the day.

The weirdest thing about this is that, for some unknown reason, you just cannot let it go. You're still banging the same old drum two years later in the same thread whenever anyone is daft enough to say they tried it and found an improvement. It's rather odd behaviour.

I'll be putting you on ignore so that I don't get sucked into wasting any more time on this. I should have done it pages ago...

My posts are theoretical? You have this 100% wrong. My posts are based on the 802 standards and decades of existing hard data around Ethernet operations. It’s you who is discussing entirely unproven theory.

If the definition of science is now “what a lot of people believe” rather than verifiable data, we are all in trouble. Lots of people claim to have seen Bigfoot, claim the world is flat, etc. I don’t believe their unsupported claims either. Do you?

Edit: I see you’re having this same conflict in other threads. I guess if I bought an Ethernet cable that sells for $400 per meter, I’d be attempting to defend that regardless of the actual engineering reality.

 

[bluenight]

I keep posting that Ethernet is galvanically isolated and you keep ignoring it - do you know what "galvanically isolated" means? Every Ethernet cable following the 802 standard (which should be all cables) has galvanic isolation built into the connectors. It isn't external electrical noise riding on the connection because it can't be. Try again. "Vibration"? Did you seriously just post that vibration impacts Ethernet? Come on...

The galvanic isolation most be to some extent in some limits. I think the noise we are talking about that effects audio dont go over the threshold where it can make stuff malfunction. The data is just electric voltage signals to my understanding and that passes on and probebly with it noise of some sort. Why would noise in ethernet wire cables be something magical dead set vaIue, i belive in gradations of noise. Does anything exist without gradations? Maybe that would be the odd thing "Ethernet the stop dead halt of everything Except magical data".
I guess you need to cut the wired ethernet cable to be compleatly isolated but no data (electrical signals) will pass then neither.

If it was galvanicaly isolated completely would this occour then? https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-54239180.amp

 

[Dawnrazor]

Here is an explanation from an engineer that might help this discussion:

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0...enson_EtherREGEN_white_paper.pdf?v=1583429386

 

[bluenight]

I

Here is an explanation from an engineer that might help this discussion:

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0...enson_EtherREGEN_white_paper.pdf?v=1583429386

I have posted that before somwhere in the thread. Now i edited my first post, i put the link there, because its the best explenation i know trying to explain.

The hardcore data guys thinks its marketing bs though.

 

[Dawnrazor]

I
I have posted that before somwhere in the thread. Now i edited my first post, i put the link there, because its the best explenation i know trying to explain.

The hardcore data guys thinks its marketing bs though.

Oh. I missed it! Yeah they will think its BS because it contradicts their dogma. Though the guy is an engineer with a ton of experience in the field and has engineered dacs and other devices too.

 

[bfreedma]

Oh. I missed it! Yeah they will think its BS because it contradicts their dogma. Though the guy is an engineer with a ton of experience in the field and has engineered dacs and other devices too.

It’s BS because it contradicts facts, not because it contradicts dogma. This ”engineer” has literally invented problems that don’t exist then “invented” a device he sells to solve that non problem. John Swenson’s background is in silicon design, not Ethernet and it shows.

Swenson is not exactly what I’d call an impartial or objective review and/or reviewer. There’s a reason no one with actual Ethernet industry history makes or promotes these items.

As always, I’ll be first in line to buy these products IF the manufacturer can show hard data demonstrating audible improvement. Been saying that for several decades - still waiting on a single vendor to produce that evidence.

 

[bluenight]

It’s BS because it contradicts facts, not because it contradicts dogma. This ”engineer” has literally invented problems that don’t exist then “invented” a device he sells to solve that non problem. John Swenson’s background is in silicon design, not Ethernet and it shows.

Swenson is not exactly what I’d call an impartial or objective review and/or reviewer. There’s a reason no one with actual Ethernet industry history makes or promotes these items.

As always, I’ll be first in line to buy these products IF the manufacturer can show hard data demonstrating audible improvement. Been saying that for several decades - still waiting on a single vendor to produce that evidence.

Sure fair enough but. Listening to music and evaluating sound is purely a subjective experience for me at least and probebly the majority in the hobby although its not a contest if one is in the majority or not but yes people are different. And many here a difference. Yes it would be great if they could show measurements of how it improve. It seems like nobody really know what to measure here but they know how to engineer and experiment with listening evaluation maybe.

 

[Dawnrazor]

It’s BS because it contradicts facts, not because it contradicts dogma. This ”engineer” has literally invented problems that don’t exist then “invented” a device he sells to solve that non problem. John Swenson’s background is in silicon design, not Ethernet and it shows.

Swenson is not exactly what I’d call an impartial or objective review and/or reviewer. There’s a reason no one with actual Ethernet industry history makes or promotes these items.

As always, I’ll be first in line to buy these products IF the manufacturer can show hard data demonstrating audible improvement. Been saying that for several decades - still waiting on a single vendor to produce that evidence.

He is an engineer. no need for the quotes and afaik its not just silicon design but power supplies, ethernet chips, dacs, etc.

https://www.audioshark.org/computer-digital-audio-11/ethernet-switch-box-19041-page2.html#post316536

sounds like Ethernet industry history to me. I just love the cynicism. The guy was an engineer in silicon valley making good dough but created a company to sell audiophile switches, because he is evil and needs money. Why can't it just be that he heard the issue and as a good engineer, is figuring out a solution? I bet he heard differences with his dac and figured out what was going on.

Here is a vid from an engineer who designs network dacs. He explains the difference of bits or data for other things like GPS and how its different for audio.

 

[bluenight]

He is an engineer. no need for the quotes and afaik its not just silicon design but power supplies, ethernet chips, dacs, etc.

https://www.audioshark.org/computer-digital-audio-11/ethernet-switch-box-19041-page2.html#post316536

sounds like Ethernet industry history to me. I just love the cynicism. The guy was an engineer in silicon valley making good dough but created a company to sell audiophile switches, because he is evil and needs money. Why can't it just be that he heard the issue and as a good engineer, is figuring out a solution? I bet he heard differences with his dac and figured out what was going on.

Here is a vid from an engineer who designs network dacs. He explains the difference of bits or data for other things like GPS and how its different for audio.

Great video. I ve been thinking my next uppgrade to be an ifi spdif iPurifier2 which takes care of the clocking. From my optical out from tv and spdif out from streamer. I hope the it can improve the sound i am still sceptical if it will. When i try and hear it will know for sure. My optical cabel allredy have low jitter. But one guy here who seemed very knowledgeable said earlier that reclocking is just a marketing gimmick and that it cant fix jitter when is there from the beggining of source or something like that. About the Violectric DHA V590 internal femto clock reclocking i am not sure if hes right. How can reclocking fix a broken jittery signal?

 

[The Jester]

All happens at the final conversion, if the DAC has a good clock, power supply, galvanic isolation etc it should be fine …

 

[griff500]

All happens at the final conversion, if the DAC has a good clock, power supply, galvanic isolation etc it should be fine …

'Should' is the key word and 'fine' seems equivalent to adequate.