Earsonics sm3 V2

[munkyballz]

Quote:

 
Munky: Your suggestions for "fast, analytical, clean and clear" are helpful. What about the Grado IEMs? Their full-sized cans are probab. the fastest 'phones I've heard, tho' mid-range-heavy.
 

Most people have backed up saying the SM3 is anything but slow.  Okay, maybe they're not slow, but I wouldn't call them fast.  They lack a bit of peppiness imho, fast as the DBA's?  I can't see it.  It's like Jared from subway versus mr./ms. random x from Kenya in a marathon. 
 
Sure it does lack the "sparkle" of the faster BA's, maybe that has a bit to do with its illusion, but I still think they're slower than the "stereotypical" ideal BA image.  I think you were right alpha, when you say that they're lush, but "laid back"-ish.  Just a very lush, indulgent, and relaxing earphone in general I think, I mean this is more of the laid back, sipping a cocktail in the setting sun Hemingway versus the running of the bulls one.  Not that it can't sprint, it just prefers to chill.
 
Though, if you brain-burn it for awhile or play around with amps (I found contrary to most opinions and find that they do respond a bit w/ amplification, fwiw) and what not, there are ways to liven it up and as you get accustomed to the sound, it does seemingly "clear" up a bit of the "novice nasal congestion syndrome".  Everything is there (bass, mids, treble, dynamics, character), just that the mids are a bit in your face, so it can overshadow the other elements initially.  Kind of like the hot friend of the friend you meet.  She's got the legs, face, hips, great unique character and personality, but you don't notice all that first because she's got very obvious and attention grabbing "blossoming" in her, erm, mids.  It's only after a few meetings and convo's that you're like, dang, this girl is a total package and a catch!
 
__
 
Any ways, back to the OG-q?.  I have not heard the Grados, but I believe the sound is quite close to the Orto-twins, which I have yet to try myself either.  Though for sure, you will get rid of that haziness or laze characteristic that you hear with the SM3's.  Contrary to full size Grados; however, I believe I read somewhere that they are actually not mid-range heavy nor extremely bright, or not too much at the least, so might definitely be worth a look.
 
 
 

 

[meurglys0]

Quote:

Though, if you brain-burn it for awhile or play around with amps (I found contrary to most opinions and find that they do respond a bit w/ amplification, fwiw) and what not, there are ways to liven it up and as you get accustomed to the sound, it does seemingly "clear" up a bit of the "novice nasal congestion syndrome".  Everything is there (bass, mids, treble, dynamics, character), just that the mids are a bit in your face, so it can overshadow the other elements initially.  Kind of like the hot friend of the friend you meet.  She's got the legs, face, hips, great unique character and personality, but you don't notice all that first because she's got very obvious and attention grabbing "blossoming" in her, erm, mids.  It's only after a few meetings and convo's that you're like, dang, this girl is a total package and a catch!
 
 
Wonderful allegory! Surely noone can misinterpret your words now... I'll use similar allegories based on first meetings, female body parts etc. to explain myself from now on, too! So thanks for the tip...
__
 
Any ways, back to the OG-q?.  I have not heard the Grados, but I believe the sound is quite close to the Orto-twins, which I have yet to try myself either.  Though for sure, you will get rid of that haziness or laze characteristic that you hear with the SM3's.  Contrary to full size Grados; however, I believe I read somewhere that they are actually not mid-range heavy nor extremely bright, or not too much at the least, so might definitely be worth a look.
 
 
 

 
I borrowed a friend's Ortofon eq-7 for a week. That experience made me love my SM3 even more. I concluded that eq-7 was great, but it wasn't a match to SM3. Everryone needs to make his own desicion for himslef though...
 
By the way some people may disagree, but I noticed that the mids of eq-7 were far more dominant and "attention grabbing" than SM3's mids. Maybe it's due to SM3's smooth, easy-on-the-ear/laid back style that I grew to love so much that made eq-7's mids sound too intrusive to me. Anyway if it wasn't for the SM3, I felt I would have liked the eq-7 more... That's just my opinion of course, not a call for discussion...
 
