[iFi audio]

Hi all, just wanting to check is shorter better for ethernet cable? I think I should be able to make 0.75m work, but I read somewhere minimum of 1 meter for ethernet cable is ideal? Anyone here has experience to back this up? Thanks.

I'd use whatever is convenient for you

 

[bluenight]

Length doesn’t really effect audio performance in Ethernet cables, or at least it’s marginal especially if you’re looking anything 10m or less. After that, in hyper resolving systems you may here a very slight degradation over longer lengths

Longer cables maybe pick up more airbourne RFI/Emi?

There is probebly not many that have compared.

 

[bluenight]

After some months listening ifi Ipower x replacing both router and switch power supply. Have been one of the better tweak improvements regarding sound quality for me. Cleaner/clearer sound with alot of bass improvement.

 

[griff500]

Recently I got feedback from one our customer who uses a router to provide wireless control for his streamer with internal hard drive. In his case thus a router isn't even in his audio chain, and he still was able to notice a performance spike upon swapping its PSU. So there's something there.

Possibly related to the "everything that's connected to the circuit forms part of the circuit" idea. Perhaps the power supply was introducing interference into the circuit but obviously(?) not through the WiFi side of things.

 

[cpurdy]

I bought a audioquest cinnamon ethernet cable earlier this year on sale for about 50 euros. I listened carefully before switching to the cinnamon ethernet cable. After switching to the cinnamon cable i heard a bit bitter separation, more air, and maybe a lower noisefloor. I have also tried a Transparent ethernet cable (about 350 euros) afterwards and it also gave an improvement to my stereo. It gave a better sense of space in live recordings. So yes up to a point i think its worth but it all depends on your current rig.

There's nothing wrong with buying a nice looking cable and imagining that it somehow magically changes the sound quality, despite physics and math and pesky nonsense like that.

My custom Ethernet cable uses genuine dilithium crystals and a flux capacitor, which provides a larger sound stage and incredible bass. For only $10,000, it was an absolute steal.

 

[griff500]

There's nothing wrong with buying a nice looking cable and imagining that it somehow magically changes the sound quality, despite physics and math and pesky nonsense like that.

My custom Ethernet cable uses genuine dilithium crystals and a flux capacitor, which provides a larger sound stage and incredible bass. For only $10,000, it was an absolute steal.

Are you a teenager?

 

[cpurdy]

Are you a teenager?

Only at heart

 

[bfreedma]

Are you a teenager?

No, he's an adult with an education on how Ethernet actually works.

 

[griff500]

No, he's an adult with an education on how Ethernet actually works.

You must be his Dad. Sort him out...

 

[bfreedma]

You must be his Dad. Sort him out...

Right after you provide a technical explanation of how Ethernet cables can consistently and repeatedly alter sound of packetized data within the 802 standards.

IF this was a problem, it would be trivially easy to show supporting data. Just analyze the packets at the endpoint and show how two cables supply different data - of course, if this was the case and error correction didn't work, Ethernet wouldn't work either. Not for audio, not for financial transactions, not for medical use...

Good luck.

 

[griff500]

Right after you provide a technical explanation of how Ethernet cables can consistently and repeatedly alter sound of packetized data within the 802 standards.

IF this was a problem, it would be trivially easy to show supporting data. Just analyze the packets at the endpoint and show how two cables supply different data - of course, if this was the case and error correction didn't work, Ethernet wouldn't work either. Not for audio, not for financial transactions, not for medical use...

Good luck.

If it was only about ones and zeros then you would be correct, but it's not. Your strawman argument is rather silly - nobody who hears a difference claims that the data has been altered.

The one thing we should be able to agree on is that neither will convince the other. You believe it makes no difference and I have heard a difference.

I don't think there's any sense in further discussion, unless you want to share details of your system and the cables you have tried that you found made no difference.

 

[bfreedma]

If it was only about ones and zeros then you would be correct, but it's not. Your strawman argument is rather silly - nobody who hears a difference claims that the data has been altered.

The one thing we should be able to agree on is that neither will convince the other. You believe it makes no difference and I have heard a difference.

I don't think there's any sense in further discussion, unless you want to share details of your system and the cables you have tried that you found made no difference.

Ethernet IS all about ones and zeros operating within the 802 protocols. What else is there?
Ethernet is error corrected and galvanically isolated, so data is guaranteed and external electric fields aren't able to be transmitted through the isolated connector.
So if the data isn't being altered and no electrical interference can occur, what is being altered that would impact audio reproduction? Be specific.

You know what Ethernet cables banks and hospitals use for critical data? Standard, inexpensive cables. And they are highly regulated, with both money and lives at stake.

This is hard science. It's the word of a few "high end" cable hucksters vs the 802 standard, billions of Ethernet end points, and trillions of data packets correctly sent and received daily. It's entirely on you to prove otherwise and sighted subjective evaluation isn't going to get you there.

