[cangle]

So I've been spending some time reading about various dacs in the 3-10k USD range to pair with the Formula S/Powerman. Here's a list of dacs that interest me at the moment:

Lampizator Amber 3 *
Denafrips Terminator or Terminator Plus
Holo May L2 or KTE
Audiobyte Hydra with Vox power supply *
Rockna Wavelight *
Bricasti M1SE
XIAudio Sagra *

Edit: Put a * next to dacs that are most interesting at the moment

Has anyone had experience with any of these dacs or have any thoughts on what would or wouldn't pair well with the Formula S and Powerman? The Sagra dac will obviously pair well but I sent an email to Abyss to see what they think about it and if there's any other dacs that they have used with the amp. My thought is that even though the Sagra may be made for the Formula S and Powerman that I may be able to get more performance out of the amp by stepping up to a higher end dac. Also am open to other dacs that I haven't mentioned. Really just trying to consider my options and see what all is out there before I purchase something (I'm thinking later this year or early next year unless it's one of the more affordable dacs under 4-5k USD)

 

[mammal]

So I've been spending some time reading about various dacs in the 3-10k USD range to pair with the Formula S/Powerman. Here's a list of dacs that interest me at the moment:

Lampizator Amber 3
Denafrips Terminator or Terminator Plus
Holo May L2 or KTE
Audiobyte Hydra with Vox power supply
Rockna Wavelight
Bricasti M1SE
XIAudio Sagra

Has anyone had experience with any of these dacs or have any thoughts on what would or wouldn't pair well with the Formula S and Powerman? The Sagra dac will obviously pair well but I sent an email to Abyss to see what they think about it and if there's any other dacs that they have used with the amp. My thought is that even though the Sagra may be made for the Formula S and Powerman that I may be able to get more performance out of the amp by stepping up to a higher end dac. Also am open to other dacs that I haven't mentioned. Really just trying to consider my options and see what all is out there before I purchase something (I'm thinking later this year or early next year unless it's one of the more affordable dacs under 4-5k USD)

Is there any chance you can get some of these dacs for a home demo? Also, for 10k budget, perhaps Chord Dave should be included in the comparison?

 

[cangle]

Is there any chance you can get some of these dacs for a home demo? Also, for 10k budget, perhaps Chord Dave should be included in the comparison?

That's a good question. There's a dealer for some dacs nearby me but I don't have a relationship with them so not sure about a home demo. It would be more likely that I would bring my stuff to their store and try things out there.

The reason I didn't include the Chord Dave is because I think value wise it may not be the best also since I would need the m-scaler to get the best out of it. However since I have the Bricasti M1 in my list I might as well just to keep my options open. Also isn't the Dave due for a refresh?

 

[mammal]

That's a good question. There's a dealer for some dacs nearby me but I don't have a relationship with them so not sure about a home demo. It would be more likely that I would bring my stuff to their store and try things out there.

If you can, use this as an opportunity to build that relationship - it is priceless, in the long term. You could offer them to pay a full deposit on 2-3 dacs (at the time) and promise you will either end up buying one, or compensate them financially if you don't. That's how I built a relationship with 3 dealers now.

The reason I didn't include the Chord Dave is because I think value wise it may not be the best also since I would need the m-scaler to get the best out of it. However since I have the Bricasti M1 in my list I might as well just to keep my options open. Also isn't the Dave due for a refresh?

I wouldn't be so sure. I never owned Dave, but with Hugo TT 2 I did not like M Scaler. I know some folks that prefer Dave alone. BUT, you are right, unless you try Dave with and without M Scaler, you will never know. So perhaps it is safer not to even open that pandora box, if you know what I mean. As for a refresh, there aren't many rumours in Chord forums (at least not as many as in dCS forums about Vivaldi refresh).

 

[qboogie]

So I've been spending some time reading about various dacs in the 3-10k USD range to pair with the Formula S/Powerman. Here's a list of dacs that interest me at the moment:

Lampizator Amber 3
Denafrips Terminator or Terminator Plus
Holo May L2 or KTE
Audiobyte Hydra with Vox power supply
Rockna Wavelight
Bricasti M1SE
XIAudio Sagra

Has anyone had experience with any of these dacs or have any thoughts on what would or wouldn't pair well with the Formula S and Powerman? The Sagra dac will obviously pair well but I sent an email to Abyss to see what they think about it and if there's any other dacs that they have used with the amp. My thought is that even though the Sagra may be made for the Formula S and Powerman that I may be able to get more performance out of the amp by stepping up to a higher end dac. Also am open to other dacs that I haven't mentioned. Really just trying to consider my options and see what all is out there before I purchase something (I'm thinking later this year or early next year unless it's one of the more affordable dacs under 4-5k USD)

Be careful with the TT2 + FS/P (via RCA) because it causes a very low hum/buzzing noise when I listen to my verite closed (300 ohm, 99 db/mw) from the single ended output. Another verite owner has said it does the same thing with his too. This does not occur with the 1266 TC via SC balanced XLR3.