 

 

[Donnyhifi]

Alphaman,
 
It would be nice to see far more competitive offerings from the German Austrian Giants, it seems like they aren't even trying!
Those AKG's look interesting though the price is insane, not sure if I can justify spending that much on universals, crazy! Judging from the pics the cable is not even replaceable, that is disappointing unless of course they offer a lifetime warranty, that would be sweet

 
 
 
 
As for all this discussion about the SM3's, they may not make everyone happy but that is just the nature of the game, if we all liked vanilla it would be a very boring world!
 
The SM3's are more than a FOTM, they are a top tier IEM and they sound excellent and very competitive amongst its peers. I for one think its better than almost all the universals I've heard with only the Sony MDR-EX800ST being better SQ wise but the latter has little isolation, less fun and lost its seal frequently while I was moving. I think when it comes to the upper tier universals they all have their positives and negatives, it all depends which flavor suits you the best.
 
 
Cheers,
 
Donny

 

[alphaman]

Quote:

Most people have backed up saying the SM3 is anything but slow.  Okay, maybe they're not slow, but I wouldn't call them fast.  They lack a bit of peppiness imho, fast as the DBA's?  I can't see it.  It's like Jared from subway versus mr./ms. random x from Kenya in a marathon. 
 
Sure it does lack the "sparkle" of the faster BA's, maybe that has a bit to do with its illusion, but I still think they're slower than the "stereotypical" ideal BA image.  I think you were right alpha, when you say that they're lush, but "laid back"-ish.  Just a very lush, indulgent, and relaxing earphone in general I think, I mean this is more of the laid back, sipping a cocktail in the setting sun Hemingway versus the running of the bulls one.  Not that it can't sprint, it just prefers to chill.
 
Though, if you brain-burn it for awhile or play around with amps (I found contrary to most opinions and find that they do respond a bit w/ amplification, fwiw) and what not, there are ways to liven it up and as you get accustomed to the sound, it does seemingly "clear" up a bit of the "novice nasal congestion syndrome".  Everything is there (bass, mids, treble, dynamics, character), just that the mids are a bit in your face, so it can overshadow the other elements initially.  Kind of like the hot friend of the friend you meet.  She's got the legs, face, hips, great unique character and personality, but you don't notice all that first because she's got very obvious and attention grabbing "blossoming" in her, erm, mids.  It's only after a few meetings and convo's that you're like, dang, this girl is a total package and a catch!
 
__
 
Any ways, back to the OG-q?.  I have not heard the Grados, but I believe the sound is quite close to the Orto-twins, which I have yet to try myself either.  Though for sure, you will get rid of that haziness or laze characteristic that you hear with the SM3's.  Contrary to full size Grados; however, I believe I read somewhere that they are actually not mid-range heavy nor extremely bright, or not too much at the least, so might definitely be worth a look.

Agree that they are not "fast", at least compared to IE8. Still, a lot of folks/reviewers note that SM3s are fast and dynamic. Dunno what to say about that??!!
 
SM3v2's are, IMO anyway, ... too tame, too gentle, & too afraid to bite (when biting and violence seems appropriate). In one (simple, unsophisticated but IMO accurate) word, they're boring. That said, they are quite lush, with "good" bloom. They are like a rich/dense holiday cake (fruit  and nut cake) that you enjoy/savor slowly (and could never eat too fast unless you had been starving in a concentration camp!). But you've got to like holiday fruit and nut cakes. To use a "food" analogy, I'm looking for an IEM equivalent of the better nutrition bars (Balance Bar) and protein/vitamin/mineral powder mixes (the kind top athletes use). No cooking, no clean up, nothing to waste time ...
 
I think a next IEM to try may be Victor JVC FX700. From the review's n' 'rite-ups, their sonic charac. seems to be up my alley.
 

 

[munkyballz]

I wouldn't call them speed demons, nor would I call them slow,  I just think they are a little more laid back in speed compared to the "typical BA" generalized or ideal signature.  Boring isn't what I would label them either, just lush, smooth, and ethereally dream-like. 
 
It's like dropping some acid and popping a couple pills of Oxy's and then hanging out in Vegas with Johnny Depp in Fear and Loathing... 
 
