[MrSlim]

Quote:

I am currently using an E-mu 0202 with a new MacBook Air.
 
Unlike with my Sony laptop, I have been unable to output 24 bit/192kHz files natively via USB to the E-mu DAC from the Mac. I do so using asio and either JRiver or Foobar.
 
Is the Mac limited to 96kHz output via USB or do I need to use a different program or drivers to output a 24/192 signal over USB to the E-mu DAC?

According to the 0202 specs here: http://www.emu.com/products/product.asp?category=610&subcategory=611&product=15186&nav=technicalSpecifications there is no limitation on OSX on the USB port, as long as it is USB 2.0.  OSX (10.4.3 or better) core audio supports the USB 2.0 Audio spec completely.   Russ over at Twisted Pear is developing an XMOS based USB transport and is getting 24/192 out via USB with the native OS drivers (Linux/ALSA/MPD also supports USB Audio 2.0).  Looking forward to seeing how that beast is going to change things..
 

 

[Cankin]

 
Quote:

Quote:

I am currently using an E-mu 0202 with a new MacBook Air.
 
Unlike with my Sony laptop, I have been unable to output 24 bit/192kHz files natively via USB to the E-mu DAC from the Mac. I do so using asio and either JRiver or Foobar.
 
Is the Mac limited to 96kHz output via USB or do I need to use a different program or drivers to output a 24/192 signal over USB to the E-mu DAC?

According to the 0202 specs here: http://www.emu.com/products/product.asp?category=610&subcategory=611&product=15186&nav=technicalSpecifications there is no limitation on OSX on the USB port, as long as it is USB 2.0.  OSX (10.4.3 or better) core audio supports the USB 2.0 Audio spec completely.   Russ over at Twisted Pear is developing an XMOS based USB transport and is getting 24/192 out via USB with the native OS drivers (Linux/ALSA/MPD also supports USB Audio 2.0).  Looking forward to seeing how that beast is going to change things..
 

 

Synchronization
 

Internal crystal sync at 44.1, 48, 88.2, 96, 176.4, 192kHz

* Macintosh analog operation up to 96kHz only at this time.
 

 

[MrSlim]

oops , my bad.. thanks for the correction..

 

[JRunior]

Having the E-MU 0404, I can tell you it's made a nice improvement in sound for my setup.  I'd assume if the components are the same in the 0204 it's a rock solid product!  Hope you enjoy it.  I might try a different DAC in the future but I don't see myself doing that anytime soon and especially not until I get the required equipment to do room measurements; I'm well aware of confirmation bias which I unfortunately believe plague the Audiophile community. 

 

[authistic]

Will the 0204 USB be able to drive 600 Ohms phones like DT880 to very high volumes?
 
Looking for something like this, because at the moment I am using a stereo ampifiler, connected with my onboard sound via cinch.
 
lg

 

[infinitesymphony]

Quote:

Will the 0204 USB be able to drive 600 Ohms phones like DT880 to very high volumes?

Here are the headphone amp specs for the 0204:
 
Maximum Output Power: 16mW
Output impedance: 22ohms
 
So, you can safely assume that the headphone amp would not be enough for your headphones. For comparison, the Asus Xonar STX puts out 200 mW @ 62 ohms with its internal headphone amp.

 

[dsnyder]

Howdy,
 
This has certainly be an interesting thread.  
 
Like many here, I have not purchased the E-MU 0204 USB yet, but I do have the older 0404 USB.  If the 0204 USB sounds at least as good as the 0404, it will make a great addition to just about anyone's kit.  I've not tried my 0404 with a Mac, but the manuals still say that 176.4/192 kHz operation is only supported on Windows.  Both interfaces offer excellent value for money.  If you don't need MIDI and S/PDIF in's and out's, 48V phantom power, and balanced variable outputs, the 0204 is the way to go.  I do wish that there was an external power option for the 0204.  Running it on USB bus power can't possibly help sound quality, but using an audiophile grade USB cable with good separation between power and signal lines should help.  I've said it on another thread, but I'll repeat it here:  the E-MU 0204 USB is probably the least expensive decent sounding way to add native 24-bit, 176.4/192kHz playback to your (Windows based) computer audio system.  As a bonus, you can use its ADC feature to record your vinyl and SACDs.  
 