Additionally, the hum/buzz occurs even when the TT2 is switched off but plugged in. When I unplug the TT2 and it's briefly running off the residual small charge from its super capacitors, for 4-5 seconds the hum does disappear. When I switch to the Hugo 2 as the DAC the hum is not present. It seems it's noise from the TT2 itself made more prominent by the higher sensitivity of the verite cans themselves.

It's not coming from the M-scaler, which I disconnected from the chain. I experimented with plugging the TT2 both directly into the wall and into my power conditioner (iFi power station). I moved it away from my wifi router and cellphone just in case it was RFI noise.

I have not experimented with other headphones in this rig yet, or tried a different power cable. Will follow up w that.

This kinda bums me out because it means the FS/P is basically only useable with my 1266 TC. My only other main cans are the VO/VC.

I'll keep experimenting with different variables. It may just be that the TT2 + FS/P + verite combo just isn't meant to be.

I hope this serves as a warning to others looking into this particular chain.

My full chain just in case that's needed

Ibasso DX160 - supra USB - HMS - WAVE stream dual BNC - Hugo TT2 - JPS superconductor V RCA - Formula S / Powerman (power cord is JPS Pac silver) - superconductor Dual XLR3 - 1266 TC.

 

[Slim1970]

So I've been spending some time reading about various dacs in the 3-10k USD range to pair with the Formula S/Powerman. Here's a list of dacs that interest me at the moment:

Lampizator Amber 3
Denafrips Terminator or Terminator Plus
Holo May L2 or KTE
Audiobyte Hydra with Vox power supply
Rockna Wavelight
Bricasti M1SE
XIAudio Sagra

Has anyone had experience with any of these dacs or have any thoughts on what would or wouldn't pair well with the Formula S and Powerman? The Sagra dac will obviously pair well but I sent an email to Abyss to see what they think about it and if there's any other dacs that they have used with the amp. My thought is that even though the Sagra may be made for the Formula S and Powerman that I may be able to get more performance out of the amp by stepping up to a higher end dac. Also am open to other dacs that I haven't mentioned. Really just trying to consider my options and see what all is out there before I purchase something (I'm thinking later this year or early next year unless it's one of the more affordable dacs under 4-5k USD)

I see you have the Pontus II. How do you like its sound with Formula S? I have the Sagra DAC and love it. I also had the Chord TT2 paired with the Formula S before moving up to the Dave. Of those, I would say that I like the synergy that the R2R DAC provides with the Formula S.

I considered the Lampizator Amber 3, the Rockna Wavelight, Holo May KTE, and Denafrips Terminator Plus before getting a demo of the Sagra DAC thanks to @TDinCali and settling on it. I think he has the Holo May KTE now. Maybe he’ll chime in later with his thoughts.

I don’t think you can go wrong with any of them. It just depends on what sound signature you’re after. Since you have the Pontus II already, any of those other R2R DAC’s will be a natural upgrade path and give you more of that type of sound including the Sagra DAC. Is there a way you could demo any of them to see how much better they will be over the Pontus II?

 

[cangle]

I see you have the Pontus II. How do you like its sound with Formula S? I have the Sagra DAC and love it. I also had the Chord TT2 paired with the Formula S before moving up to the Dave. Of those, I would say that I like the synergy that the R2R DAC provides with the Formula S.

I considered the Lampizator Amber 3, the Rockna Wavelight, Holo May KTE, and Denafrips Terminator Plus before getting a demo of the Sagra DAC thanks to @TDinCali and settling on it. I think he has the Holo May KTE now. Maybe he’ll chime in later with his thoughts.

I don’t think you can go wrong with any of them. It just depends on what sound signature you’re after. Since you have the Pontus II already, any of those other R2R DAC’s will be a natural upgrade path and give you more of that type of sound including the Sagra DAC. Is there a way you could demo any of them to see how much better they will be over the Pontus II?

I think I posted a Pontus II impressions with Formula S and comparison to ADI-2 a couple of pages back.

Looks like we are interested in the same dacs and would definitely be interested in your friends thoughts on the May, Sagra and anything else they've heard.

The sound signature I'm going for is natural, fast, good texture, imaging, but not hyper analytical or cold. The ADI-2 does this thing where all the music is at the same level of depth which I don't like. I also don't want super warm, the level of warmth / smoothness I have with the Pontus II is fine but if anything could be a little less so.