You probably would like the FX-700, it is by far, one of the top dynamics out there, and perfect w/o any need for mods, amps, sources, whatever.  Clean, clear, dynamic, bass and treble like a mutha'.  Although you will lose a bit of mid-range focus (it's there, just not as good as its bass and treble, therefore some might label slightly recessed).  Beautifully and solidly built. 
 
I would say it's like doing a couple lines of yayo and dropping a couple pills of 'x', hanging out in Vegas with that Zach G. dude in The Hangover.
 
Different experiences, neither who's the say which would be more interesting or enjoyable...

 

[alphaman]

Too polite ... that's exactly the adjective that came to mind as I made my way back from my usual bicycle/exercise outing -- an activity in which I use a DAP, headphone amp, and IEMs. Indeed, if one needs driving beat, pace and rhythm -- and one has heard IEMs better capable of these sonic attributes (IE8s, FX700, etc.) -- then these activities are much less enjoyable (and more chore-like) with the "wrong" cans. Not what I want.  In fact, I very rarely just listen to music/audio programming (i.e., for its own sake). If the source is good -- because of skill of musician(s) or composer(s); and/or the SQ capabilities of the conveying gear is exceptional -- then it should sneak up on me and distract me from whatever other mental activities I am concurrently multi-taking with (hey, this is the 21st century, and we've almost always got our plates full). I'm afraid the SM3 -- probably EarSonics in general -- are the wrong cans for my requirements. 
 
Munkey: (and sorry to go off-topic) but about those  FX-700s ... I've heard their isolation stinks. Do you/anyone know of ways of improving it? I mean ala Sensorcom (or similar)...
 
 

 

[shotgunshane]

The JVC's are vented in the back, so there's not a whole lot you can do.  I believe the vent is part of the secret to their eargasmic sound.  But from your description of how you want your music presented, the JVC's would do exactly that.  I'm just not sure how great they would be with the wind noise of riding a bike.
 
On another note, the SM3's are great with vocal first music and slow/downer metal like Clutch.

 

[alphaman]

Quote:

The JVC's are vented in the back, so there's not a whole lot you can do.  I believe the vent is part of the secret to their eargasmic sound.  But from your description of how you want your music presented, the JVC's would do exactly that.  I'm just not sure how great they would be with the wind noise of riding a bike.
 
On another note, the SM3's are great with vocal first music and slow/downer metal like Clutch.

Good point about the bike + wind noise. And that's definitely something that SM3 (and similar IEM designs) have going for them. 
A possible (and not perfect) solution is to use this:
http://www.slipstreamz.com/news.asp?upd=1&newsID=10
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/02/technology/02headphones.html

(In fact, if you have IEM isolation problems anywhere, the Slipstream product can help).
You can also use wide headband  -- one that also covers ears. In addition, I use wide fabric (breathable) Band-Aids stuck over the IEM'd ear (and then cover them with a headband). I always wear a bike helmet, and that (with its strap) also helps somewhat with contouring/spoiling air/wind.

 
I think the air-mass-flow issues with the JVC should be okay with above solutions. If not, its easy enough to experiment with portable gear. (This is why I don't miss old-fashioned living-room hi-fi. Speakers and amplifiers are heavy!).
 
Don't wanna preach but for 'legal reasons' I've gotta add  ... learning to riding a bike safely with IEMs is important. Use rear-view mirrors (which you can attach to the inside/outside of glasses/goggles) or (better yet) the ones that attach to the helmet. Also, when it gets dark, wear light/contrasting clothing, & use lights and reflectors.
 
 

 

[shotgunshane]

Those slipstreams should help a lot.  I've only used my JVC's in an office atmoshpere though.  I'd say they offer about 75 to 80% isolation of your average BA.  I thought I'd be able to hear my office phone ring (it's right in front of my face) and I get so involved in the music, I still miss calls.

 

[alphaman]

Quote:

Those slipstreams should help a lot.  I've only used my JVC's in an office atmoshpere though.  I'd say they offer about 75 to 80% isolation of your average BA.  I thought I'd be able to hear my office phone ring (it's right in front of my face) and I get so involved in the music, I still miss calls.

