Elekit 300B Amp kit
Jan 27, 2022 at 9:58 PM Post #241 of 369
Nice update! I just built a little rca switcher box with that same Mundorf wire. What a great idea to use it for the jumpers.

I haven’t heard a Susvara, sorry. The HEDDphone directly out of the speaker taps of the 8900 while amazing sounding, has only 1 and a half clicks of usable travel on the TKD pot. I could put it in negative feedback mode but nah, nope. This is kind of why I bought those upgraded resistors. The headphone implementation seems pretty darn good, if not great on the 8900.
 
Jan 28, 2022 at 4:42 AM Post #242 of 369
Has anyone tried running the Susvaras out of the speaker taps of the 8600/8900?

I don't have Susvaras but do own Hifi Man HE6 which I drive off of the speaker taps (with adapter box) I've owned the HE6 for close to 8 years and tried a number of different amps in that time the TU-8900 drives the he6 superbly with both 2A3 and 300B tubes.
 
Jan 30, 2022 at 10:30 PM Post #243 of 369
Made a little progress this weekend. Left the V-Cap leads long just in-case I want to change things up with Jupiter Coppers. I found the PCB to be pretty smart with the LED lead-bending tool, the staggered holes to hold the socket strips and the illustrative screen print. This is my first Elekit and I like how they make things accessible.

Also it was like Where's Waldo trying to figure out where those Zener Diodes went :slight_smile:

Elekit TU-8900 Main Board with V-Caps.jpg
 
Feb 16, 2022 at 10:45 AM Post #247 of 369
I received this amp around two days ago after getting it built from a really quality guy (the "Headamp Builder" on etsy, if anyone was curious). I basically wanted a TotL amp that could power speakers and headphones and had a good deal of versatility. For the most part, I stuck with Victor's build, but I did sub the vcap cutf's in with some Duelund tinned copper to provide some additional warmth, and I also had my builder tinker a bit with the resistor network that goes to the headphone out after hearing that series resistors tend to degrade the sound.

A preliminary warning: this amp has only been burnt in for around 35 hours or so, and it supposedly takes quite a bit more time to burn-in. I've been switching between Tung-Sol and Fivre 12BH7a drivers, with Linlai Elite power tubes. So far, I think this amp is pretty remarkable, albeit with a couple important drawbacks. Firstly, in terms of clarity, layering, sheer sense of space, separation, and microdynamic nuance, it is at least a league better than anything that I have heard before (yes, that includes the ECP 3F and TU-8800). It handles music with an ease and effortlessness I don't think I've ever heard before. In short, it provides a clearer window "into" the music than any other amp I've heard, and I've never once heard it sound remotely congested in a busy passage. Though the stage isn't massive, images are extremely well-localized. Bass, though not particularly slamming, has a supremely nuanced sense of pitch, texture, and control. And the sense of decay, delineation and air around treble notes is at times awe-inspiring: the cymbals in "dreams" seem to run on forever, and one can actually hear with more tangibility the precise changes in volume of these instruments as the strike of the cymbal decays slowly into nothingness. All this is, to say the least, fairly impressive.

That being said, I do have some quibbles with the way that it represents instrument textures in the mid-range. It has a sort of high-end "sheen" to it which tends to lead to a homogenization of mid-range timbres. For what it's worth, this is something I've heard on every amp with Lundahl transformers (including the 3F and 8800), though to a perhaps lesser extent than what is present in the 8900. In short, there's a kind of almost artificial top-end sparkle that crowds out the crunch and presence of mid-range elements like voices and strings while also tending to make their timbres all sound alike. It also is just a tad harsh-sounding, akin to the way that a Focal sounds, albeit without the "metallic" timbre or "edge" to the transients. In fact, the transient edges are, if anything, not adequately well-represented: the amp lacks a certain sense of grunt and bite that even the much cheaper ZMF Pendant OG had. Since this amp also tends to lack any sort of notable warmth or wetness in the mid-range, this can occasionally lead to a sound that is simultaneously sterile and unengaging. For the most part, I don't find myself tapping my foot with this amp despite it having what I think are the best microdynamics I've ever heard - there just isn't enough sense of "realism" and palpability to the instruments or attack in the transients, two things which I think are essential to musical engagement.

For what it's worth, many of these problems have been getting less noticeable as the amp has burnt in, and I also think that they are at least partially due to the pairing with the Soekris 2541, especially since this amp is supposedly quite sensitive to sources. In fact, when I used my loaner r2r Cayin dongle, many of these issues, particularly the timbral ones, entirely disappeared, though the amp did take a hit technically. What I surmise from this is that to a good extent, this amp tends to take on the timbre of the sources that it's used with. In this way, this amp reminds me a good deal of the Focal Utopia - it's extremely revealing and a tad on the thin side, so pairing with the correct components is going to be absolutely essential to getting the most out of it, since its sheer transparency will tend to make it very sensitive to the gear that it is paired with.

