[smodtactical]

Just want to share a data point. I just built a BH Crack OTL amp.. no speed ball. And with my 800S, BS650 and ZMF atticus it sounds absolutely incredible. I really like the elekit tu8600 off the taps with a speaker tap cable but the Crack just sounds bigger, more 3d with better layering, more full romantic mid range. I was shocked an amp that costs $400 sounded so much better than a $2500+ tubes amp. But I guess elekit is a speaker amp first. This is btw a pretty upgraded elekit and Ive rolled elrog 300b, WE300b clones and all mullard input tubes.

 

[jamato8]

Just want to share a data point. I just built a BH Crack OTL amp.. no speed ball. And with my 800S, BS650 and ZMF atticus it sounds absolutely incredible. I really like the elekit tu8600 off the taps with a speaker tap cable but the Crack just sounds bigger, more 3d with better layering, more full romantic mid range. I was shocked an amp that costs $400 sounded so much better than a $2500+ tubes amp. But I guess elekit is a speaker amp first. This is btw a pretty upgraded elekit and Ive rolled elrog 300b, WE300b clones and all mullard input tubes.

What OPTs?

 

[smodtactical]

What OPTs?

Lundahl, vcap odams, tkd pot, takman

 

[Maven86]

Just want to share a data point. I just built a BH Crack OTL amp.. no speed ball. And with my 800S, BS650 and ZMF atticus it sounds absolutely incredible. I really like the elekit tu8600 off the taps with a speaker tap cable but the Crack just sounds bigger, more 3d with better layering, more full romantic mid range. I was shocked an amp that costs $400 sounded so much better than a $2500+ tubes amp. But I guess elekit is a speaker amp first. This is btw a pretty upgraded elekit and Ive rolled elrog 300b, WE300b clones and all mullard input tubes.

Have you tried those phones out of the headphone out via position 4 on the Elekit?

 

[toobuzz]

I mean, correct me if I’m wrong, running off the speaker taps would be a much lower output impedance than running out of the headphone section of the 8600 (or 8900, but especially the 8600 as it’s headphone section is much higher output impedance than the 8900). In that case, it is obvious to me why those particular high impedance headphones would sound awesome out of a Crack.

 

[Maven86]

I mean, correct me if I’m wrong, running off the speaker taps would be a much lower output impedance than running out of the headphone section of the 8600 (or 8900, but especially the 8600 as it’s headphone section is much higher output impedance than the 8900). In that case, it is obvious to me why those particular high impedance headphones would sound awesome out of a Crack.

That's pretty much it. If you were to remove the two highest output Z settings on my 8900, I'd choose the crack everytime with any high Z Senn or my ADX5000. IME with some headphones, usually those with higher Z, impedance matching is crucial.

 

[HiGHFLYiN9]

Just want to share a data point. I just built a BH Crack OTL amp.. no speed ball. And with my 800S, BS650 and ZMF atticus it sounds absolutely incredible. I really like the elekit tu8600 off the taps with a speaker tap cable but the Crack just sounds bigger, more 3d with better layering, more full romantic mid range. I was shocked an amp that costs $400 sounded so much better than a $2500+ tubes amp. But I guess elekit is a speaker amp first. This is btw a pretty upgraded elekit and Ive rolled elrog 300b, WE300b clones and all mullard input tubes.

Hey you like what you like It sounds like you are into the vintage warm tube sound. If you get into speakers check out the Dynaco ST70 or Cary Audio Six Packs, both very warm and full sounding. You'd also probably like the Little Dot mkII, I think that is the warmest sounding amp I've heard.

I've built a couple of Cracks ages ago, one standard and one with a 6SN7, and while they are fun they never really buttered my biscuits all that much. I moved on to a WooAudio3 which I found to be a little more resolving with the same warmth. It was a more complicated circuit. The Crack is about as simple as you can get which can be helpful for some objectives.

Best amp I've heard is still the LTA MZ3, but that's with lower impedance headphones. It's much more neutral than a Crack. I still haven't finished my 8900 though so the comparison remains to be seen. I gotta get to the powdercoater soon.

 

[JamieMcC]

Just want to share a data point. I just built a BH Crack OTL amp.. no speed ball. And with my 800S, BS650 and ZMF atticus it sounds absolutely incredible. I really like the elekit tu8600 off the taps with a speaker tap cable but the Crack just sounds bigger, more 3d with better layering, more full romantic mid range. I was shocked an amp that costs $400 sounded so much better than a $2500+ tubes amp. But I guess elekit is a speaker amp first. This is btw a pretty upgraded elekit and Ive rolled elrog 300b, WE300b clones and all mullard input tubes.

This is interesting.

I've built around a dozen Cracks some stock some hot rodded including a side to side listening of stock Vs fully tricked out with grail tubes. I could never ever imagine building a stock Crack for personal use again.

Though I do rember in his review Steve Guttenberg mentioned the 8600 TRS out was not the best.

Be interested to know what the rest of your chain is as the Crack is known not to be very transparent with a intimate soundstage.

So something seems a miss to me though I will freely admit I've never heard the TU8600 but the thought of the Crack besting it in anything but in saturated intimate tonality and rawness I find a bit shocking. Surely the TU8600 headphone performance can not be so poor as to be bested by a stock vanilla Crack.

