[protoss]

Beautiful

 

[Giru]

Thanks to all the owners for the feedback and comparisons!!
Can someone please do an elaborate comparison of the ESR-10 to the HD820?
I'm on the fence about these and I sorta liked the HD820, last time I heard em. I'm trying to get a fresh audition of the Senns and would really appreciate if someone would do a side by side (or from memory) comparison of the two since auditioning the ESR-10 seems very difficult ATM.
Thanks and have a great week yall!!✌

 

[Whitigir]

Thanks to all the owners for the feedback and comparisons!!
Can someone please do an elaborate comparison of the ESR-10 to the HD820?
I'm on the fence about these and I sorta liked the HD820, last time I heard em. I'm trying to get a fresh audition of the Senns and would really appreciate if someone would do a side by side (or from memory) comparison of the two since auditioning the ESR-10 seems very difficult ATM.
Thanks and have a great week yall!!✌

Hd820 has more bass , sub and mid bass, better impacts. But it has a weird dips in the lower mid to mid spectrum. Even some spikes in the highs.

The ES while lacking impacts , and less bass overall, it is very well balanced without real noticeable dips or spikes. Hence the soundstage is actually very large but natural with precise imagings vs HD820. Though, the 820 has more resolves and sparkles in the edges and textures of instruments.

If the one thing I would give the credit to ES, it is the balanced tuning and clean signatures for being closed back

If the 820 has better impacts and resolving, which render bass and large string instruments to be more engaging and emotional, then the ES is more relax, with vivid portray of the whole setup rather than weird dips here and there.

Ultimately, the comfortability such as the wearability, the 820 has a better edges. It wears similarly to 800S but except that the cramping may be either light or hard. The weight is also very comfortable. The ears pads are over the ears and covering the whole ears rather than sitting half way neither being on the ears or over the ears like ES Labs

Mainly, one is more bass and another one is more balanced and a lot more natural

 

[Giru]

Hd820 has more bass , sub and mid bass, better impacts. But it has a weird dips in the lower mid to mid spectrum. Even some spikes in the highs.

The ES while lacking impacts , and less bass overall, it is very well balanced without real noticeable dips or spikes. Hence the soundstage is actually very large but natural with precise imagings vs HD820. Though, the 820 has more resolves and sparkles in the edges and textures of instruments.

If the one thing I would give the credit to ES, it is the balanced tuning and clean signatures for being closed back

If the 820 has better impacts and resolving, which render bass and large string instruments to be more engaging and emotional, then the ES is more relax, with vivid portray of the whole setup rather than weird dips here and there.

Ultimately, the comfortability such as the wearability, the 820 has a better edges. It wears similarly to 800S but except that the cramping may be either light or hard. The weight is also very comfortable. The ears pads are over the ears and covering the whole ears rather than sitting half way neither being on the ears or over the ears like ES Labs

Mainly, one is more bass and another one is more balanced and a lot more natural

Thanks for the prompt response!

I see. Well I definitely agree with you on the bass on 820. It's really quite good especially coming from the 800S.
That said, I don't remember the dips where you're mentioning them. I guess I'll really have to audition these now.
OTOH, the ESR-10 seem to be a no-nonsense choice since I've always found balanced sounding cans to be most retainable over time.

 

[Whitigir]

Having my MDR Z1R now, and I can say that I didn’t remember wrongly. The MDR doesn’t lack that impacts. Though it has a dark tint overall with emphasized sub bass. However, I did like the MDR Z1R a lot back then just because of how well the tonal balances are. Once you have accepted that it is a closed back, with emphasized sub bass and a warmer overall headphones. Then everything just fall into place and pop out in their own air within the whole staging.

The impacts, textures, balances overall, the MDR Z1R doesn’t lack anything, except for the fact that it is warm and it has emphasized sub bass.

I don’t think the soundstage is lacking VS the ES Lab at all.

Over the whole ordeal, I am glad to have the MDR again, one of the closed back I enjoyed back then. Then, if I really wanting more neutrality in signature, I would go for Stellia. But I enjoy a variety of genres and so the same as signatures. Just as long as it having both the dynamics, impacts, and resolves, then I am happy.

Yes, MDR will also sing from any source, but also doesn’t mean it is easy to drive either. When plugged into a high end system and amp, it scales up a lot as well, from the impacts, the resolving-ability, and bass controls

 

[omega1990]

I auditioned the he-r10d and to me, after comparing to hd800, focal clear and celestee, the cup resonance is quite obvious, and to me just a tad more than z1r. However it is the less than the es-r10. Is the resonance that much in comparison?

To my ears, yes. I agree that the he-r10d is a tad more resonant than the z1r, but the es-r10 resonates far more. Notes can vibrate onto one another on the es-r10 which could effect how I can perceive the presentation as being less tidy and organized which I am fine with.