As for comparing the E-MU audio interfaces to the likes of Grace Design, Benchmark, Wyred 4 Sound, Weiss, dCS, and so on...well, I think that's interesting.  Theories on which should or could sound better are not as interesting as reports of actual listening experiences...ideally A/B experiences in the same playback system.  One would certainly hope that a $1,500 DAC sounds noticeably better than a $129 DAC.  Ten times better?  Probably not.  A Ferrari 458 Italia does not go ten times as fast as a Hyundai Genesis.  It's probably not ten times as fun to drive (I have no experience to share...anyone care to report?).  The reality is that folks who are in the market for a ~$250k sports car are unlikely to seriously consider alternatives in the $25k price range and vice versa.  The same is true of DACs.
 
A far more interesting comparison might be the sound quality of the E-MU 0204 USB vs. the HRT Music Streamer II, the NuForce Icon uDAC-2, or even the M-Audio Transit, for example.  These can't match the E-MU's functionality, but if all you're looking for is playback capability, they are worth considering.  Cheers.
 
-- David

 

[3X0]

Quote:

As for comparing the E-MU audio interfaces to the likes of Grace Design, Benchmark, Wyred 4 Sound, Weiss, dCS, and so on...well, I think that's interesting.  Theories on which should or could sound better are not as interesting as reports of actual listening experiences...ideally A/B experiences in the same playback system.  One would certainly hope that a $1,500 DAC sounds noticeably better than a $129 DAC.  Ten times better?  Probably not.  A Ferrari 458 Italia does not go ten times as fast as a Hyundai Genesis.  It's probably not ten times as fun to drive (I have no experience to share...anyone care to report?).  The reality is that folks who are in the market for a ~$250k sports car are unlikely to seriously consider alternatives in the $25k price range and vice versa.  The same is true of DACs.
 
-- David

 
Scientifically-conducted testing indicates that level-matched DACs don't make a difference.
 
If anything the "high-end" crap aren't really DACs, but sound processors. I'd be worried about what kinds of horrible things they do to the poor signal. They might sound "better" in the sense that they don't provide a genuinely accurate, precise representation of the signal, nevermind volume levels and psychological phenomena affecting the listener. I'd take the E-MU over them any day of the week.
 
I think the thing that hurts the E-MU 0204 is that its price is awfully close to that of a second-hand 0404 USB.

 

[dsnyder]

Hello,
 
Quote:

Scientifically-conducted testing indicates that level-matched DACs don't make a difference.

Perhaps.  I have not encountered published reports of such studies from credible sources.  In any case, this is contrary to my personal experience and I suspect to the experiences of most members of this forum.  If different DACs don't make an audible difference in your system, that's cool.  However, it's somewhat less cool for one to suggest that different high quality DACs dont't make a difference to me in my system or that my experience is not valid because it's different from theirs.  Just a thought..and apologizes if I have misunderstood.  Cheers.
 
-- David

 

[RonaldDumsfeld]

This looks like a timely update to the E-MU range.
 
Potential customers might also care to consider this direct competitor
 
FocusRite Sapphire 6. http://www.focusrite.com/products/saffire/saffire_6_usb/Specifications_/#Specifications_
 
It's got slightly more flexible output routing options and comes with a better software bundle.
 
Stuff like the mic pre amps and headphone amp on devices like this might be slightly suspect compared to more expensive units but I'll eat my shorts if they don't provide a clean and transparent AD/DA facility.
 
As far as 'sound quality' goes these devices are different from loudspeakers, headphone, cartridges and the like. They have a maximum quality. Transparent to the discerning human auditory system. If you are the sort of bloke who hears differences in different brands of USB cable then DACs might sound different. Otherwise - probably not - and even if you did it would be monumentally dwarfed by spending a fraction of the extra on better transducer and/or room treatment.  

 

[scompton]

Someone, Tomb if I remember correctly, measured crosstalk in the 0404 USB's mini TRS output.  I don't know if it was audible.  He didn't measure any in the 2 jack output.
 
I really like the attenuator for the line out signal with the 0404 USB.  I can't really live without it because almost every amp I've tried has too much gain.  If I use the straight line out, I rarely get an amps volume knob past 8 o'clock. 