 

[griff500]

Ethernet IS all about ones and zeros operating within the 802 protocols. What else is there?
Ethernet is error corrected and galvanically isolated, so data is guaranteed and external electric fields aren't able to be transmitted through the isolated connector.
So if the data isn't being altered and no electrical interference can occur, what is being altered that would impact audio reproduction? Be specific.

You know what Ethernet cables banks and hospitals use for critical data? Standard, inexpensive cables. And they are highly regulated, with both money and lives at stake.

This is hard science. It's the word of a few "high end" cable hucksters vs the 802 standard, billions of Ethernet end points, and trillions of data packets correctly sent and received daily. It's entirely on you to prove otherwise and sighted subjective evaluation isn't going to get you there.

It's not up to me to prove anything and certainly not to you - only to myself and my ears. Thinking that 'science' has all the answers is not particularly scientific.

It's not just about data - the entire system is also about keeping noise and interference as low as possible in order to produce the best sound possible. Introducing banks and hospitals into the discussion is daft and has no relevance - the banks are not looking for better sounding money.

I have no doubt that you believe what you are saying but you clearly have not tried it. As you like 'science', you might like to keep in mind that experimenting is a big part of it and it often reveals unexpected outcomes. A scientific mind is an enquiring mind and not one that thinks they have all the answers and nothing more is left to be discovered.

I said earlier that I don't think there's any sense in further discussion. I am now certain of it.

 

[bfreedma]

It's not up to me to prove anything and certainly not to you - only to myself and my ears. Thinking that 'science' has all the answers is not particularly scientific.

It's not just about data - the entire system is also about keeping noise and interference as low as possible in order to produce the best sound possible. Introducing banks and hospitals into the discussion is daft and has no relevance - the banks are not looking for better sounding money.

I have no doubt that you believe what you are saying but you clearly have not tried it. As you like 'science', you might like to keep in mind that experimenting is a big part of it and it often reveals unexpected outcomes. A scientific mind is an enquiring mind and not one that thinks they have all the answers and nothing more is left to be discovered.

I said earlier that I don't think there's any sense in further discussion. I am now certain of it.

You have a fundamental misunderstanding about how Ethernet and packetized data functions. And yes, it is science/engineering - who do you think developed the standards and associated technology. How do you think so many diverse devices communicate reliably over Ethernet? Magic?

Again, with error correction and galvanization (eliminates interference and noise), what else could impact an Ethernet connection? You keep saying there is something - what is it?

Explain how audio data is different than financial data transmitted via Ethernet - provide some details as to how any device in the chain identifies the difference between packets containing audio data and any other type of data. Hint - there isn't any difference.

All that said, you seem to believe the 802 standard is incomplete/incorrect. Tell you what: you write it up and I will get you a slot in front of the right 802 subcommittee to present your findings. If it's the 802 subcommittee I'm a member of, I'll be there for the presentation as well.

Bottom line - my position is based on the 802 standards and trillions of packets successfully delivered, error checked, error corrected, and processed daily. Your position is based on parroting what a bunch of "high end" cable vendors use as marketing materials, including some on this very thread. Congratulations on perfectly encapsulating 2021, where science and knowledge is discounted and the subjective opinions of those with a profit motive take precedence.

 

[teknorob23]

You have a fundamental misunderstanding about how Ethernet and packetized data functions. And yes, it is science/engineering - who do you think developed the standards and associated technology. How do you think so many diverse devices communicate reliably over Ethernet? Magic?

Again, with error correction and galvanization (eliminates interference and noise), what else could impact an Ethernet connection? You keep saying there is something - what is it?

Explain how audio data is different than financial data transmitted via Ethernet - provide some details as to how any device in the chain identifies the difference between packets containing audio data and any other type of data. Hint - there isn't any difference.

All that said, you seem to believe the 802 standard is incomplete/incorrect. Tell you what: you write it up and I will get you a slot in front of the right 802 subcommittee to present your findings. If it's the 802 subcommittee I'm a member of, I'll be there for the presentation as well.

Bottom line - my position is based on the 802 standards and trillions of packets successfully delivered, error checked, error corrected, and processed daily. Your position is based on parroting what a bunch of "high end" cable vendors use as marketing materials, including some on this very thread. Congratulations on perfectly encapsulating 2021, where science and knowledge is discounted and the subjective opinions of those with a profit motive take precedence.

ethernet cables effect on the audio, really is nothing to do with packets or changing the data in anyway. You are right ethernet is a robust way for delivering data, but it wasnt designed with audio in mind. The biggest issue effecting audio performance is the transmission of electronic (main RF) noise, picked up from around your network and transmitted via the ethernet cable acting if you will, like an antenna. This noise then piggy backs the data and enters the streamer which is highly sensitive to the effects noise brings, ie vibration and jitter which in turn causes an adverse effect when it comes to the DA conversion later in the chain. For the majority of applications ethernet works seamlessly, but in audio the physical connection and the noise which can be transmitted does effect the way your streamer and DAC perform and consequently the sound we hear.