 

[omega1990]

I would say Hifiman R10 (either dynamic or planar version) has no relationship with original R10 at all. Not to mention the cheap $5 woodcup, the sound is not similar to original at all. Hifiman do make good headphones like Susvara and HD1000 etc, but the R10 series is a joke and they are so overpriced.

ESR10 on the other hand, is trying to achieve the original sound of SONY R10. I wouldn’t say it 100% achieved that but at least their tuning style is so similar and the difference is marginal without a very good amp. I can’t tell the difference when using the headphone jack of WEISS DAC202, but when I use EC Studio B with HE1 preamp the difference is noticeable. But still they sounds quite similar.

I think hifimans own marketing on there site shows where they are coming from. There is a frequency response picture for the he-r10d with a line that reads "respect the classic model and surpass its performance."

On the other hand though I remember reading texts quoting him in the conference video (which I can't find the video any more) revealing the he-r10 headphones and saying things like
"43:30 - Bian says Sony R10 is not as good as people claims it to be. He prefers Bose NC700, Sony XB900N and Sony WH-1000XM3 over Sony R10.
49:30 - Bian addresses the haters, "I know people out there will accuse us of copying Sony. This product is not paying homage to Sony ('s design). Sony and I are competitors. Homage or not, all we (Hifiman and Sony) should care about is making good product. Even though Sony owns more market share, you (Sony) won't be able to sue me. I researched Sony's patents; they are expired. (Audience applaud in laughter)""

So I got mixed messages on what the he-r10d is exactly and after finally hearing it I think it is actually well, a lazy attempt to "respect the classic model and surpass its performance." If that is the he-r10d's goal then it failed at doing just that. I stand by my view that it is making an attempt to be a better modernized r10 (on paper anyway). The problem is, Bian Fang set a pretty ambitious goal that in the end could not be realized.

A person who talks a big game needs to back it up with proof and when hifiman finally released the he-r10d and I got to hear it myself with my es-r10, while I can understand the direction they were going for, to say this surpasses an r10 (in my case es-r10), well let's just say I've noticed hifiman has not really spoken of this product since and have moved on the he-r9.

Now I don't know all the complex decisions that would go into making a headphone, but I would guess that if you want to make a better r10, you absolutely cannot compromise on the quality of parts that could help in optimizing the driver. Like take a stradivarius violin for example. Sure you could use today's advance sciences to come up with a modern copy to an interesting effect, and to an untrained ear maybe they might have trouble figuring out which is which, but to more discerning ears like folks here and on other audiophile sites, we are not so easily fooled. Aspects of the he-r10d might remind me of my es-r10, but in the end for me the he-r10d was less of a stradivarius (es-r10), and more like Fischer prices interpretation of a stradivarius.

So you are right rzy6cn, they are not a one to one copy, but a failed reinterpretation of the r10.

 

[Whitigir]

To my ears, yes. I agree that the he-r10d is a tad more resonant than the z1r, but the es-r10 resonates far more. Notes can vibrate onto one another on the es-r10 which could effect how I can perceive the presentation as being less tidy and organized which I am fine with.

This resonances can happen when you play a little louder in volume Vs lower volume, but I am just like you, it wasn’t the points why I decided to let go of ES Lab, so I didn’t mention it.

In fact this is another point why I love MDR Z1R before and I still do now. Let’s talk bass as the most obvious point to observe. The MDR not only has emphasized sub bass, and mid bass, but it doesn’t resonate against the housing, unlike the 820 for example. This powerful bass will never be effected by volumes. You can turn it on, until the point that it vibrate your ears, and it still doesn’t degrade or distorts. The MDR is truly king of bass in closed back form. The 820 will have sub bass degradation when listen louder.

 

[number1sixerfan]

My ES-1a and ES-R10 are in hand. Shared a few initial thoughts and pics here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/qui...e60-baby-orpheus.930051/page-32#post-16986310

Really incredible performance for the cost with both of them. For people reluctant to spend the $4k+ prices for most TOTLs these days, I would definitely consider both of them. ES-R10 has performance more similar to the OG TOTL cans, with that unique intimacy and euphoria, while the ES-1a has formidable technical ability that is similar to current stat TOTLs.

I didn't mention in my other thread, that build quality is obviously compromised to achieve the price point. And that applies to both models for me. However, it doesn't bother me one bit, as that's clearly the only way you could achieve this level of performance at such relatively low prices.

More to come later.

 

[Zoide]

I didn't mention in my other thread, that build quality is obviously compromised to achieve the price point. And that applies to both models for me. However, it doesn't bother me one bit, as that's clearly the only way you could achieve this level of performance at such relatively low prices.

Thanks for sharing!