I'm not a big fan of ordering through distributors which makes the Lampizator an easy purchase but the Rockna not so much. I like the idea of a manufacturer going direct to customers or having only one distributor like Denafrips with Vinshine. I feel like I am getting better value ordering direct or maybe I just have a bad attitude about the whole thing. Right now the 3 dacs that intrigue me the most are the Amber 3, Wavelight (even though I have to go through a distributor), and the Sagra dac. I'll have to look around for places to demo as when spending that kind of money it seems like a good idea plus I'm not in a rush to upgrade to any of these unless I go with the Sagra which is less than the other options I'm considering

 

[DJJEZ]

I use a DAVE and M-scaler with mine and love the combo. Had a TT2/M-Scaler before the dave and it was awesome as well but the DAVE is a whole different level. The holo may is getting a ton of praise so should be top of your list as well. I know quite a few people with them who love them. The rockna wavelight sounds amazing as well would love to try one .

 

[cangle]

I use a DAVE and M-scaler with mine and love the combo. Had a TT2/M-Scaler before the dave and it was awesome as well but the DAVE is a whole different level. The holo may is getting a ton of praise so should be top of your list as well. I know quite a few people with them who love them. The rockna wavelight sounds amazing as well would love to try one .

The reason I don't have the May on my list is because the Formula S is not balanced so can't take advantage of the full balanced May and I was told by someone who had used it that the the single ended output would not be as good as the balanced output. Plus the price recently went up and I haven't had any luck communicating with the Kitsune distributor

But that was only one person so maybe it's still worth considering

 

[ra990]

When I unplug the TT2 and it's briefly running off the residual small charge from its super capacitors, for 4-5 seconds the hum does disappear.

Try using a battery to power the TT2 (and even the MScaler) for a totally clean output.

 

[cangle]

Take a look at Audio Envy RCA cables. The reviews are almost universally positive. Insane price to performance ratio

Thanks again for this recommendation. I just ordered a pair of xlr interconnects and 2 power cables from them

 

[qboogie]

Thanks again for this recommendation. I just ordered a pair of xlr interconnects and 2 power cables from them

No problem. Hope they deliver. Their power cords are not as stiff and unwieldy as the JPS Pac silver that I am using for the Powerman. Also the way both cords fit into the Powerman socket is kind of loose. Is anyone else having a similarly loose fitting power cord?

 

[cangle]

A note on the hum that some have mentioned a few pages back. I do hear a hum with more sensitive headphones like LCD-4z and Ether CX. But I am hearing the hum with no music playing and the volume turned all the way up. The hum becomes noticeable when the knob goes to 7 o'clock or so which is way louder than I ever see myself going on this amp. It isn't really an issue when listening to music. Also I hear no hum with the 1266. It's only on the LCD-4z where I hear some noise right when I plug in the headphones but it's very quiet and I don't notice it when music is playing. I wouldn't recommend the 4z on this amp anyways just cause it's so easy to drive and the useable range of the volume knob even on low gain shows a bit of channel imbalance (to be expected with the alps pot they use).

The hum is not a problem for me though especially since I use the 1266 95% of the time and I hear no hum with that connected.

 

[Slim1970]

A note on the hum that some have mentioned a few pages back. I do hear a hum with more sensitive headphones like LCD-4z and Ether CX. But I am hearing the hum with no music playing and the volume turned all the way up. The hum becomes noticeable when the knob goes to 7 o'clock or so which is way louder than I ever see myself going on this amp. It isn't really an issue when listening to music. Also I hear no hum with the 1266. It's only on the LCD-4z where I hear some noise right when I plug in the headphones but it's very quiet and I don't notice it when music is playing. I wouldn't recommend the 4z on this amp anyways just cause it's so easy to drive and the useable range of the volume knob even on low gain shows a bit of channel imbalance (to be expected with the alps pot they use).

The hum is not a problem for me though especially since I use the 1266 95% of the time and I hear no hum with that connected.

I hear hum as well with my high sensitivity headphones. Like you, once music starts playing it’s not noticeable at all. I really like the attack and bite the Formula S adds to my LCD-4z’s even if there’s not much play on the volume dial. It’s the same with my Pioneer SE-Master1’s, which are really underrated headphones.

How are you liking the Pontus II with Formula S/Powerman? I’m loving what the Sagra DAC adds to the sound. The added weight and body the Sagra DAC adds is exactly what I felt was missing from the sound of the Formula S when I had my Hugo2 as the DAC.

 

[cangle]

I hear hum as well with my high sensitivity headphones. Like you, once music starts playing it’s not noticeable at all. I really like the attack and bite the Formula S adds to my LCD-4z’s even if there’s not much play on the volume dial. It’s the same with my Pioneer SE-Master1’s, which are really underrated headphones.

How are you liking the Pontus II with Formula S/Powerman? I’m loving what the Sagra DAC adds to the sound. The added weight and body the Sagra DAC adds is exactly what I felt was missing from the sound of the Formula S when I had my Hugo2 as the DAC.

The Pontus II gives depth to the music that the ADI-2 does not which was the dac I used previously. The Pontus II also helps the music sound more real by giving more texture to instruments.

I'm curious though what a better dac would give as the Pontus is still an entry level product from Denafrips. I'm interested in things like the Terminator Plus, Audiobyte Hydra, or the sagra dac that you use.