[paradoxper]

Any more impressions about the ES-R10 and how it compares to your other cans, BTW?
I hope you're enjoying them

ES-R10 simply excels at vocals and acoustic information with a very natural timbre that is effortless and seductive with closed-back-class-leading stage presence.

Once you start comparing technicalities things fall apart in layers depending on a preference. @rsbrsvp was correct that they simply serve different purposes -- I find myself lost in the music with the R10 more than focused on evaluations of its performance -- bass extension and slam is a prevalent deficiency but perfectly acceptable in context. However, yes, when I listen to the TC, I'm not lost in the music, I'm actively engaged and that engagement provides more satisfaction -- it's just a significantly more grandiose performance especially with a tube amplification.

 

[Zoide]

bass extension and slam is a prevalent deficiency but perfectly acceptable in context

Your current cans (1266 TC) are known for excelling at that. How does the bass extension/slam of the ES-R10 compare to that of something like STAX 007/009/modern Lambdas?

Also, you mentioned that they have "closed-back-class-leading" stage presence. I'm curious to know how the soundstage/imaging would compare to those open headphones as well.

Thanks

 

[Whitigir]

I don’t know about people claiming the ES to be opened and out of stage and or rivaling 800s/Stax in term of soundstage…. To me, it was very obvious that the ES R10 is still pretty much a closed back design, and it suffers all of those negativities. Yet, could still be claiming to be a class leading as it does a lot of goods, for example even in comparison to hd820, where there are weird dips in the lower mid bass and then mid spectrums, and a large bandwidth of those dips, while the ES also Has some dips, especially the upper sub-bass and then the lower mid bass, while bumping up the mid-bass a little bit, it doesn’t have any weirdness and dips in the mid spectrum as the hd820 does (which contributing to the large soundstage as well for the 820).

It is very, and I meant it literally, obviously, that the ES is still a closed back, and suffering all the closed back negativities, for example….it is not the most transparent phones. However, it is a very well crafted, well thought out products…..but please, don’t compare it to any of the opened back….May be the lower to mid tiers opened back….but honestly, even among Flagship opened back, there are a huge battle and competitions going on, as far as Stax SR009 VS SR-009S and the new Omega….one can say that there are not much differences at all, but once you realize, and know the pros at which makes opened back to be enjoyable, and then diving deep into the comparison of nuances, there are hugely and vastly differences beyond the diminishing return points that makes up all the pricing that are astronomically and hard to swallow.

So, yes, among opened back flagships, there are distinctive differences, and closed back is a closed back. While I know this for a fact, I gave the ES another chance when people claimed those previously, and since I never heard of the Legendary R10….. it turned me down. I guess, I love opened back for it airiness, separations, staging presentations, and I enjoyed closed back for it bass present, resolving without fatigues. So, I don’t really find myself enjoying something in between, like a closed back that neither having the sub bass, or the impacts of dynamism, and neither the staging, the openness, or the separations of opened backs. Then, and only until then, I would seek on for other nuances such as pitches, tonal balances of instruments that dwelling within their own main spectrums, then textures, and most of the time, I always found oddities with all of the phones that are staying neither closed, nor opened.

Yes, I am weird, and I am the minority, but that are my preferences. While I don’t have problems with different signatures such as warmth, dark, bright, cold, neutral….etc…I enjoy them all, what I look for in each designs are as mentioned, the technicalities of which make a designs and being excelled from that, together with great tonality that covers the entire sound signatures (*1), and that is all I would be aiming for.

I have trimmed down my arsenal and slowly settled for my HD800s, it still, until this day, remaining the most transparent, accurate, wide staging with the dynamism and impacts that would put many to shame when properly connected to either a great DAP, or especially a desktop system. Then in comparison to others flagships, each of them have their own pros and cons, and if you are so particular, you would then ended up collecting them all, because just as @paradoxper mentioned, no phones can cover all the goods and leaving all the bad….so, there really is no perfections. You will just have to compromise and accept them for what they are, until you really do understand what you want and how you want it, then that is the moment you would choose one to stick with it.

(*1) what I really meant was that, if a phone is warmer, then the whole tonal balances of everything within would be nicely balanced with that same warmth signatures induced for the whole spectrum. Now, to me, this would be one amazing warmer phones.

 

[protoss]

@Whitigir

I totally agree. I do not know why people like to compare Open back vs closed back.
I find it strange.

People should ask: Are they better than AWKT,Z1R, D9200,HD820, L5000, LCDXC, Dan Clark stuff, and ZMF closed back.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/stax-sr-Ω-sr-omega-the-legendary-omega.847079/page-5
Mid-page I answer a question about my favorite headphone and I even mention the R10 OG will be outclassed against so many headphones.

 

[jjshin23]

I don’t know about people claiming the ES to be opened and out of stage and or rivaling 800s/Stax in term of soundstage…. To me, it was very obvious that the ES R10 is still pretty much a closed back design, and it suffers all of those negativities. Yet, could still be claiming to be a class leading as it does a lot of goods, for example even in comparison to hd820, where there are weird dips in the lower mid bass and then mid spectrums, and a large bandwidth of those dips, while the ES also Has some dips, especially the upper sub-bass and then the lower mid bass, while bumping up the mid-bass a little bit, it doesn’t have any weirdness and dips in the mid spectrum as the hd820 does (which contributing to the large soundstage as well for the 820).

