[Hansotek]

Different ears, different judging criteria, different equipment and different listening conditions. My recommendation would be to try and identify other Head-fi'ers who hear and judge in a similar way to you (by reading their impressions on equipment you are familiar with). Those people are going to be a far more reliable source for you than trying to draw a meta-opinion from the populace.

Well of course.  But I was pointing out that the hype train left the station way early on this one, and only now are we seeing things like high distortion numbers, etc...  The two things don't quite align.  

Makes sense. I mean, they did have the preproduction models out pretty early... And it did sound quite good, with promise of better to come.

I think, however, that it's easier to talk about the Dharmas (acute) issues vs. its more broad benefits. It's a bit of a jack of all trades and master of none... Which isn't necessarily a bad thing.

 

[bazelio]

Makes sense. I mean, they did have the preproduction models out pretty early... And it did sound quite good, with promise of better to come.

I think, however, that it's easier to talk about the Dharmas (acute) issues vs. its more broad benefits. It's a bit of a jack of all trades and master of none... Which isn't necessarily a bad thing.

It ought to be a master of treble at the very least. Anyhow, I agree with your point. And if we are finally toning down the rhetoric on this one a wee bit, then I think that's a good thing. I'd love to hear the Dharma for myself and I think I'll just have to find my way to Canjam in March to do exactly that (among other things).

 

[Hansotek]

Makes sense. I mean, they did have the preproduction models out pretty early... And it did sound quite good, with promise of better to come.

I think, however, that it's easier to talk about the Dharmas (acute) issues vs. its more broad benefits. It's a bit of a jack of all trades and master of none... Which isn't necessarily a bad thing.

It ought to be a master of treble at the very least. Anyhow, I agree with your point. And if we are finally toning down the rhetoric on this one a wee bit, then I think that's a good thing. I'd love to hear the Dharma for myself and I think I'll just have to find my way to Canjam in March to do exactly that (among other things).

DO IT!!!!

 

[Stillhart]

   
 
Well of course.  But I was pointing out that the hype train left the station way early on this one, and only now are we seeing things like high distortion numbers, etc...  The two things don't quite align.  

 
Let's not forget that Tyll's report on the Dharma from CES last year was the start of the hype train.
 
Anyways, you're right that every Head-fi thread is like this with conflicting reports.  That comes from having such a large community with so many different backgrounds and setups.  I agree with Hansotek that you have to look for people that hear generally the same as you in order to judge stuff you haven't yet heard.  But nothing replaces hearing it for yourself.
 
For example, I heard the Dharma at RMAF off a $6000 Questyle monoblock setup and it sounded amazing.  It sounded nothing like what was described above.  The thing is, there are many things that could account for the differences, from the indivdual Dharma used (how long was it burnt in, etc) to the source chain to my own ears being different.  
 
So yeah, I still think this headphone deserves a lot of praise and is very competitive in price/performance.

 

[3rdmortal]

I compared Dharma vs HE-560 several days ago. And my opinion is quite opposite. I think Dharma has more bass than HE-560. Hifiman sounded thin compared to Dharma.

I think the amp used is the reason for such different opinions. The synergy is very important. Otherwise you will always be dissapointed.

 

[richard51]

I compared Dharma vs HE-560 several days ago. And my opinion is quite opposite. I think Dharma has more bass than HE-560. Hifiman sounded thin compared to Dharma.

I think the amp used is the reason for such different opinions. The synergy is very important. Otherwise you will always be dissapointed.

i read the same on a french forum with experienced listener...I think that some  of the reason ( except personal taste) of the negative review of the Dharma might well be that people equate (in amplification)  power with quality, without knowing that the delicate and light equilibrium between the electrostatic and dynamic driver, coupled with his high efficiency, demand not brute force amplification but synergetic and delicate one of a kind for optimal result...

Perhaps this explain that...Because the review are extremely opposite one...

 

[bmichels]

i read the same on a french forum with experienced listener...I think that some reason of the negative review of the Dharma might well be that people equate in amplification  power with quality without knowing that the delicate and light equilibrium between the electrostatic and dynamic driver coupled with his high efficiency demand not brute force amplification but synergetic and delicate one of a kind for optimal result...

OK So, what are the amps that offer the best synergy with the Dharma ? How does it synergies with the Hugo & TT ? Are tube amps good or not for the Dharma ?

