Eddie Current Balancing Act

[vcoheda]

thought the KR's weren't readily available, so i guess it is between that and sophia's for PX4 tubes.

 

[jrisles]

Quote:

The Balancing Act will definitely not embarrass the WA 22...  In my opinion the Balancing act is a nicer sounding amp.  It just needs a bit more power,, in order to drive the K 1000. 
 
 
I would like to know why the Balancing act was built with out the power to drive the K 1000? If a pair of 300b can drive speakers why can't they drive the K 1000? That's a good question for Dr. Kevin or Spritzer..

I emailed Craig about this .. always best to get it from the source. And this is what he had to say. I am sure Craig won't mind if i quote him as he gets quoted often on here.
 
The BA has plenty of power to drive the K1000 headphones, it is not a power issue it is a gain issue. The BA driven with a 4V source will play the K1000 uncomfortably loud. Many BA owners are more than happy with the level as is. The K1000 is not a head banger headphone. Add to that they are getting rare. Yes The driver tube can be changed to add 6, or even 12dB of gain to the amplifier, but in my opinion it will not sound as good as it does on more sensitive easier to drive headphones. Another reason to be honest I think the K1000 sucks, it is a dismal listening experience. No bass, they are heavy, and uncomfortable. One can get a better image, and listening experience by placing two high quality bookshelf speakers a few feet apart and towing them inward.

 

[daveDerek]

Quote:

Oh come on .... is this hobby getting ridiculously expensive or what ....

... $10k for a headphone amp .... anyone here tried one? Perhaps not on this thread .. ok i will search head-fi for reviews.

here ya go: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/515268/my-review-of-the-apex-pinnacle-and-comparison-to-the-307a
 
the 307a was closer in price to the BA, although it was still pricier. and of course the lovely WA5, which costs less than these other units, while not truly a balanced amp it does have a 4 pin jack for the k1000. and fwiw, to my eye it's a more beautiful looking piece than the retro industrial designs of the BA & Millet units. it's hard to go wrong with any of these amps, although your wallet (and spouse) may not agree

.

 

[Uncle Erik]

Quote:

Oh come on .... is this hobby getting ridiculously expensive or what ....

... $10k for a headphone amp ....

Yeah, it's a lot of money.  But, typically, retail is four times the parts cost.  One I'm working on gathering the parts for uses a pair of 45 tubes on the outputs, has interstage transformers and a few more pieces of iron in the power supply.  Heck, it cost me over $500 just to get the output transformers over from Sowter.  I would not be surprised if the total parts cost, including casing, ended up between $2,500 and $3,000.  I'm going all out with boutique caps and resistors, too.  It would have to sell around $7,000-$8,000 to be worthwhile to manufacture.  If you really want the exotica, it will put the hurt on your wallet.  DIY saves some money and lets you cherrypick the parts you want, but you'll end up with a bit of sweat equity in the amp.
 
Check out the prices on some of the exotic DHT fleawatt speaker amps.  In terms of parts, they're not much different from headphone amps.  Indeed, a few of them can be rejiggered into headphone amps, like what I'm doing with the 45 amp.  That one was originally designed for speakers, but I noticed that a pair of Sowter headphone-specific output transformers (very cool - they have multiple taps for varying impedances, and I'll include a switch to take advantage of them) would work instead of the ones specified for speakers.  It has 1.5W of power, so while slightly overkill, it is in the ballpark and shouldn't break a sweat running headphones.
 
So... I would not be surprised to see five-figure headphone amps given the uptick in top-tier headphone prices and availability.
 
It seems that the market exists and there is some precedent for people dropping this kind of money on speaker gear.

 

[daveDerek]

Quote:

Quote:
Yeah, it's a lot of money.  But, typically, retail is four times the parts cost.  

 
with a more traditional marketing structure that includes middle men and advertising the markup is sometimes higher, in the 5-7x range.
and now i'll contradict myself with a different example

. years ago i was told, by a source who would have intimate knowledge of the situation, that the Rockport tt (~$60k at that time, iirc) cost >$30k to manufacture.


 
Quote:

Quote:
One I'm working on (snip/edit] I would not be surprised if the total parts cost, including casing, ended up between $2,500 and $3,000.
[snip]
Indeed, a few of them can be rejiggered into headphone amps, like what I'm doing with the 45 amp.  That one was originally designed for speakers, but I noticed that a pair of Sowter headphone-specific output transformers (very cool - they have multiple taps for varying impedances, and I'll include a switch to take advantage of them) would work instead of the ones specified for speakers.  It has 1.5W of power, so while slightly overkill, it is in the ballpark and shouldn't break a sweat running headphones.

 
interesting design. it sounds a bit like how my little dot III is configured. it has an autotransformer that senses the impedance of the attached headphone and adjusts itself accordingly. it also has speaker taps. it can power any dynamic from a grado to an akg k1000. do you think you're design can run a k1k? 1.5w sounds a little low for that. it'll probably sound awesome with some vintage akgs though, such as a k340 or k240 sextett ! 