I am going to burn-in this amp a good deal more, potentially swap caps, and give it a go with an Abbas 2.3se, since I really do think it would benefit from an aggressive, full-bodied dac (the soekris 2541, which is simultaneously thin, relaxed, and lacking in plankton, seems like exactly the -wrong- kind of pairing for this amp). I will let you all know what I think when I do so, but for now, this amp is not quite the slam dunk which I thought it would be.
 
Feb 16, 2022 at 11:27 AM Post #248 of 369
That being said, I do have some quibbles with the way that it represents instrument textures in the mid-range. It has a sort of high-end "sheen" to it which tends to lead to a homogenization of mid-range timbres. For what it's worth, this is something I've heard on every amp with Lundahl transformers (including the 3F and 8800), though to a perhaps lesser extent than what is present in the 8900. In short, there's a kind of almost artificial top-end sparkle that crowds out the crunch and presence of mid-range elements like voices and strings while also tending to make their timbres all sound alike. It also is just a tad harsh-sounding, akin to the way that a Focal sounds, albeit without the "metallic" timbre or "edge" to the transients.
This is an interesting observation, and diving into the details I suppose it's not surprising.

From what I've discovered over the years is that with wire, the dielectric makes much of the audible difference. If you look at Nordost cables for example, they are thin and wide which allows the most amount of surface area for dielectric to affect. People tend to say that Nordost cables emphasize the top-end. Cardas cables use individual isolated enameled strands in the typical round wire configuration and are generally thought of as "warm".

The understanding that with tube amps with OPTs, much of what you are listening to is the OPTs, thus the need for quality. So what we can infer from different sounding cables is that the dielectric will make a notable difference in these OPTs. Now where normal transformers are just wrapped bobbin-style with magnet wire where the only real insulation is the enamel coating, Lundahl uses insulation between each layer that's wrapped around the core. Given that there is a large amount of wire surrounded by dielectric the output has to go through to reach the binding posts, the dielectric is likely causing the effect you are describing. For people who subscribe to burn-in, the belief is that the dielectric forms after so many hours. The empirical and far-from-scientific rule of thumb that PVC, PE, XLPE, etc. are usually around 100 hours, and PTFE around 200. Even after a period of burn-in, I don't think the Lundahls will ever sound like a typical bobbin transformer because of the way the dielectric is employed. The way Lundahls are made is more expensive, more thoughtful, and they likely measure better than a typical transformer, but at the end of the day it's listener preferences that matter most. You may find that you prefer the standard OPTs over the Lundahls if things don't settle in the way you'd like.

Given how much the OPTs affect the sound, you can understand the motivation for the Berning designs that mostly eliminate them. Still I enjoy both options :)
 
Feb 16, 2022 at 11:47 AM Post #249 of 369
Welcome to the club

Your not alone several of us here have had similar experiences with how the amp sounds when new. I was seriously underwhelmed myself during initial listening.

Stick with it and rack up the hours once past 100hrs I thought there was a significant improvement. I also noticed a similar sheen which was very distracting once heard but had put it down to the V-Cap cutf which requires a notoriously long burn in. However I am open to this effect possibly being the AM transformers as well

Fwiw thankfully whatever the cause after around 500 hours it had disappeared completely.
 
Feb 16, 2022 at 12:07 PM Post #250 of 369
I received this amp around two days ago after getting it built from a really quality guy (the "Headamp Builder" on etsy, if anyone was curious). I basically wanted a TotL amp that could power speakers and headphones and had a good deal of versatility. For the most part, I stuck with Victor's build, but I did sub the vcap cutf's in with some Duelund tinned copper to provide some additional warmth, and I also had my builder tinker a bit with the resistor network that goes to the headphone out after hearing that series resistors tend to degrade the sound.

A preliminary warning: this amp has only been burnt in for around 35 hours or so, and it supposedly takes quite a bit more time to burn-in. I've been switching between Tung-Sol and Fivre 12BH7a drivers, with Linlai Elite power tubes. So far, I think this amp is pretty remarkable, albeit with a couple important drawbacks. Firstly, in terms of clarity, layering, sheer sense of space, separation, and microdynamic nuance, it is at least a league better than anything that I have heard before (yes, that includes the ECP 3F and TU-8800). It handles music with an ease and effortlessness I don't think I've ever heard before. In short, it provides a clearer window "into" the music than any other amp I've heard, and I've never once heard it sound remotely congested in a busy passage. Though the stage isn't massive, images are extremely well-localized. Bass, though not particularly slamming, has a supremely nuanced sense of pitch, texture, and control. And the sense of decay, delineation and air around treble notes is at times awe-inspiring: the cymbals in "dreams" seem to run on forever, and one can actually hear with more tangibility the precise changes in volume of these instruments as the strike of the cymbal decays slowly into nothingness. All this is, to say the least, fairly impressive.