 

[richard51]

OK So, what are the amps that offer the best synergy with the Dharma ? How does it synergies with the Hugo & TT ? Are tube amps good or not for the Dharma ?

i dont know that yet....we must analyse all review and try ......

 

[Oregonian]

OK So, what are the amps that offer the best synergy with the Dharma ? How does it synergies with the Hugo & TT ? Are tube amps good or not for the Dharma ?

So far I can say that both vintage amps I fed it with sound fantastic.
 
Pioneer Spec 1 preamp/Spec 2 amp (250 wpc)
Pioneer SA7500MKII - 45 wpc
 
The Spec system has in the chain a Chase RLC-1 remote (making a vintage a lazy man's dream) that also has tone controls built in for bass and treble which I utilize.  As well, I have a SG-9500 equalizer and use the tone controls on the Spec 1 preamp so really am able to fine tune the sound to my liking.  Seems the Dharma likes power, as the Spec system really sounds more to my liking than the lower power SA7500 amp by a decent margin.  The bass with the Spec system is mind blowing out of the Dharma.  Never experienced such a stark difference with pad rolling on any headphone, and I've done extensive experiments over the past three + years on multiple headphones.  Surprised me to be honest. 
 
Vintage speaker amps is all I use with the exception of my Cayin C5 portable that's used for my workouts, fed by an iPod touch into Ultrasone Performance 840 headphones.  I have not tried the Dharma with that setup though I'm curious how it would sound. 

 

[stjj89]

 
is it possible that the choice of a so pwerful SS amp , and perhaps a lack of synergy between these two, the reason of this bad impressions ? i am very interested in the Dharma...Perhaps a good idea will be to listen to them with another very different and less powerful amp, a tube one or a hybrid... ? your review is very good , well written, i only ask about  other possibilities? anyway i thank you for your honest report...

 
I tried it single-ended on a Liquid Carbon as well, and my impressions are the same. There's something about the forwardness of the upper mids (or is it lower treble?) that make some vocals and cymbals stick out too much. Also, I have added a little note to my review stating that my unit had some rattling in one driver when I pushed it hard in the bass department (hiphop tracks with copious amounts of subbass). It is unclear if my unit had some defect in the bass department. However, the innerfidelity measurements confirm my impressions--there is a subbass roll-off on these cans.

 

[Oregonian]

   
I tried it single-ended on a Liquid Carbon as well, and my impressions are the same. There's something about the forwardness of the upper mids (or is it lower treble?) that make some vocals and cymbals stick out too much. Also, I have added a little note to my review stating that my unit had some rattling in one driver when I pushed it hard in the bass department (hiphop tracks with copious amounts of subbass). It is unclear if my unit had some defect in the bass department. However, the innerfidelity measurements confirm my impressions--there is a subbass roll-off on these cans.

How many hours do you have on them? 

 

[stjj89]

 
How many hours do you have on them? 

 
They were a loaner from the TTVJ Audio loaner program. I'm not sure how many hours the pair I had on them, but they are going back to ENIGMAcoustics for a checkup.

 

[Oregonian]

   
They were a loaner from the TTVJ Audio loaner program. I'm not sure how many hours the pair I had on them, but they are going back to ENIGMAcoustics for a checkup.

I'm sure then that they have plenty of break in time.  Are they coming back to you or are they going on to the next lucky auditioner? 

 

[skablin]

I tried it single-ended on a Liquid Carbon as well, and my impressions are the same. There's something about the forwardness of the upper mids (or is it lower treble?) that make some vocals and cymbals stick out too much. Also, I have added a little note to my review stating that my unit had some rattling in one driver when I pushed it hard in the bass department (hiphop tracks with copious amounts of subbass). It is unclear if my unit had some defect in the bass department. However, the innerfidelity measurements confirm my impressions--there is a subbass roll-off on these cans.

Been using with Liquid Carbon coming from Oppo 105D and think it sounds amazing with well-rounded sound. Have not listened to anything with extreme bass, so can't speak to that, but no complaints.

 

[Oregonian]

Round 2 of pad rolling experiments...............first was the Audeze lambskin pads, round two is the HM-5 thick pleather pads.  Quite a bit thicker than stock and not angled like the Audeze pads are so more akin to the stock flat pad profile.    Just did the swap so no sound comments yet.............those to come tonight.   Look great though.