 

 

[markmaxx]

I am 52 years old, so with all the abuse my ears have taken over the years, I am sure they are not as sensitive as they used to be... But..
 
Craig, having to say that the K 1000 has Plenty of power, just shows that it doesn't have plenty of power...There are no! reports of the BA not driving the HD 650/HD 800/LCD 2 loud or powerful enough because the BA has plenty of power for these... The gain on the BA is marginal for the K 1000  or no one would have complained about it...(they could just turn up the volume, because it is such a powerful k 1000 amp) I listen to my LCD 2 at about 10:00 on the volume control for normal listening.. so there is a lot more volume/power left..  I can easily/comfortably listen the the K 1000 all the way up for hours its not even close to powerful... PS no head banger here.  I listen to mostly, simple,small venue, live Jazz recordings.. I love my Balancing Act,, but it will not drive with authority the K 1000.  Sorry Craig.. 
 
 
 

 
 
The BA has plenty of power to drive the K1000 headphones, it is not a power issue it is a gain issue. The BA driven with a 4V source will play the K1000 uncomfortably loud. Many BA owners are more than happy with the level as is. The K1000 is not a head banger headphone. 

 

[blubliss]

That's interesting. I can't turn my amp past 3 o'clock with the K1000, it would be way too loud. But, I like the amp much, much better with the R10, and it is sublime with the HD800 and EML 300B tubes. For those saying it is not great with the HD800 my guess is that is tube choice, or source. To suggest using different ICs instead of rolling tubes is asinine.

 

[n3rdling]

Glad you're enjoying the BA/R10 combo Andy

 I need to hear a BA some day to see how it compares to the Menace.

 

[markmaxx]

Quote:

That's interesting. I can't turn my amp past 3 o'clock with the K1000, it would be way too loud. But, I like the amp much, much better with the R10, and it is sublime with the HD800 and EML 300B tubes. For those saying it is not great with the HD800 my guess is that is tube choice, or source. To suggest using different ICs instead of rolling tubes is asinine.

Maybe the difference is a little my age, and some the source? I wish I could get over the price of the R 10,,and the lack of parts..I would love a set.. I have been thinking of the 300b option you like the EML? have you ever heard the balancing act with any other 300b?

 

[blubliss]

Your source seems pretty darn solid.  I am 10 years younger, who knows?  Seems a little odd.
 
I have tried 4 sets of 300B I think (two Craig lent me but I don't remember now, Genalex PX300B, and the EML).  I would not have gotten the EML but I had bought a set of KR PX4 from this tube place and the guy would not refund my money when the set was bad and he had no more in stock.  Pretty lame, will never buy from him again.  Anyway, I settled for the EML 300B and some cash back and these are much better than the other 300Bs i heard.  Of course, things are so system dependent so who knows if they will work for you??
 
I think I like them better than the KR PX4 so far (got a set from Craig).  The midrange is just to die for, I guess I understand now why people praise the 300B midrange.   The different 300Bs definitely sound different, so if you read that this or that headphone sounds not as good with a 300B, it's important to know which 300B. 
 
I am using an RCA gray glass in front. 

 

[zippy2001]

I've heard the Balancing Act with the Sophia PX4, KR PX4 and various 300Bs.  The Sophia PX4 sounds better than the cheaper 300Bs, the KR PX4 sounds better than the Sophia PX4, but with the right 300B it does sound great.  I don't remember which 300B that Craig had, but it sounded excellent and the midrange really did shine.

 

[rosgr63]

Quote:

Maybe the difference is a little my age, and some the source? I wish I could get over the price of the R 10,,and the lack of parts..I would love a set.. I have been thinking of the 300b option you like the EML? have you ever heard the balancing act with any other 300b?

Mark if it's any conciliation my RWA 30.2 drives the K1000 better than the BA.
As for tubes, well I have tried JJ, KR, EAT 300B's and Sofia, KR PX4's.
Source is a Weiss DAC2, interconnects Nordost Heimdal XLR. 

 

[vcoheda]

what are differences in sound between 300B and PX4. also are the KR PX4s much better than the Sophia's
 
thanks

 

[regal]

Anyone tried Full Music PX4's,  they are less than half the price of KR and the curves look better than the Sophias ?

 

[XXII]

The Sophia should be a rebrand of the full music px4. I've just received a pair that I ordered.