Fwiw by far my favourite Crack was a non speedball one hot rodded with high speed diodes, Triad choke and the last electrolytic power supply cap replaced with a large film (motor run cap) and then three 30uf ex Russian military surplus Mbgo paper in oil tub capacitors aside for output caps with Russian teflon bypass capacitors and a glassware 36 step course and fine attenuator.

Superb liquid tonality and very much a beguiling listen if ever I was build one again it would be along those lines.

Also have the Bottlehead Sex and Mainline at home but the hd800 paired with the TU8900 I feel plays in a different league.

 

[Maven86]

This is interesting.

I've built around a dozen Cracks some stock some hot rodded including a side to side listening of stock Vs fully tricked out with grail tubes. I could never ever imagine building a stock Crack for personal use again.

Though I do rember in his review Steve Guttenberg mentioned the 8600 TRS out was not the best.

Be interested to know what the rest of your chain is as the Crack is known not to be very transparent
and a intimate soundstage.

So something seems a miss to me though I will freely admit I've never heard the TU8600 but the thought of the Crack besting it in anything but in saturated intimate tonality and rawness I find a bit shocking. Surely the TU8600 headphone performance can not be so poor as to be bested by a stock vanilla Crack.

Fwiw by far my favourite Crack was a non speedball one hot rodded with high speed diodes, Triad choke and the last electrolytic power supply cap replaced with a large film (motor run cap) and then three 30uf Russian Mbgo paper in oil tub capacitors aside for output caps with Russian teflon bypass capacitors and a glassware 36 step course and fine attenuator.

Superb liquid tonality and very much a beguiling listen if ever I was build one again it would be along those lines.

Also have the Bottlehead Sex and Mainline at home but the hd800 paired with the TU8900 I feel plays in a different league.

Definitely agree about the 8900 being in a different league and to a lesser extent the 8600 was as well. Maybe you both just have different preferences as to what kind of sound sig you're looking for. That being being said, I think I get why he likes the crack. From my experience, it's not the most resolving amp but when paired with certain High Z phones, like the Senn 6X0s, you get a very engaging sound with great PRaT and holographic imaging. The caveat is that this is also true out of the high Z outputs for almost any other decent amp I've tried including the A&S Kenzie, Zana Deux, and to a greater extent the 8900...along with the benefit of more resolution and other perks as you move up the chain.

Hey you like what you like It sounds like you are into the vintage warm tube sound. If you get into speakers check out the Dynaco ST70 or Cary Audio Six Packs, both very warm and full sounding. You'd also probably like the Little Dot mkII, I think that is the warmest sounding amp I've heard.

I've built a couple of Cracks ages ago, one standard and one with a 6SN7, and while they are fun they never really buttered my biscuits all that much. I moved on to a WooAudio3 which I found to be a little more resolving with the same warmth. It was a more complicated circuit. The Crack is about as simple as you can get which can be helpful for some objectives.

Best amp I've heard is still the LTA MZ3, but that's with lower impedance headphones. It's much more neutral than a Crack. I still haven't finished my 8900 though so the comparison remains to be seen. I gotta get to the powdercoater soon.

I mentioned not too long ago that I finally got to try the MZ3 over at LTA. With the planars like the LCD-X they had, it sounded very good. Neutral and transparent with excellent bass... I then plugged in my ADX5000 and the first thing I said was "what's the output impedance on these...?". Apparently for an OTL, it was only 2 ohms. The second highest output Z on the 8900 is allegedly 27ohms and out this setting I thought the ADX5000 was....meh. Out of the MZ3, it was just dead.

 

[jamato8]

I thought the ADX5000 was....meh. Out of the MZ3, it was just dead.

I am not sure what that means. :^)

 

[Maven86]

I am not sure what that means. :^)

From my experience, my preference for certain high Z phones like the ADX5000 seems to be heavily dependant on the output impedance of the amplifier. For example on the TU-8900, I think they sound amazing from the 60 ohm tap but just ok from the the 27 ohm one. As I go lower, I tend to like them less and less. At 2 ohms, they sound flat, boring, and lifeless.

 

[EagleWings]

Sometime in the future, I have plans of converting my 8900 into a pure HP amp by swapping in some custom OPTs with 8Z and 50Z secondaries.

 

[HiGHFLYiN9]

Haha I'll admit I pretty much only listen to low impedance cans these days. My HD650 and DT990 600R probably need a good dusting.

 

[Maven86]

Haha I'll admit I pretty much only listen to low impedance cans these days. My HD650 and DT990 600R probably need a good dusting.

Nothin wrong with some low Z luv. Honestly, they're a lot easier to pair with most of the current gear we have around.

 

[JamieMcC]

Might be of interest but when I was ABing the stock and modded Crack with premium tubes I was using both hd650 and Beyer T1. The HD650 sounded good on both amps but the T1 on the stock Crack was cold and lifeless, dead for a better word not what you would think at all being a hi Z phone (600 ohm) and OTL

However the Modded Crack gave the T1 a kiss of life great mids non sibilant, fast bass it was like listening to a completely different headphone it now had soul. Hard to believe what a difference just swapping a few like for like components can make.

Talking about measurements determining audio performance not sure where I saw it don't think it was audio related but medical science and how we can now see and measure virtually inside out the human body Xray, CT Cat scan, Mri scanner, genome profiling etc but non of todays science can tell you the character of a person, kind, generous, loyal, evil, honest, dishonest etc perhaps one of the most important things that makes us human. Just thought it interesting.