I still find it hard to understand what constitutes "normal" prices nowadays. When the Sennheiser HD 800 came out, it was considered TOTL with a price of around $1500 and great build quality.

Nowadays headphones costing $1650-$2000 get a pass on build quality because they are "cheap" compared to the crazy price of headphones such as the $6,000 Abyss 1266 TC, the $6,000 HIFIMAN Susvara, the $4,000 DCA Stealth, etc...

 

[protoss]

Really incredible performance for the cost with both of them. For people reluctant to spend the $4k+ prices for most TOTLs these days, I would definitely consider both of them.

Your post is a déjà vu towards mine, 30+ pages back

I'm not sure what it is, but everyone copies Protoss

After listening to the $1500 Es1a and starring at my 009/009S for a while. I was like what the heck, Stax 'schiit' is bloody expensive for no reason. Soon after, sold the 009 series. If anyone wants TOTL estats, it is called ES-Es1a.

The R10 and the Es1a are showing everyone here true performance at the perfect price!

 

[mulveling]

Thanks for sharing!

I still find it hard to understand what constitutes "normal" prices nowadays. When the Sennheiser HD 800 came out, it was considered TOTL with a price of around $1500 and great build quality.

Nowadays headphones costing $1650-$2000 get a pass on build quality because they are "cheap" compared to the crazy price of headphones such as the $6,000 Abyss 1266 TC, the $6,000 HIFIMAN Susvara, the $4,000 DCA Stealth, etc...

Is HD800 great build quality? Ton of plastic, no leather. It's well built and durable but definitely built to a price and far from what I expect from a luxurious TOTL. The Sony SA5000 cost almost half as much as HD800 and used a magnesium frame. Count me as one who never understood the HD800-series love, though. Still really like my ES-R10's

I got the ES-1a and like them, but don't think I have the right amp for these until I get my T2 back. The HEV90 clone is a perfect match for L700 but lacks a bit of drive and control with ES1a - same problem with 009 on this amp, and didn't even bother to try 007 here. It does sound quite good, though. I expected it would do better with the KGSShv, and this amp does provide ample power, but sonically the pairing fell kind of flat to my surprise (again, same problem with 009 here). The 007 Mk I on that same KGSShv is a great pairing. For ES-1a I'm thinking you want a tube amp or tube hybrid with a lot of power.

The ES1a has a huge soundstage (biiiig drivers), generous bass for a 'stat, detail & articulation you'd expect from an omega-class Stax, and a warmer tone than the 009. I think it's quite an attractive looking headphones to boot. Totally agree with protoss the 009S in particular is not a good deal in light of competition.

 

[number1sixerfan]

Thanks for sharing!

I still find it hard to understand what constitutes "normal" prices nowadays. When the Sennheiser HD 800 came out, it was considered TOTL with a price of around $1500 and great build quality.

Yea, this is when TOTL headphone prices were really reasonable. To be fair, natural inflation over time is to be expected.. but what has happened to this hobby unfortunately is price gouging. It's unfortunate, and I know we as users have played into it. But all in all, the current market dictates what we perceive as valuable.

Nowadays headphones costing $1650-$2000 get a pass on build quality because they are "cheap" compared to the crazy price of headphones such as the $6,000 Abyss 1266 TC, the $6,000 HIFIMAN Susvara, the $4,000 DCA Stealth, etc...

I give them a pass not just because they're cheap, but because these two in particular perform close to those levels, which are insanely higher priced. What I'm getting at is, $5k+ headphones are out of reach for a lot of people. If I were interested in TOTL level performance without those price tags, I would certainly be ok without having the best build quality. Also, it's not that the product doesn't seem well built, it's just that it clearly uses a few cheaper parts imo.

 

[Aura]

reached out to ES Labs today and grabbed extra pads and rings for ~$350 shipped to US. that's with a discount for previous purchase of the headphone.

i was seriously considering pulling a mulveling and getting another pair but i am beyond happy with my pair's cups and drivers so just future-proofing the stuff that might break down.

 

[jonathan c]

Yea, this is when TOTL headphone prices were really reasonable. To be fair, natural inflation over time is to be expected.. but what has happened to this hobby unfortunately is price gouging. It's unfortunate, and I know we as users have played into it. But all in all, the current market dictates what we perceive as valuable.



I give them a pass not just because they're cheap, but because these two in particular perform close to those levels, which are insanely higher priced. What I'm getting at is, $5k+ headphones are out of reach for a lot of people. If I were interested in TOTL level performance without those price tags, I would certainly be ok without having the best build quality. Also, it's not that the product doesn't seem well built, it's just that it clearly uses a few cheaper parts imo.

It may be an entrepreneurial opportunity to bring out aftermarket parts for the ES-R10.