It is very, and I meant it literally, obviously, that the ES is still a closed back, and suffering all the closed back negativities, for example….it is not the most transparent phones. However, it is a very well crafted, well thought out products…..but please, don’t compare it to any of the opened back….May be the lower to mid tiers opened back….but honestly, even among Flagship opened back, there are a huge battle and competitions going on, as far as Stax SR009 VS SR-009S and the new Omega….one can say that there are not much differences at all, but once you realize, and know the pros at which makes opened back to be enjoyable, and then diving deep into the comparison of nuances, there are hugely and vastly differences beyond the diminishing return points that makes up all the pricing that are astronomically and hard to swallow.

So, yes, among opened back flagships, there are distinctive differences, and closed back is a closed back. While I know this for a fact, I gave the ES another chance when people claimed those previously, and since I never heard of the Legendary R10….. it turned me down. I guess, I love opened back for it airiness, separations, staging presentations, and I enjoyed closed back for it bass present, resolving without fatigues. So, I don’t really find myself enjoying something in between, like a closed back that neither having the sub bass, or the impacts of dynamism, and neither the staging, the openness, or the separations of opened backs. Then, and only until then, I would seek on for other nuances such as pitches, tonal balances of instruments that dwelling within their own main spectrums, then textures, and most of the time, I always found oddities with all of the phones that are staying neither closed, nor opened.

Yes, I am weird, and I am the minority, but that are my preferences. While I don’t have problems with different signatures such as warmth, dark, bright, cold, neutral….etc…I enjoy them all, what I look for in each designs are as mentioned, the technicalities of which make a designs and being excelled from that, together with great tonality that covers the entire sound signatures (*1), and that is all I would be aiming for.

I have trimmed down my arsenal and slowly settled for my HD800s, it still, until this day, remaining the most transparent, accurate, wide staging with the dynamism and impacts that would put many to shame when properly connected to either a great DAP, or especially a desktop system. Then in comparison to others flagships, each of them have their own pros and cons, and if you are so particular, you would then ended up collecting them all, because just as @paradoxper mentioned, no phones can cover all the goods and leaving all the bad….so, there really is no perfections. You will just have to compromise and accept them for what they are, until you really do understand what you want and how you want it, then that is the moment you would choose one to stick with it.

(*1) what I really meant was that, if a phone is warmer, then the whole tonal balances of everything within would be nicely balanced with that same warmth signatures induced for the whole spectrum. Now, to me, this would be one amazing warmer phones.

Just curious what type of music you enjoy listening to or when you are describing your HD800s?

 

[Whitigir]

Just curious what type of music you enjoy listening to or when you are describing your HD800s?

I listen to a varieties of them, except hip hop and hard metal

 

[Zoide]

@Whitigir

I do not know why people like to compare Open back vs closed back.

It think it is for at least a couple reasons:

• These headphones are expensive. Once all is said and done, we're talking about $2000 for the headphones alone (after shipping, customs fees / taxes, and a better cable if that's what you're into). So not everyone can afford to have multiple cans for each music genre or usage scenario. In my case, I can't really excuse getting an ES-R10 and keeping my L700 (and possibly upgrading my STAX amp). On the other hand, the ES-R10 starts to feel somewhat affordable if it lets me sell my L700/estat amp and I can drive the ES-R10 off of a cheap-but-good dynamic amp.
• A lot of superlatives have been thrown around here about the ES-R10: 80-90% of the greatest-of-all-time MDR-R10 ("the king"), "magical" 3D soundstage that is deeper than some open-backs, beautiful euphonic sound, etc. Of course, some people have been more balanced, but overall the tone is that the ES-R10 are truly special in a way that makes it fair to compare them to top-tier alternatives, regardless of being open- vs closed-back.

 

[paradoxper]

It think it is for at least a couple reasons:

• These headphones are expensive. Once all is said and done, we're talking about $2000 for the headphones alone (after shipping, customs fees / taxes, and a better cable if that's what you're into). So not everyone can afford to have multiple cans for each music genre or usage scenario. In my case, I can't really excuse getting an ES-R10 and keeping my L700 (and possibly upgrading my STAX amp). On the other hand, the ES-R10 starts to feel somewhat affordable if it lets me sell my L700/estat amp and I can drive the ES-R10 off of a cheap-but-good dynamic amp.
• A lot of superlatives have been thrown around here about the ES-R10: 80-90% of the greatest-of-all-time MDR-R10 ("the king"), "magical" 3D soundstage that is deeper than some open-backs, beautiful euphonic sound, etc. Of course, some people have been more balanced, but overall the tone is that the ES-R10 are truly special in a way that makes it fair to compare them to top-tier alternatives, regardless of being open- vs closed-back.