 

[3X0]

Quote:

Hello,
 

Perhaps.  I have not encountered published reports of such studies from credible sources.  In any case, this is contrary to my personal experience and I suspect to the experiences of most members of this forum.  If different DACs don't make an audible difference in your system, that's cool.  However, it's somewhat less cool for one to suggest that different high quality DACs dont't make a difference to me in my system or that my experience is not valid because it's different from theirs.  Just a thought..and apologizes if I have misunderstood.  Cheers.
 
-- David

Browse Sound Science or AVS Forums and you'll find tons of useful information and references. Beyond that, there have been no scientifically-sound studies published that suggest otherwise. This does not necessarily support the fact of DACs sounding the same, but at the very least show a lack of sufficiency for the contrariwise "belief" and make the belief of this audiophile "belief" irrational.
 
I'm saying that the differences you heard are completely down to mismatched levels or a defective electronic component. On a less strict level, on the infinitesimally small probability that it is not down to either of the aforementioned factors, the "high quality" DAC is doing "filtering" and horrible things to the signal.
 
I have a $1200 DAC that I bought when I was drinking the same kool-aid and pulling your same strawman arguments, and I know I should've gone with something less than 10% of the price.

 

[dsnyder]

Howdy,
 
Quote:

I'm saying that the differences you heard are completely down to mismatched levels or a defective electronic component. On a less strict level, on the infinitesimally small probability that it is not down to either of the aforementioned factors, the "high quality" DAC is doing "filtering" and horrible things to the signal.

You have an interesting opinion regarding how these differences in sound among DACs could be explained.  While I respect your opinion and your right to express it here or anywhere else, head-fi.org seems like a weird choice of fora to express it so strongly.  It's like logging into a Wine Aficionados' forum and posting about how the chemical properties of wine are no different at 45 degrees then they are at 65 degrees, therefore it's scientifically impossible for serving temperature to affect taste.  There are better analogies; someone help me out here!  LOL.
 
This is a "high-end personal audio" form.  We're all here because we choose to be.  Most of us really like DACs.  This is an exciting time to be involved in this hobby.  We get excited when a new DAC hits the marketplace and has the potential to advance the state of the art in digital music playback.  It's kind-of a downer when you show up and tell us that all DACs sound the same and that our experience can never be improved beyond where it is today--that the leading high-end DACs do "horrible things to the signal" instead of providing a glimpse into what will be possible at more accessible price-points in the future.
 
You are obviously a well respected contributer here, and I truly believe that you mean well.  It sounds like you may have been burned by your DAC purchase experiences and hope to save the rest of us from the same frustration.  This is an honorable thing to do, but from what I've read, the vast majority of folks here are really digging their new DACs and what these things have done to enhance their enjoyment of music.  While it's possible that we're deluded, please just let us have our fun.  
 
-- David

 

[dsnyder]

Quote:

If you are the sort of bloke who hears differences in different brands of USB cable then DACs might sound different. Otherwise - probably not - and even if you did it would be monumentally dwarfed by spending a fraction of the extra on better transducer and/or room treatment.  

Haha.  I can't argue with that!  Even moving loudspeakers an inch or two can make a more noticeable difference to the sound of a playback system than swapping out a DAC (or USB cable, for that matter).
 
The qualities of these types of changes are different though.  Improvements to a music playback system are multi-dimensional and have the capacity to build on one another.  A better DAC will often make the enhancements introduced by better transducers (headphones or loudspeakers)...well, better.  It's all part of the fun of this hobby!
 
Back to the original topic of this thread...although it was apparently not designed with our purpose in mind, the Creative E-MU 0204 USB is a fine entry point into high resolution digital audio playback.  It's not a device for the faint of heart since there are drivers to setup, ASIO plug-ins to install and configure, latency timings to fiddle with, etc., but once one gets all of that dialed in (and assuming the sound is >= 0404 USB), it's all well worth it.  There are more purpose-built alternatives with fewer features that are a bit easier to setup, but I'm glad to see that Creative is still investing in this product line.  Cheers.
 
-- David

 

[Eric_C]

FWIW, 3X0 I value your analysis of the supposed differences between DACs from both your personal experience and a survey of the studies out there. And dsnyder, I think many "seasoned" members of Head-Fi might do well to learn from your reasoned preference to agree to disagree.
 
3X0, it's heartening to read that you consider expensive DACs an unwise investment for accuracy (or perhaps we might call it audio fidelity). In your opinion, the DAC in my M-Audio FireWire interface should be fine? As would the built-in DAC on a MacBook Pro?