That being said, I do have some quibbles with the way that it represents instrument textures in the mid-range. It has a sort of high-end "sheen" to it which tends to lead to a homogenization of mid-range timbres. For what it's worth, this is something I've heard on every amp with Lundahl transformers (including the 3F and 8800), though to a perhaps lesser extent than what is present in the 8900. In short, there's a kind of almost artificial top-end sparkle that crowds out the crunch and presence of mid-range elements like voices and strings while also tending to make their timbres all sound alike. It also is just a tad harsh-sounding, akin to the way that a Focal sounds, albeit without the "metallic" timbre or "edge" to the transients. In fact, the transient edges are, if anything, not adequately well-represented: the amp lacks a certain sense of grunt and bite that even the much cheaper ZMF Pendant OG had. Since this amp also tends to lack any sort of notable warmth or wetness in the mid-range, this can occasionally lead to a sound that is simultaneously sterile and unengaging. For the most part, I don't find myself tapping my foot with this amp despite it having what I think are the best microdynamics I've ever heard - there just isn't enough sense of "realism" and palpability to the instruments or attack in the transients, two things which I think are essential to musical engagement.

For what it's worth, many of these problems have been getting less noticeable as the amp has burnt in, and I also think that they are at least partially due to the pairing with the Soekris 2541, especially since this amp is supposedly quite sensitive to sources. In fact, when I used my loaner r2r Cayin dongle, many of these issues, particularly the timbral ones, entirely disappeared, though the amp did take a hit technically. What I surmise from this is that to a good extent, this amp tends to take on the timbre of the sources that it's used with. In this way, this amp reminds me a good deal of the Focal Utopia - it's extremely revealing and a tad on the thin side, so pairing with the correct components is going to be absolutely essential to getting the most out of it, since its sheer transparency will tend to make it very sensitive to the gear that it is paired with.

I am going to burn-in this amp a good deal more, potentially swap caps, and give it a go with an Abbas 2.3se, since I really do think it would benefit from an aggressive, full-bodied dac (the soekris 2541, which is simultaneously thin, relaxed, and lacking in plankton, seems like exactly the -wrong- kind of pairing for this amp). I will let you all know what I think when I do so, but for now, this amp is not quite the slam dunk which I thought it would be.
Welcome to the club, and it sounds like you are in Negative feedback mode, try removing it ?
 
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Feb 16, 2022 at 7:56 PM Post #251 of 369
Interestingly listening session this evening after starting off with hd800 and later deciding to switch to the he6. I tend to listen with the hd800 from the front panel the most as have some speakers hooked up on the rear, due to placing it's a bit of a faff to swap from the speakers to adaptor box to run the He6.

This was actually the first time running the HE6 with 300B and no feedback. What bowled me over was the amount of texture and saturated tone present with the he6 its effortless liquidity along with that visceral punch its renowned for. Very much an immersive and music first experience a lot of the technicals still present but not dissected and presented as spacious as with the hd800.

Once in a while I have the silly notion to move on the he6 as it often sits gathering dust whilst the hd800 hogs the limelight but it's sessions like this that remind me what a fantastic headphone it is and just how enjoyable listening in what feels like technicolour compared to the hd800 can be.

If only there was a headphone combing the best of both of these old flagships of yesteryear.....end game for sure.
 
Mar 6, 2022 at 8:33 PM Post #252 of 369
Just in case anyone wanted to know the output Z values for the different headphone settings. Had the missus send Elekit an e-mail and they responded promptly:

LZ-L: 3.1ohm
LZ-M: 7.2ohm
LZ-H: 15ohm
HZ-M: 26ohm
HZ-H: 60ohm

You can also calculate the values yourself using the circuit schematic in the back of the manual. Just sum up the resistor values in the corresponding circuit path and plug them into the calculator below (for resistors in parallel, the value will be inverse e.g 120ohm --> 1/120ohm).

http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-InputOutputImpedance.htm

There's also a formula there for those who are all about that pen and paper method. Compliments to @HiGHFLYiN9 for the link and resources.
 

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Mar 6, 2022 at 8:36 PM Post #253 of 369
Just in case anyone wanted to know the output Z values for the different headphone settings. Had the missus send Elekit an e-mail and they responded promptly:

LZ-L: 3.1ohm
LZ-M: 7.2ohm
LZ-H: 15ohm
HZ-M: 26ohm
HZ-H: 60ohm

You can also calculate the values yourself using the circuit schematic in the back of the manual. Just sum up the resistor values in the corresponding circuit path and plug them into the calculator below (for resistors in parallel, the value will be inverse e.g 120ohm --> 1/120ohm).

http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-InputOutputImpedance.htm

There's also a formula there for those who are all about that pen and paper method. Compliments to @HiGHFLYiN9 for the link and resources.
Thank you ! Glad you have got that out of the way
 
Mar 6, 2022 at 8:39 PM Post #254 of 369
No real updates as I'm waiting on my powdercoater to have some free time to color the chassis. I did create a vector for an engraved plate. If anyone wants a copy of the file let me know.

unnamed.jpg
Is that metal engraved plate ?

Could you customize something like “Lundahl Inside” ? Or something to indicate that the amp has Lundahl upgraded ?
 
Mar 6, 2022 at 8:52 PM Post #255 of 369
Is that metal engraved plate ?

Could you customize something like “Lundahl Inside” ? Or something to indicate that the amp has Lundahl upgraded ?
Yes, I do the art and have a trophy shop make them for me. I'm sure I could. I'm not sure I'd do it for mine but if you want me to make a vector for you and give you the store contact just let me know.
 

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