And in that regard, they are one of the most enjoyable closed backs I've ever heard. However, yes, completely fine to compare and provide context to any other phone in existence. They do remind me quite a bit of the Stealth: mid range is the star, all particular technicality pass the sniff test and both decisively lack dynamic extension.

 

[Zoide]

And in that regard, they are one of the most enjoyable closed backs I've ever heard. However, yes, completely fine to compare and provide context to any other phone in existence. They do remind me quite a bit of the Stealth: mid range is the star, all particular technicality pass the sniff test and both decisively lack dynamic extension.

DCA Stealth or Arya Stealth?

What exactly do you mean by "dynamic extension"?

Thanks

 

[paradoxper]

DCA Stealth or Arya Stealth?

What exactly do you mean by "dynamic extension"?

Thanks

As it applies to closed vs closed, DCA Stealth.

Lacks slam, explosion, force. Soft and smoothed over bottom to top.

 

[Zoide]

As it applies to closed vs closed, DCA Stealth.

Lacks slam, explosion, force. Soft and smoothed over bottom to top.

Interesting.

But see, this is one case where open vs closed might not be the most important distinction.

A lack of slam/explosion/force is something that is often said about electrostatic headphones. So that's why I thought it would be relevant to compare that aspect of the ES-R10 to cans such as the 009/007/L700.

 

[paradoxper]

Interesting.

But see, this is one case where open vs closed might not be the most important distinction.

A lack of slam/explosion/force is something that is often said about electrostatic headphones. So that's why I thought it would be relevant to compare that aspect of the ES-R10 to cans such as the 009/007/L700.

Contextual language also shifts with electrostatic phones. They operate at a different technical level with which few can match. But if you don't know the stat timbre, stat dynamics, stat resolution and stat bass, it is impossible to fill in the gaps for you.

R10 provides improved timbre with a similar lack of tonality, lack of weightiness and realism of bite: think of piano strikes of brightness and density.
Stats have that sweet and glossy wet tone which is hyper-realistic but devoid of natural occurrence.

But these are inherent traits without cause to parse.

 

[paradoxper]

Your current cans (1266 TC) are known for excelling at that. How does the bass extension/slam of the ES-R10 compare to that of something like STAX 007/009/modern Lambdas?

Also, you mentioned that they have "closed-back-class-leading" stage presence. I'm curious to know how the soundstage/imaging would compare to those open headphones as well.

Thanks

I missed this post. To piggyback my above response:
The context is always "for a closed back" caveat.

All the TOTL open sound borderless and breathed, infinitely more than the R10. The R10 is remarkably open and three dimensional for a closed variant.
You would need a first-tier performance separating grade of stage presence and then imaging prowess.

Stage
Tier 1: 009/TC/Susvara/Omega/SR1a/HD800
Tier 2: Solitaire/007/HEDD
Tier 3: R10/Stealth

Imaging:
Tier 1: 009/Utopia/SR1a/Omega/
Tier 2: TC/007/Stealth/Solitaire/HD800
Tier 3: Susvara/HEDD/R10.

 

[Whitigir]

Interesting.

But see, this is one case where open vs closed might not be the most important distinction.

A lack of slam/explosion/force is something that is often said about electrostatic headphones. So that's why I thought it would be relevant to compare that aspect of the ES-R10 to cans such as the 009/007/L700.

Wrong, Stax never lacked them, they are driven by different amplifiers, and there are different tiers among them. You can’t just be plugging it into the cheapest Amp and be claiming what you said.

one example is that Stax or E-stat, as a magnetic field technology, has an infinite field from within it designated areas, while planar as a field is bound by both physics and a limited field of energy (only existed between the printed voice coil and the magnetic designs) that is being controlled by the AC applied.

the only thing e-stats May be a PITA is because there are very little amplifiers to choose from, and mostly come from DIY. Also, not too many options on the phones either beside the real Stax and Sennheiser Orpheus

 

[rzy6cn]

I am the first batch user of ES-R10 (my serial number is #6 and I am a private friend of the producer). I also have an R10 with a #1 driver.

Overall speaking they are quite similar with some difference.

The difference is marginal. It is hard to tell if your amp is not good enough. But if your amp is good enough then the difference becomes easy to figure out.

The major difference is the extension of the treble and the bass.

The original R10 has a better treble extension, it sounds more ethereal and transparent, making it more emotional for some vocal works.

The original R10 also has a more relaxed bass. ES-R10 has a more hard and solid bass. I like the original one but someone might prefer a more solid base of the ES-R10, for the rocks. The producer of ES-R10 is a rock lover.

And the original one sounds more emotional, I can't tell why but it just sounds better in terms of my taste.

They are all very good at reply string works and chamber music, as well as vocals, especially acapella and violin. But the original R10 outperformed ES-R10 in terms of replaying Orchestra works.

I would say it is a very good headphone if you don't have the budget for the original R10. They sound very similar in regards to the tuning. You can't really find a headphone tuning like this today. The price is not too high, and the build quality and stability are very good.

After purchasing one for myself, I've purchased another to send to my friend as a gift.