Wind noise is one type of noise. But there are other annoying infiltrations, too: traffic, office equip. you note, etc. High-frequency components are hard to attenuate IAC because the waves can literally slip thru the smallest openings.
 

 

[munkyballz]

Quote:

Munkey: (and sorry to go off-topic) but about those  FX-700s ... I've heard their isolation stinks. Do you/anyone know of ways of improving it? I mean ala Sensorcom (or similar)...
 

Yeah, their isolation isn't the greatest.  I mean when you plug them in and you hear the music and its glory, you don't notice much, but for sure, they don't seal as well as the SM3s or most other typical IEMs.  The sensorcoms and their deep insertion might help, but like shane and the others have said, the JVC's are vented, that combined with the fact the the FX700's like a bit of a loose seal to get their best, balanced sound, and you're out of luck.  Also due to their design and vents, they do leak noticeably more sound than typical IEMs, bordering on ear-bud-ish status, so maybe not the best choice in a quiet library or something.
 
But overall, yeah, I think those products you hot linked will help though.  They don't look very comfortable or stylish, however.   And unless you're doing something active, might look odd if you're sitting down at a Starbucks, the people next to you might throw some awkward glances your way and start looking around outside the window to see if they had missed a yellow short bus parking somewhere.  Just sayin'.

 

[Freefallr4545]

Quote:

Too polite ... that's exactly the adjective that came to mind as I made my way back from my usual bicycle/exercise outing -- an activity in which I use a DAP, headphone amp, and IEMs. Indeed, if one needs driving beat, pace and rhythm -- and one has heard IEMs better capable of these sonic attributes (IE8s, FX700, etc.) -- then these activities are much less enjoyable (and more chore-like) with the "wrong" cans. Not what I want.  In fact, I very rarely just listen to music/audio programming (i.e., for its own sake). If the source is good -- because of skill of musician(s) or composer(s); and/or the SQ capabilities of the conveying gear is exceptional -- then it should sneak up on me and distract me from whatever other mental activities I am concurrently multi-taking with (hey, this is the 21st century, and we've almost always got our plates full). I'm afraid the SM3 -- probably EarSonics in general -- are the wrong cans for my requirements. 
 
Munkey: (and sorry to go off-topic) but about those  FX-700s ... I've heard their isolation stinks. Do you/anyone know of ways of improving it? I mean ala Sensorcom (or similar)...
 
 

Alpha----If you tried them, Would you consider the 535's too polite also. Man I would love to try those tips on my 535's. Seem to be hard to find however
 

 

[alphaman]

Quote:

Alpha----If you tried them, Would you consider the 535's too polite also. Man I would love to try those tips on my 535's. Seem to be hard to find however

I have the 530s. Can't stand 'em, after over 2.5 yrs of IE8 use, and think they are lost cause -- uh, no matter which tip (including custom molds) one may fit on to them. (Heck, even the older E2C and freebie Teclast R8s that came with my T51 DAP are better than the 530s, IMHO of course) .
Dunno about IEM brands/models I haven't heard (like the much acclaimed W4s, UEs, A-T, Monster, Ortofon, etc.) ... but despite my overall disappointment with EarSonics SM3v2 (and more's a comin' as the burn-in process does not seem to be helping that much; and I'm hearing more stuff that I don't like or stuff that the device is lacking) IEM technology has come a long way. The SM3s are way, WAY better than SE530s.

 

[alphaman]

Quote:

But overall, yeah, I think those products you hot linked will help though.  They don't look very comfortable or stylish, however.   And unless you're doing something active, might look odd if you're sitting down at a Starbucks, the people next to you might throw some awkward glances your way and start looking around outside the window to see if they had missed a yellow short bus parking somewhere.  Just sayin'.

"Stylish"? .... LOL! ... nothing "stylish" about one's BO/sweaty stench generated during a good workout, either.
"Just sayin'."
+++++
Talk to Tyll of Headroom about "style" ...

 

[munkyballz]

damn.  that's one sexy beast.
 
i doubt any poster here has any where near his swag.  i'd trade some of my jawnz for just 1/2 of it, but i know it would be useless since original swag of that magnitude can never be replicated.